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Old 09-30-2012, 18:09   #1
ABNAK
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Keyholing DoubleTap 357Sig

DoubleTap 357Sig rounds (*supposedly* 125gr Sierras but don't look like Sierras) that I personally chrono'd at 1452fps average. However, the ES was 154fps. Maybe that's why the ES was so high, not to mention the accuracy sucking?

What would cause a handgun bullet to keyhole?

Now, before you ask, I checked to rule out barrel causes. I have both a Glock 32 factory barrel as well as a 4" Storm Lake drop-in barrel and it keyholed with both. Checked again by using Cor Bon Sierras, Buffalo Bore GD, and Speer GD, which all gave nice round holes. The DT was in the perfect outline of a bullet profile with just about every round.

More than a little disappointed by DT, as many here have been. Not the velocity in this case but perhaps even worse.





So, just out of curiosity, what would a tumbling 125gr bullet at 1452fps do ballisitcs-wise? No doubt it wouldn't act like a normal HP would, but would it be destructive? Hell, might as well be a tumbling FMJ in that case.
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Last edited by ABNAK; 09-30-2012 at 18:12..
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Old 09-30-2012, 18:12   #2
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Stay away from the boutique ammo.
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Old 09-30-2012, 18:15   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxtrotx1 View Post
Stay away from the boutique ammo.

Unfortunately, they're the only ones who don't water down the 357Sig to mid-1300's. It was designed to replicate the .357 Magnum in it's 125gr loading, and 1350+/- is quite a bit short of that.

But yeah, I'm done with DT.
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Old 10-09-2012, 13:53   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
Unfortunately, they're the only ones who don't water down the 357Sig to mid-1300's. It was designed to replicate the .357 Magnum in it's 125gr loading, and 1350+/- is quite a bit short of that.

But yeah, I'm done with DT.
Not really. Chrono some current manuf 125gr 357mag in a 4" rev, you'll belucky to get to 1350fps. Most of the factory 357sig gets to that in a 3.5"-4" pistol bbl. The bullet keyholing is obvious @ 0.352" dia. Completely unacceptable in a factory round.
I have handloaded the 125gr Sierra to 1400fps w/ 1 1/2" 50ft accuracy. So it's not the bullet.
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Old 09-30-2012, 18:16   #5
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Pull a bullet and measure the diameter with a micrometer. Also look at the amount of crimp on the bullet, should be a slight ring around the bullet with no deformation. Undersized bullet are known to cause stability issues. If the bullets were not Sierras they may be Montana Gold JHPs. Montana Gold usually has quality bullet however their JHP rounds are more for target practice and not SD IMO. Post some pics if you got them.
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Old 09-30-2012, 18:21   #6
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Originally Posted by dkf View Post
Pull a bullet and measure the diameter with a micrometer. Also look at the amount of crimp on the bullet, should be a slight ring around the bullet with no deformation. Undersized bullet are known to cause stability issues. If the bullets were not Sierras they may be Montana Gold JHPs. Montana Gold usually has quality bullet however their JHP rounds are more for target practice and not SD IMO. Post some pics if you got them.
They're not Montana Golds as they don't have that "gold" color. They almost look like Winchester 125gr bullets. Will post a pic soon.
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Old 09-30-2012, 19:02   #7
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Caliber Corner

Caliber Corner

You can clearly see the difference in the holes (through a cheap hibachi I had in the garage that I knew would show it more decisively than paper). The two DT's are obvious, the other 3 are the BB GD, Speer GD, and CB Sierra.

The bullet on the right is a Cor Bon 125gr Sierra (from back before they made their own bullets like they do now). The one on the left is the *supposed* Sierra loaded by DoubleTap. It's easy to see the DT is NOT a Sierra.

I don't have a bullet puller so I can mic it.
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Old 09-30-2012, 21:33   #8
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Yeah they look like Winchester or Remington JHP. I checked their site and they are using Winchester or Remington JHP on other calibers. Seems kinda typical from DT for the last few years. You do not know what you are going to get.

The 115gr Winchester JHP, just slightly shorter than the 124gr. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/139...d-hollow-point

With Winchesters quality over the past couple years I would not be surprised if the bullet is undersized. I pulled a bullet out of WWB .357sig ammo and miced the bullet and it measured .353".

The description does say Sierra but the bullets in the pic sure do not look like Sierras. Guess if you want them right you have to load them yourself.
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...roducts_id=395

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Old 09-30-2012, 22:32   #9
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Originally Posted by Foxtrotx1 View Post
Stay away from the boutique ammo.

Yes, that's good advice. I've had both good luck and bad luck with boutique ammo. I'd be dollars ahead had I just stuck with quality American-made ammo and a few foreign rounds like Sellier & Bellot.

The boutique rounds that have worked for me are really no improvement over the big US ammo companies' offerings and typically cost more.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:29   #10
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I would inspect the suspect bullet's diameter, as others have said.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:50   #11
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I would inspect the suspect bullet's diameter, as others have said.
I'll pull one with my buddies bullet puller and mic it later today (hopefully).
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:43   #12
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I'll pull one with my buddies bullet puller and mic it later today (hopefully).
I would think it unlikely that the bullets are undersized, but that would account for the keyholing . . . .
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Old 10-01-2012, 19:36   #13
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From what I can see in the photo they look like the Winchester bullet that comes in the WWB 125gr JHP.

That bullet, in my opinion, is a POS for SD. It fragments super bad. Not just a little bit of fragmentation, but full jacket separation and a thin lead disk is what you have left if shooting water jugs. It basically explodes on contact. I saved one, the retained weight is a fraction of 125gr.
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Old 10-02-2012, 10:42   #14
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From what I can see in the photo they look like the Winchester bullet that comes in the WWB 125gr JHP.

That bullet, in my opinion, is a POS for SD. It fragments super bad. Not just a little bit of fragmentation, but full jacket separation and a thin lead disk is what you have left if shooting water jugs. It basically explodes on contact. I saved one, the retained weight is a fraction of 125gr.
If a 125 does that, my 115gr WW JHP +p+ would fragment even worse.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:06   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avenues165 View Post
From what I can see in the photo they look like the Winchester bullet that comes in the WWB 125gr JHP.

That bullet, in my opinion, is a POS for SD. It fragments super bad. Not just a little bit of fragmentation, but full jacket separation and a thin lead disk is what you have left if shooting water jugs. It basically explodes on contact. I saved one, the retained weight is a fraction of 125gr.
I believe it, especially at over 1400fps.
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:38   #16
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I'll make no excuses for DT. Only that I think since another company went to a new bullet, that the SIERRA's might be in short supply, or have become cruelly expensive.

If a person doesn't want the Winchester version, then there is always the more street
proven Gold Dot, as loaded by Double Tap or Speer.

I actually like the Barnes/TAC-XPs the best ( no way for jacket/core separation) but price seems to be the factor there.
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:34   #17
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The Sierra JHPs have been in stock pretty much every place I have checked on the net in the last couple years. Probably cost cutting to use the the same bullet in 9mm and .357sig.

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Old 10-05-2012, 09:58   #18
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I just thought of something. Has anyone inspected the muzzle crown on the subject pistol? Any dent there could cause bullet tumbling.
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Old 10-05-2012, 14:47   #19
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I just thought of something. Has anyone inspected the muzzle crown on the subject pistol? Any dent there could cause bullet tumbling.

It didn't do it with the other rounds. Also, used two barrels: one was a factory G32 barrel and the other was a Storm Lake drop-in. One keyhole in the pic was from each barrel.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:04   #20
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Aha

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
It didn't do it with the other rounds. Also, used two barrels: one was a factory G32 barrel and the other was a Storm Lake drop-in. One keyhole in the pic was from each barrel.
I see . . . . .
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