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Old 09-22-2012, 21:00   #1
pcmanic
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Chamber support

Are the new Gen 4 .40 S&W chambers fully supported? I'd like to try some Buffalo Bore brand bullets but they warn not to shoot them in Gocks ....Rich
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Old 09-22-2012, 21:23   #2
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You are not going to get a fully supported barrel for a Glock, well at least not one that will function. There is going to be an area at the feed ramp that is not going to have full support, just the way it is. The later .40 glock barrels like in your Gen 4 have more support than the older .40 barrels. If it were me I would shoot them one a time and examine the brass. A small convex portion near the unsupported part of the chamber is normal.

If you get something that looks like the pic below you do not want to shoot any more.
General Glocking
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Old 09-23-2012, 00:26   #3
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No semi-automatic has a 100% fully supported chamber. Having one would render the pistol a single shot, hand fed weapon, as ammo would not feed from a magazine into the chamber. Some barrels have more chamber support than others, but the trade off is sometimes reliability with all ammo.
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Old 09-23-2012, 13:35   #4
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I, too, have wondered about the safety of using a hot .40 load from vendors such as BB, DT, Underwood (I know about the chrono results folks have seen from DT).

BB states on their website that Glock OEM barrels are not to be used with their ammo. DT posts results using Glocks, Underwood doesn't say. Are the +p designations from some manufacturers a true indication of pressures that exceed SAAMI specs, or are they a marketing strategy?

It has been my practice to stay away from .40 "+p" loadings.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:58   #5
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Originally Posted by avenues165 View Post
It has been my practice to stay away from .40 "+p" loadings.
There IS such a thing???
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:47   #6
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There IS such a thing???
There is No SAMMI specs for a 40 S&W + P ,so it would be a fly by the seat of the pants kind of thing,not something I'm interested in. SJ 40
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Old 09-23-2012, 13:50   #7
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Originally Posted by dkf View Post
You are not going to get a fully supported barrel for a Glock, well at least not one that will function. There is going to be an area at the feed ramp that is not going to have full support, just the way it is. The later .40 glock barrels like in your Gen 4 have more support than the older .40 barrels. If it were me I would shoot them one a time and examine the brass. A small convex portion near the unsupported part of the chamber is normal.

If you get something that looks like the pic below you do not want to shoot any more.
General Glocking
Yikes.

Is that spent case from a gun that you fired?
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Old 09-23-2012, 14:19   #8
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Originally Posted by dkf View Post
You are not going to get a fully supported barrel for a Glock, well at least not one that will function. There is going to be an area at the feed ramp that is not going to have full support, just the way it is. The later .40 glock barrels like in your Gen 4 have more support than the older .40 barrels. If it were me I would shoot them one a time and examine the brass. A small convex portion near the unsupported part of the chamber is normal.

If you get something that looks like the pic below you do not want to shoot any more.
General Glocking
I disagree. There are aftermarket that are fully supported and will function fine. It cause cause feeding problems. But it can be done. Most venders now just offer better support. Tig weld the ramp and recut it. U can get fully supported that way.
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Old 12-15-2012, 13:18   #9
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I disagree. There are aftermarket that are fully supported and will function fine. It cause cause feeding problems. But it can be done. Most venders now just offer better support. Tig weld the ramp and recut it. U can get fully supported that way.
Show me a fully supported aftermarket Glock barrel then. Maybe in a 1911 but not a Glock. You also contradict yourself saying the barrel will "function fine" and then say "can cause feeding problems". Which one is it. Sounds like you are talking out your rear. A gun that does not function reliablly is worthless to me in every application.

Last edited by dkf; 12-15-2012 at 13:20..
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Old 12-15-2012, 21:05   #10
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Originally Posted by dkf View Post
You are not going to get a fully supported barrel for a Glock, well at least not one that will function. There is going to be an area at the feed ramp that is not going to have full support, just the way it is. The later .40 glock barrels like in your Gen 4 have more support than the older .40 barrels. If it were me I would shoot them one a time and examine the brass. A small convex portion near the unsupported part of the chamber is normal.

If you get something that looks like the pic below you do not want to shoot any more.
General Glocking
I have never had a barrel, in a 1911 that required a chamber that much oversize, to function. Why does Glock?
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Old 12-15-2012, 21:37   #11
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I have never had a barrel, in a 1911 that required a chamber that much oversize, to function. Why does Glock?
That was not my pic. That pic was one of those hot "fully supported barrel only" 10mm loads shot out of an older 10mm barrel if memory serves me right.

Even the 1911 guys run into support issues trying to make major with .38super. The ramped 1911 barrel is about as close as I have seen to full support.
http://38super.net/Pages/Major.html
http://38super.net/Pages/supported.html

It is not that the older Glock barrels were oversized. They just were generous in the amount of chamfer at and around the top of the feed ramp to help ensure reliable feeding. Some guns have worse support than even the older Glocks.

Last edited by dkf; 12-15-2012 at 21:53..
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Old 12-18-2012, 17:02   #12
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If you get something that looks like the pic below you do not want to shoot any more.
General Glocking
A gun that produces fired cases that look like that, is a defective gun. Except Glock, by definition, I guess. If my cases looked like that, the Glock barrel would be changed to a KKM or equal. Actually, they did look like that, or worse. I was surprised it didn't blow out. New cases are wonderful.

There never has been a problem with Glocks in 9mm, as for the chamber support. I reckon they depend on the tapered case to feed properly. Awhile back, Glock sold some pistols, in the US that were proof marked, in Austria. I did a quick search, of GT and I didn't find any guns, other than 9mm that had Austrian proof. The only models, that I found, were G17 & 19. IMO, I don't think a 40 S&W, 10 mm or 45 ACP Glock will pass an Austrian proof. I would like to hear, if anyone has one.

The G21 that I got bulged cases from, was new in 1999, gen 3. No out of battery or defective ammo. The Glock chamber is just too big. I don't have the means to measure it, but I would bet, it won't pass the SAAMI spec. for chamber dimensions. I doubt that Glock ever ran a proof round through that pistol. I let my Son have it, with full cautions. I have plenty of other 45 ACP pistols to waste any money on an aftermarket barrel. I wasn't going to throw anymore good money after bad. Remington 45 ACP, from that same box fired, in a Colt 1911 with absolutely no noticeable expansion, at the base.

The 357 SIG seem to be alright. That's my favorite, anyway. The bottleneck case seems to take care of any feeding problem.

The 40 S&W seems to be a total crap shoot. I have seen pictures here that look like they have pretty much 100% case support and others with way too much brass case hanging out. I'm gonna be looking for an Austrian proofed Glock in 40 S&W or 10 mm. I'm beginning to wonder about the 45 ACP, the low pressure round, it is, also.

None of my Glocks are going to be high volume shooters, at least not by me, so I don't worry much about them.

I think that plastic is an improper choice of material to build a pistol with, except in 9mm. A 40 S&W, with something clamped on the rail will work, if the phase of the moon, or you hold your mouth just right. I do have several 40s and seem to have lucked out, with them. I won't tempt fate, by clamping a light on, though.

Believe it or not, that's just my opinion and I don't care to discuss this subject further here. Anyone that cares to, can prove it wrong.
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Old 12-18-2012, 17:26   #13
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A gun that produces fired cases that look like that, is a defective gun. Except Glock, by definition, I guess. If my cases looked like that, the Glock barrel would be changed to a KKM or equal. Actually, they did look like that, or worse. I was surprised it didn't blow out. New cases are wonderful.
Sounds you are not familer with the loads that produced the brass in the picture. Those were at or above max pressures and we do not know if there was any setback, overcharged or anything. I take it you are also not seasoned reloader with a knowledge of load development if so you would better understand what is going on there. It is why you develop loads to the barrel/gun and why the ammo manufacturer of the case in the picture recommended the better supported aftermarket barrel, the loads were developed for that barrel.

Quote:
The G21 that I got bulged cases from, was new in 1999, gen 3. No out of battery or defective ammo. The Glock chamber is just too big. I don't have the means to measure it, but I would bet, it won't pass the SAAMI spec. for chamber dimensions. I doubt that Glock ever ran a proof round through that pistol. I let my Son have it, with full cautions. I have plenty of other 45 ACP pistols to waste any money on an aftermarket barrel. I wasn't going to throw anymore good money after bad. Remington 45 ACP, from that same box fired, in a Colt 1911 with absolutely no noticeable expansion, at the base.
You cannot really get an idea what is going on by firing only one round however I understand why you did not go any further. I hope you at least sent that Glock off to Glock to be looked at. If I spent money on a gun that I suspected was not functioning properly I would send it back to the company. If their is a problem with the weapon I would hate to give it to a loved one and have them get hurt. Let the manufacturer spend the money to test it and make sure everything is up to spec, no reason for you to.

Every Glock barrel I have ever measured was right in the middle of the SAAMI specified size range. All were later barrels however. That said I find it hard to believe Glock or any other company would open themselves up to major liability and knowlingly make a barrel with a chamber outside of SAAMI specs. Of course that does not mean that defects do not get by. Glock was just generous with the relief at the feed ramp and around the end of the chamber.

As for polymer framed pistols it has been pretty well proven a good pistol can be made with it. Lots of other companies besides Glock make some very good plastic framed firearms.

I am sorry you had an issue with your Glock. No hard feelings due to this thread I hope. I was just interested in some of the specifics.

Last edited by dkf; 12-18-2012 at 17:28..
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Old 12-18-2012, 17:37   #14
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Sounds you are not familer with the loads that produced the brass in the picture. Those were at or above max pressures and we do not know if there was any setback, overcharged or anything. I take it you are also not seasoned reloader with a knowledge of load development if so you would better understand what is going on there. It is why you develop loads to the barrel/gun and why the ammo manufacturer of the case in the picture recommended the better supported aftermarket barrel, the loads were developed for that barrel.

You cannot really get an idea what is going on by firing only one round however I understand why you did not go any further. I hope you at least sent that Glock off to Glock to be looked at. If I spent money on a gun that I suspected was not functioning properly I would send it back to the company. If their is a problem with the weapon I would hate to give it to a loved one and have them get hurt. Let the manufacturer spend the money to test it and make sure everything is up to spec, no reason for you to.

Every Glock barrel I have ever measured was right in the middle of the SAAMI specified size range. All were later barrels however. That said I find it hard to believe Glock or any other company would open themselves up to major liability and knowlingly make a barrel with a chamber outside of SAAMI specs. Of course that does not mean that defects do not get by. Glock was just generous with the relief at the feed ramp and around the end of the chamber.

As for polymer framed pistols it has been pretty well proven a good pistol can be made with it. Lots of other companies besides Glock make some very good plastic framed firearms.

I am sorry you had an issue with your Glock. No hard feelings due to this thread I hope. I was just interested in some of the specifics.
Yep, inexperienced reloader.

I have had very good luck working up loads for my 454 Casull, 44 S&W MAG and most other common, popular rounds. Got started with that, around 1969.

Your quote: Lots of other companies besides Glock make some very good plastic framed firearms.

Cuts to the heart of the matter. My 45 H&K USP don't make bulged cases, ever. It's also, not a Glock, so you are correct.
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Old 12-18-2012, 17:37   #15
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Believe it or not, that's just my opinion and I don't care to discuss this subject further here. Anyone that cares to, can prove it wrong.

Done.
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Old 09-23-2012, 13:38   #16
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Underwood tests all their 10mm ammo in stock Glocks.
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Old 09-23-2012, 14:22   #17
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I just watched a vid showing Glock, Lonewolf, and a Storm Lake10 mm barrel and comparing the throat of each. They all covered the round exactly the same. The Glock was about 1/10th of a millimeter wider at the opening. Not a whole lot of difference.
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Old 09-23-2012, 14:47   #18
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Here's one of several pics I found comparing .40 cal barrels. Older (1998) would appear to be less supported:
General Glocking
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:48   #19
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Nice pics, I'll have to look at my '06 model

My 19 looks in between the 98 G23 and 09 LWD barrel barrel

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Old 12-15-2012, 21:40   #20
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Here's one of several pics I found comparing .40 cal barrels. Older (1998) would appear to be less supported:
General Glocking
LOL... I thought I was going to have to find that photo and re-post, but you beat me to it. Here's the money quote and a link to the whole article.

Quote:
I have long contended that Glock, who will never admit there was a chamber-support problem in the first place, made subtle changes to mitigate this problem. You take a look and decide for yourself.



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