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Old 05-12-2012, 19:19   #1
barbedwiresmile
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NYC 'Stop & Frisk'

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/07...arp-criticism/

Thoughts?
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Old 05-12-2012, 19:25   #2
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Terry stop. Google.
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Old 05-12-2012, 19:42   #3
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Terry stop. Google.
To be fair, what they're doing doesn't seem to fully fit the bill.

For a Terry stop you need to:

Identify some activity that is out of the ordinary is occuring/has occured

The suspect is connected with said suspicious activity

And that the suspicious activity is related to a crime.

Without being in NY and witnessing their "Stop and Frisk" in person, it's hard to armchair quarterback. I guess you could really stretch just about anything to fit that criteria, but I wouldn't want to hang my career on that. Everyone's definition of "reasonable suspicion" is different as well, which is all you really need here.
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:05   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stang_Man View Post
To be fair, what they're doing doesn't seem to fully fit the bill.

For a Terry stop you need to:

Identify some activity that is out of the ordinary is occuring/has occured

The suspect is connected with said suspicious activity

And that the suspicious activity is related to a crime.
You mean like where it says:

Quote:
“I understand how people may feel the way they do about Stop and Frisk, but what’s always left out of the equation is that we target those that fit a description,” Mullins said. “Our role of stopping someone is based on an incident report from someone in that particular neighborhood.”
That seems to fit with these being Terry stops.

They complain that the majority of people being stopped are black or Hispanic. I'd say, take a look at the FBI Uniform Crime Reports and you'll see why - any law enforcement in New York will have the same "racist" result.
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Old 05-12-2012, 19:50   #5
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Terry stop. Google.
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7073895/terry-stop
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Old 05-12-2012, 19:55   #6
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Ex NYPD here;

Conducted THOUSANDS of Stop Question and Frisks

Those lead to hundreds of arrests

Subjected to dozens of Mapp hearings

Never lost one

Article states "random" frisks are being conducted

Author should get off his ass, go out on the street with the cops and see what's what

NO ONE is jeopardizing his career by going out and tossing the public without justification
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Old 05-13-2012, 03:28   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmac45 View Post
Ex NYPD here;

Conducted THOUSANDS of Stop Question and Frisks

Those lead to hundreds of arrests

Subjected to dozens of Mapp hearings

Never lost one

Article states "random" frisks are being conducted

Author should get off his ass, go out on the street with the cops and see what's what

NO ONE is jeopardizing his career by going out and tossing the public without justification
So, the searches in the article ONLY happen when you have probable cause? That's a relief.
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Old 05-12-2012, 20:06   #8
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One Mapp hearing in particular stands out in my mind because I never spoke a word;

Get sworn in.

First question by defense counsel; "Lieutenant, why did you stop my client on the night of ______ __ 19__?

I opened my folder and handed out three packets of stapled paper, one each to the judge, defense counsel and prosecutor.

Each package contained a copy of the SEVENTEEN previous arrest reports for the same defendant, ALL for possession with intent to sell. FIFTEEN of which were in the same building courtyard that he was collared in on the present case. Vital entries highlighted (peigree, charges, and locations).

Defense counsel begins gagging and fighting for air.

Prosecutor is looking worried.

Judge is trying to suppress a giggle.

Short recess was called for the defense counsel to compose himself.

Upon going back on the record the Judge stated I was dismissed and the evidence was admitted.

Prosecutor warned me never to try that crap again.

Perp took the plea before trial.


Stop, Question and Frisk, it's good for the soul.
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Old 05-12-2012, 20:15   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmac45 View Post
One Mapp hearing in particular stands out in my mind because I never spoke a word;

Get sworn in.

First question by defense counsel; "Lieutenant, why did you stop my client on the night of ______ __ 19__?

I opened my folder and handed out three packets of stapled paper, one each to the judge, defense counsel and prosecutor.

Each package contained a copy of the SEVENTEEN previous arrest reports for the same defendant, ALL for possession with intent to sell. FIFTEEN of which were in the same building courtyard that he was collared in on the present case. Vital entries highlighted (peigree, charges, and locations).

Defense counsel begins gagging and fighting for air.

Prosecutor is looking worried.

Judge is trying to suppress a giggle.

Short recess was called for the defense counsel to compose himself.

Upon going back on the record the Judge stated I was dismissed and the evidence was admitted.

Prosecutor warned me never to try that crap again.

Perp took the plea before trial.


Stop, Question and Frisk, it's good for the soul.
Glad it worked out for you, but I was under the ass-umption that you couldn't use criminal history or prior arrests as PC, does that not work for reasonable suspicion?

Don't worry, I agree he was likely a turd, and still is to this day- and I also don't think it takes any stretch of the imagination to get the bracelets on someone like that
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:50   #10
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Glad it worked out for you, but I was under the ass-umption that you couldn't use criminal history or prior arrests as PC, does that not work for reasonable suspicion?
You can't use a prior criminal conviction in court in general, but if you know a convicted child molester is hanging out at the kiddie pool by himself, that certainly becomes part of reasonable suspicion that some crime is about to happen.



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Old 05-13-2012, 07:12   #11
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Originally Posted by DonGlock26 View Post
You can't use a prior criminal conviction in court in general, but if you know a convicted child molester is hanging out at the kiddie pool by himself, that certainly becomes part of reasonable suspicion that some crime is about to happen.



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That's a very good point!
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Old 05-13-2012, 03:42   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmac45 View Post
Prosecutor warned me never to try that crap again.
So it was justifiable, maybe?
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Old 05-13-2012, 15:35   #13
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Stop, Question and Frisk, it's good for the soul.
Exercising one's right to remain silent is also good for the soul, but bad for police revenue streams.

So your story right there basically states that you stopped someone and searched them solely because they have a record? And you're proud of that?

Best thing one can do when approached by police in any form is to just remain silent. No one ever has to talk to a cop. Ever. Some orders must be followed, such as license and registration in a traffic stop but no questions need to be answered ever. Some states have "stop and ID" laws (not mine) but even then you don't have to answer any questions. If people would just STFU and exercise their rights these sorts of profiling tactics would go away when they stop being successful.

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Why do the dissenters never cite court rulings?
Just because one state employee rubber stamps the conduct of another state employee, doesn't make it correct. Besides, the dissenters very survival doesn't usually circle around knowing what rulings to cite to justify arrests that produce revenue streams. Dissenters don't have a personal interest in the outcome so why spend time digging thru case law? Cops get the rulings handed to them in memos at briefings so don't act like you're sitting there pouring through case law yourself.

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Old 05-13-2012, 15:50   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G19G20 View Post
So your story right there basically states that you stopped someone and searched them solely because they have a record? And you're proud of that?
.
NO NO NO. There was much more to that stop and arrest than that, it's just that I am not in the business of discussing narcotics operations on open forums and educating whatever sundry users/dealers might be reading these threads.

Sorry to disappoint you.
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Old 05-12-2012, 20:17   #15
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It was a risk, but I knew the Judge well.

I never did try that again but it sure was enjoyable to get away with it once...........
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Old 05-12-2012, 20:19   #16
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It was a risk, but I knew the Judge well.

I never did try that again but it sure was enjoyable to get away with it once...........
Thats awesome!

I'm sure if you observed him long enough, he would have easily given you an in. Criminals, not the brightest in the bunch.

Good work!
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Old 05-12-2012, 20:56   #17
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Thats awesome!

I'm sure if you observed him long enough, he would have easily given you an in. Criminals, not the brightest in the bunch.

Good work!
The smart ones don't sell drugs on street corners. They peddle influence in D.C.
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Old 05-12-2012, 21:01   #18
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The smart ones don't sell drugs on street corners. They peddle influence in D.C.
Or peddle drugs for the government.
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Old 05-25-2012, 05:23   #19
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Originally Posted by seanmac45 View Post
It was a risk, but I knew the Judge well.

I never did try that again but it sure was enjoyable to get away with it once...........
It's nice to know that judges are willing to waive the rules of evidence when a LEO 'knows them.'
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:45   #20
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Quote:
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It's nice to know that judges are willing to waive the rules of evidence when a LEO 'knows them.'

I call it a Judge who knew a case based upon probable cause when he saw one.

That was the end of the hearing.

Sorry if it disappoints you.
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