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Old 05-08-2012, 08:44   #1
Dragline
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Gold, Silver other PMs taking a major dump today

Looks like a spiraling downward trend that could continue into June.

Lower crude oil prices and strengthening U.S. dollar are apparently helping drive metal prices down so far today.

Short term not looking good for PMs currently.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:46   #2
Dennis in MA
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Can't be. Economic uncertainty means that metals go up.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:25   #3
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The socialist victories in France and Greece mean the world economy is all but healed and we have nothing to fear from future financial collapse.

Nobody needs gold and silver now. The future is bright. All is well.

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Old 05-08-2012, 09:27   #4
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Can't be. Economic uncertainty means that metals go up.
They already went up and that train left the station a few years back.

Crude and gold go together. Crude is down as the markets realize they have been lying about the unemployment numbers to prop up a certain person.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:27   #5
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As the prophet Gomer routinely said, "Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!" Sgt. Carter and company never seemed to appreciate the words of the prophet. No surprise.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:33   #6
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Yeahbut, they tell me that when bad economic news comes out, gold ALWAYS goes up. Now you've introduced ANOTHER sub-rule to me. It's almost like you are saying that it depends on what investors want or fear and that it might not accurately represent the true cost.

Nahhhh, can't be. Buy gold - it always goes up.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:29   #7
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Originally Posted by Dennis in MA View Post
Yeahbut, they tell me that when bad economic news comes out, gold ALWAYS goes up. Now you've introduced ANOTHER sub-rule to me. It's almost like you are saying that it depends on what investors want or fear and that it might not accurately represent the true cost.

Nahhhh, can't be. Buy gold - it always goes up.
Well they always tell you about the economies of scale too. Only when you reach the masters level do you learn the rule of dis-economies of scale. (larger scale of production leads to an Increase in product price)

ETA: I believe the price of copper is suffering from this now.
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:58   #8
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Well they always tell you about the economies of scale too. Only when you reach the masters level do you learn the rule of dis-economies of scale. (larger scale of production leads to an Increase in product price)
Economy of scale is about costs, not prices. Those two things are not the same.

EDITED TO ADD: that is not to say that diseconomy of scale doesn't exist. It does, and it can add to per-unit costs when an organization gets large enough. I was trying to be precise. Too many people don't know the difference between prices and costs.

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Old 05-09-2012, 12:49   #9
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Originally Posted by Dennis in MA View Post
Yeahbut, they tell me that when bad economic news comes out, gold ALWAYS goes up. Now you've introduced ANOTHER sub-rule to me. It's almost like you are saying that it depends on what investors want or fear and that it might not accurately represent the true cost.

Nahhhh, can't be. Buy gold - it always goes up.
I just made up that rule like the talking heads do every day on TV to explain the daily market moves when in reality they have no idea unless they are Soros or Niederhoffer.

The rule is there is no rule.

Gold is money but to invest you want your money circulating; gold is the exact opposite as it just sits there.

I salute those who went all in gold at $289; it is all so crystal clear now but I did not predict that the Government would act in such a fiscally reckless manner.

To the gold bugs – if Romney wins dump gold. Romney likes to fire people. Expect fiscal restraint.
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Old 05-09-2012, 15:01   #10
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I just made up that rule like the talking heads do every day on TV to explain the daily market moves when in reality they have no idea unless they are Soros or Niederhoffer.

The rule is there is no rule.

Gold is money but to invest you want your money circulating; gold is the exact opposite as it just sits there.

I salute those who went all in gold at $289; it is all so crystal clear now but I did not predict that the Government would act in such a fiscally reckless manner.

To the gold bugs – if Romney wins dump gold. Romney likes to fire people. Expect fiscal restraint.
Don't count on it. Do you know who Romney's biggest campaign donor is? Goldman Sachs. Do you know who Romney's biggest campaign donor is? Goldman Sachs. Banks are playing both sides.

EDIT: I mistyped that. Goldman Sachs is not Obama's top donor, just one of the top.

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Old 05-14-2012, 21:53   #11
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To the gold bugs – if Romney wins dump gold. Romney likes to fire people. Expect fiscal restraint.
Sure. You apparently have no idea the depth of the problems nor the resistance to real change that he will meet (IF he even tries in the first place).

http://usdebtclock.org/

Didn't it seem like just a few months ago the debt passed $14 trillion? We're now closing in on $16 trillion.

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Old 05-17-2012, 23:16   #12
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To the gold bugs – if Romney wins dump gold. Romney likes to fire people. Expect fiscal restraint.
Even if true, the US is only a small part of world gold demand. I will vote for Romney and think he will do less damage than Obama, but I don't expect real structural change, even Reagan couldn't do that. Any real reform proposals will be met with riots in the street like Greece, by people who vote for a living.
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Old 05-10-2012, 17:26   #13
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Yeahbut, they tell me that when bad economic news comes out, gold ALWAYS goes up
Only if said bad news involves the dilution or devaluation of a national currency. Think Quantitative Easing III IV V etc.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:35   #14
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Where is that Gold vs S&P 500 thread again?

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Old 05-08-2012, 09:57   #15
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:45   #16
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Down $40 and $0.75 are not too bad, there have been days when they dropped $100 and $4.00.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:28   #17
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Precious metals retain relative buying power. If the buying power of the dollar increases their price goes down. If the dollar inflates, their price goes up. Same with any commodity really.

Of course with demand they'll also fluctuate relative to the market to some degree. Gold is probably a bit inflated right now, which is why some folks are going to Silver and Copper as a more stable PM. They won't spike as much, but unless you're trying to play the market for short term gains, something with long term staying power to retain wealth in the event of major inflation or market crash, is the real value of PMs.

Of course unless you're seriously expecting an economic crash in which the dollar will crease to be accepted as currency, a mutual fund will get you better results, since it would both compensate for inflation, and grow with interest. Most people just aren't patient enough to ride them out though.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:49   #18
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Eventually the gold bubble had to burst. The events of the 2008 collapse and the Obama presidency just prolonged it a few years.

Just like housing prices, its got to come down to normal levels. You can't substain over a half a million dollar average homes prices and plus $1,500 an ounce for gold forever.

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Old 05-08-2012, 13:06   #19
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When the market tanks, some people need to liquidate other assets to cover their positions…margin calls, etc.

so when a bunch of folks sell en masse, more supply available on the market depresses prices.
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:38   #20
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You can't substain ... $1,500 an ounce for gold forever.
Sure you can. Just like $3 gas can be sustained forever. It ain't ever going back to $1.50 again. Gold is priced in dollars, just like gas is. The dollar is going to continue to fall, not magically rise. Been to the grocery store lately?

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Old 05-09-2012, 12:46   #21
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Sure you can. Just like $3 gas can be sustained forever. It ain't ever going back to $1.50 again. Gold is priced in dollars, just like gas is. The dollar is going to continue to fall, not magically rise. Been to the grocery store lately?
I'm sure they said that about $2 gas in during Jimmy Carter's term

For crying out loud, 2009 even in the Obama administration where the national aver gas was well under $3 a gallon. 2009 it was $1.84, 2010 it was 2.78.

You want it $3 gas for another 4 years, don't vote for Romney. Pretty much LIKE GOLD people look at the current big numbers and not what the price was just a few years ago and historically over time.

Gas was under $2 between 1981 and 2007, then it spiked near the end of GW Bush's term, and it spiked again in 2010 to present.

Just a few years ago gas was selling for $1.60 and gold was $400 an ounce.....but ,but....you should put your money in Oil and Gold last year because Oil was selling for $120 a barrel and Gold was selling for $1800 an ounce.

Now where are you

If you bought a Barrel of Oil and a ounce of gold last year you would be down about $320. Way to protect your wealth.

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Old 05-09-2012, 08:54   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo Bagins View Post
Eventually the gold bubble had to burst. The events of the 2008 collapse and the Obama presidency just prolonged it a few years.

Just like housing prices, its got to come down to normal levels. You can't substain over a half a million dollar average homes prices and plus $1,500 an ounce for gold forever.
BB - are you calling the bubble here and now? Let me know because I'd like to bookmark this.

Nothing goes straight up (though gold has done a pretty remarkable job of it so far). This is just a correction in the bull market. Buying opportunity.

Interestingly enough, Marc Faber just called this.
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Old 05-08-2012, 13:37   #23
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I'm so glad you guys are around to show me how these things work.
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Old 05-08-2012, 14:28   #24
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That is just the paper price.

Very few are selling actual physical gold and silver.

The market manipulation continues in the pm markets with naked shorting. Nothing new here. Just a good time to stack some more. Get it while you can.
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Old 05-08-2012, 14:35   #25
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That is just the paper price.

Very few are selling actual physical gold and silver.

The market manipulation continues in the pm markets with naked shorting. Nothing new here. Just a good time to stack some more. Get it while you can.
This is truth. It's nice and convenient how Apmex raises their fees to compensate. When silver was "$8", you couldn't get physical near that.
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