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Old 09-12-2012, 22:22   #1
Altaris
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The Top 10 Reasons I Donít Believe in God

One of my friends emailed this to me today. It is a pretty long article, but I found it well done. Many of the points made are things we see going on here constantly.


http://churchandstate.org.uk/2012/04...elieve-in-god/
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:24   #2
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A very well thought out list of arguments. Rational, logical and completely reasonable arguments that should, at the very least, make a person stop and think.

All of which have been repeated here over and over again with little to no effect. At least no effect on those that regularly post.

Hopefully they may be working on those that just read.
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Old 09-23-2012, 12:36   #3
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A very well thought out list of arguments. Rational, logical and completely reasonable arguments that should, at the very least, make a person stop and think.
you'd think so...

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All of which have been repeated here over and over again with little to no effect. At least no effect on those that regularly post.
Some people must have thought you meant "stop thinking" instead of "stop to think"...

Randy
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:29   #4
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Logic has no place where faith is accepted without question.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:41   #5
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I am a Christian. I appreciate these ideas. You are not going to talk me out of believing in God, and I am not going to talk you into it, but I am curious (as in I am not trying to stump you) as to your view on the where the "stuff" of the universe came from, and how life started. I am a theistic evolutionist and believe God used directed evolution after He created the stuff of the universe and life. Also, what about information theory...how does information i.e. the data encoded in DNA evolve? Again, I am just interested in your solution to these problems. I respect you regardless of your views.
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:49   #6
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but I am curious (as in I am not trying to stump you) as to your view on the where the "stuff" of the universe came from,
Well we are learning that simple elements like those that make up stars can be created from pure energy. With enough energy you can manufacture the building blocks of stars. And within stars other more complex elements can be created. So it's a bit of a chain reaction. The "stuff" didn't need to be there first. Just energy. As for where the energy comes from... I'm currently reading a book by Lawrence Krauss called "A Universe From Nothing". I'm trying to wrap my head around it but it seems they are close to understanding how particles can simply just appear from nothing. That "Nothing" is some how unstable and will always give rise to "Something"... I know it sounds crazy. I'm not gonna even try to explain it because as of yet... I don't understand it myself. But I'm learning.

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and how life started.
We are very close to recreating abiogenesis in a lab. In very basic terms we are close to understanding how, in the right conditions, RNA can simply come into being on its own via chemistry. And RNA is the foundation of DNA. And so on and so on. Apparently life is a chemical reaction and you just need the right mixture of ingredients to get it rolling. Why here? all the conditions are right. If they weren't we wouldn't be here to question it. And it's probably happening on other planets that just so happen to be in the right place with the right grocery list of ingredients.

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what about information theory...how does information i.e. the data encoded in DNA evolve?
I'd enjoy reading what some of our more learned members have to offer on that as well.

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Old 09-13-2012, 10:03   #7
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Well we are learning that simple elements like those that make up stars can be created from pure energy. With enough energy you can manufacture the building blocks of stars. And within stars other more complex elements can be created. So it's a bit of a chain reaction. The "stuff" didn't need to be there first. Just energy. As for where the energy comes from... I'm currently reading a book by Lawrence Krauss called "A Universe From Nothing". I'm trying to wrap my head around it but it seems they are close to understanding how particles can simply just appear from nothing. That "Nothing" is some how unstable and will always give rise to "Something"... I know it sounds crazy. I'm not gonna even try to explain it because as of yet... I don't understand it myself. But I'm learning.
...
Lawrence Krauss has a lot of stuff on youtube. I have generally leaned toward the cyclical model, because matter energy cannot be created or destroyed, only converted, as far as I know, and it answers the question of where matter/energy came from with, it's always been. Lawrence Krauss has made me reconsider that.
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:11   #8
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When you stand before God, tell him those 10 reasons.

(What I'd give to be a fly on the wall during that conversation.)
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:13   #9
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Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
When you stand before God, tell him those 10 reasons.

(What I'd give to be a fly on the wall during that conversation.)
The old fear tactic huh? Believe or face his WRATH! LOL. How silly.
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Old 09-23-2012, 20:29   #10
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When you stand before God, tell him those 10 reasons.

(What I'd give to be a fly on the wall during that conversation.)
If there is a god and I meet him/her on judgement day, I have a few questions.

1. Where did he/she come from?

2. If one religion is the correct religion, why do people who practice that religion have a definite advantage, live longer, not die painful deaths,......

3. Why have all the miracles happen a long long time ago? If god would just show up and do something.....
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:15   #11
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Lawrence Krauss has a lot of stuff on youtube. I have generally leaned toward the cyclical model, because matter energy cannot be created or destroyed, only converted, as far as I know, and it answers the question of where matter/energy came from with, it's always been. Lawrence Krauss has made me reconsider that.
It's bending my mind a little but I'm trying to consume as much of it as possible.
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:56   #12
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Originally Posted by ArrowJ View Post
I am a Christian. I appreciate these ideas. You are not going to talk me out of believing in God, and I am not going to talk you into it, but I am curious (as in I am not trying to stump you) as to your view on the where the "stuff" of the universe came from, and how life started. I am a theistic evolutionist and believe God used directed evolution after He created the stuff of the universe and life. Also, what about information theory...how does information i.e. the data encoded in DNA evolve? Again, I am just interested in your solution to these problems. I respect you regardless of your views.
I don't know. Not knowing does not mean a god did it.
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Old 09-13-2012, 17:28   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowJ View Post
I am a Christian. I appreciate these ideas. You are not going to talk me out of believing in God, and I am not going to talk you into it, but I am curious (as in I am not trying to stump you) as to your view on the where the "stuff" of the universe came from, and how life started. I am a theistic evolutionist and believe God used directed evolution after He created the stuff of the universe and life. Also, what about information theory...how does information i.e. the data encoded in DNA evolve? Again, I am just interested in your solution to these problems. I respect you regardless of your views.
We will never know all about creation there is to know. If time is infinite, no matter how far back we go, there will always be something before.
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Old 09-25-2012, 03:54   #14
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Originally Posted by ArrowJ View Post
I am a Christian. I appreciate these ideas. You are not going to talk me out of believing in God, and I am not going to talk you into it, but I am curious (as in I am not trying to stump you) as to your view on the where the "stuff" of the universe came from, and how life started. I am a theistic evolutionist and believe God used directed evolution after He created the stuff of the universe and life. Also, what about information theory...how does information i.e. the data encoded in DNA evolve? Again, I am just interested in your solution to these problems. I respect you regardless of your views.
What if the answer to both questions was "I don't know and nobody else does either"? That would not add a single shred of evidence to a religious explanation - the lack of an answer should mottivate one to look for the answer, but it is never an excuse to make up an answer.

However, the DNA one does have a good answer, complete with experiements recreating the start of it in laborastoris over the past 80 years or so. I even posted links to articles and documentaries you can watch on Netflix in another of these threads. One of them was an episode of Carl Sagan's Cosmos. Follow that with another excellent episode of Cosmos about how religion has held back science.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:54   #15
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The thing is, Arrow, that scientists can't explain what happened in the 'Before Time/Space.' Nor can they explain why quantum mechanics exposes so much absurdity at the building block level of the universe.

I for one believe that the answer to the debate between theists and humanists is simple: We are children, barely beginning to discern the truth.

Some theists are beginning to appreciate that the search for truth is not heresy.

That's a good thing. And many humanists are beginning to grasp the concept that the incredible complexity of the physical universe we are starting to understand points us to a spiritual (or at least metaphysical) puzzle that can't be ignored.

Again, we are barely beyond the infant stage in our understanding of the true nature of things. To bicker and argue about it is a toddler's game. We should all wonder (and wonder at) this amazing thing we call life.

Logic has its place, as does faith. We should all seek the truth - together.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:20   #16
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That's a good thing. And many humanists are beginning to grasp the concept that the incredible complexity of the physical universe we are starting to understand points us to a spiritual (or at least metaphysical) puzzle that can't be ignored.
Can you expand on this point with some examples?
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:48   #17
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Good read...sums up things pretty well.

~Bob
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:28   #18
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The thing is, Arrow, that scientists can't explain what happened in the 'Before Time/Space.' Nor can they explain why quantum mechanics exposes so much absurdity at the building block level of the universe.
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The atheists world is indeed a small and limited one.
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What amazes me is that compared to all that's knowable in this universe, mankind's total knowledge is less than one drop of water in all the world's oceans.


The Ekpyrotic Universe: Colliding Branes and the Origin of the Hot Big Bang - Justin Khoury (Princeton), Burt A. Ovrut (Univ of Pennsylvania), Paul J. Steinhardt (Princeton), Neil Turok (Cambridge)

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We propose a cosmological scenario in which the hot big bang universe is produced by the collision of a brane in the bulk space with a bounding orbifold plane, beginning from an otherwise cold, vacuous, static universe. The model addresses the cosmological horizon, flatness and monopole problems and generates a nearly scale-invariant spectrum of density perturbations without invoking superluminal expansion (inflation). The scenario relies, instead, on physical phenomena that arise naturally in theories based on extra dimensions and branes. As an example, we present our scenario predominantly within the context of heterotic M-theory. A prediction that distinguishes this scenario from standard inflationary cosmology is a strongly blue gravitational wave spectrum, which has consequences for microwave background polarization experiments and gravitational wave detectors.
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Old 09-30-2012, 08:48   #19
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The introduction to the article is ....
The following is an excerpt from ďWhy Are You Atheists So Angry? 99 Things That Piss Off the GodlessĒ by Greta Christina.

I have never known an angry Atheists ... this seems to be a new phenomena .... Atheists are among the most tolerant, slow to boil people IMO. Carl Sagan and Richard Dawkins are prime examples.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:42   #20
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The thing is, Arrow, that scientists can't explain what happened in the 'Before Time/Space.' Nor can they explain why quantum mechanics exposes so much absurdity at the building block level of the universe.

I for one believe that the answer to the debate between theists and humanists is simple: We are children, barely beginning to discern the truth.

Some theists are beginning to appreciate that the search for truth is not heresy.

That's a good thing. And many humanists are beginning to grasp the concept that the incredible complexity of the physical universe we are starting to understand points us to a spiritual (or at least metaphysical) puzzle that can't be ignored.

Again, we are barely beyond the infant stage in our understanding of the true nature of things. To bicker and argue about it is a toddler's game. We should all wonder (and wonder at) this amazing thing we call life.

Logic has its place, as does faith. We should all seek the truth - together.
I almost had a heart attack when I read your response. I wish ALL would adopt your line of thinking so far as getting along with one another........... DOC
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