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Old 10-10-2012, 11:55   #1
Fire_Medic
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If your Glock works, this isn't the thread for you.....

So with all the argumentative types as of late, most of the threads have been locked up. I don't care if you have a Glock that runs 100% (so do I), I don't care if you think I work for someone else that is a competitor of Glock, and I don't care if your feelings are hurt because other people's pistols are malfunctioning and you LOVE Glock because that's all you own.

I own a couple of Glocks, M&P's, rifles, a nice vintage BHP, etc. I have been shooting Glocks since 2008, and I have never once had ANY issue with ANY of my Glocks, until I purchased my Gen 4 G19 a few months ago.

The purpose of this thread is for those having issues to share information, that is all. This is not a debate, or a thread for people who shoot 100 rounds per year, or who can't even grip their pistol the correct way when they shoot. Once upon a time this was a great forum where people shared information and had intellectual conversations on their "differences of opinion", I can't say that has been much of the trend the last couple of years.

So enough with the BS, let's get down to it.

I own a G19 Gen 4, Serial number SVY***. It now has over 3,000 rounds through it since I purchased it a little over 3 months ago. After almost 2,000 rounds through the gun, I started getting pelted in the face with brass, brass would roll out of the ejection port and onto my right arm, and the brass started ejecting basically wherever it wants to. Left, Right, forward, back over me, back to my face, etc, etc.

I was pretty sure my pistol was good to go with the amount of rounds and no issues, and no sooner than I sell my "backup" G19 (Gen 3 G19, I know mistake on my part) to a family member who was in need of a new pistol, do the issues present themselves.

I use this G19 for CCW, Training classes, IDPA, local training nights, and just regular range trips on my own. It is not a safe queen. All of the rounds through this pistol have been through the aforementioned environments.

The changes I made to the pistol were the sights, the Ghost Rocket, G17 smooth trigger bar, Vickers mag release, and vickers slide stop. I also replaced the factory springs with Wolff factory weight springs, and the trigger spring is a 6# extra power spring. I basically do the same modifications to all my Glocks. I also did some grip work on it recently.

I called Glock last week and spoke to a tech and explained my issues, he sighed and asked me to send the gun in without us even discussing anything further, I was told my complaints are not new. I told him I would like to try and diagnose the issues I am having before just sending the pistol in, being that I am a certified Armorer he could send me the parts with no issue, and they were free of charge. We discussed what the "updated" parts were on my pistol, and I did already have the "043" RSA, and the "30274" ejector. When it was all said and done, he said I would get a new extractor, and a new RSA (because of the round count) and we would go from there. Well today the "new" parts arrived from Smyrna, and the extractor is the same "dipped" version as the one my pistol came with, and we already know I had the updated RSA, so I just got a newer one, as periodic maintenance.

I will be hitting the range tomorrow and getting some ammo down range, probably 200 rounds or so to see what happens with the new parts. Being that they're the same parts, "I" expect 1 of 2 things to happen:

1) The gun will shoot and eject exactly as it has been lately
2) It will be better for a while then go back to it's old ways

I am awaiting getting my hands on the Apex part, and I did put an order in with Glockparts.Com because on another forum someone shared that their new 9MM LCI extractors were non dipped, so hopefully I get an HRED setup from them along with a non dipped extractor to try out.

Edit to add: Extractor that came on the pistol is stamped with a "4" and the new replacement from Glock has a "2" stamped on it.

I have taken some pictures for the sake of illustration that I would like to share, I'm not saying anything is right or wrong, just posting pics.

Below are some pics of my old extractor after over 3K rounds through the gun:

General Glocking

General Glocking

General Glocking

Picture showing the old RSA I had which is the updated one:

General Glocking

Picture of the new "dipped" extractor installed in the gun:

General Glocking

And picture of the new RSA:

General Glocking

Thanks
FM
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Last edited by Fire_Medic; 10-10-2012 at 19:07.. Reason: adding extractor info
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:27   #2
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I bought my brand new 29sf a month ago. I noticed as I hand racked the slide it would fail to return to battery about half the time. I called Glock and the gentleman said it should be fine once I started shooting it.

My first outing was last week. Out of 50 rounds it failed to return to battery 4 times. An 8% failure rate is unacceptable, maybe I should have saved $300 and bought a Taurus.....kidding.....but you get my point.

I called Glock again and the gentleman said he would send me a new recoil spring assembly. I asked if he thought that would work and he said "That's the first thing we try."

Not very comforting.....

I will let you know when it gets here.

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Old 10-10-2012, 12:29   #3
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Originally Posted by captaintrips View Post
I bought my brand new 29sf a month ago. I noticed as I hand racked the slide it would fail to return to battery about half the time. I called Glock and the gentleman said it should be fine once I started shooting it.

My first outing was last week. Out of 50 rounds it failed to return to battery 4 times. An 8% failure rate is unacceptable, maybe I should have saved $300 and bought a Taurus.....kidding.....but you get my point.

I called Glock again and the gentleman said he would send me a new recoil spring assembly. I asked if he thought that would work and he said "That's the first thing we try."

Not very comforting.....

I will let you know when it gets here.
Thanks for your input, will be interesting to see what happens with your pistol. I have a friend on another forum who's main issue (initially) with his Gen 4 was the recoil spring assembly, you could push the slide "forward" from the rear a good amount with just a finger, lol.

Keep us posted on what happens with your pistol.

FM
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Old 10-11-2012, 13:40   #4
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Originally Posted by captaintrips View Post
I bought my brand new 29sf a month ago. I noticed as I hand racked the slide it would fail to return to battery about half the time. I called Glock and the gentleman said it should be fine once I started shooting it.

My first outing was last week. Out of 50 rounds it failed to return to battery 4 times. An 8% failure rate is unacceptable, maybe I should have saved $300 and bought a Taurus.....kidding.....but you get my point.

I called Glock again and the gentleman said he would send me a new recoil spring assembly. I asked if he thought that would work and he said "That's the first thing we try."

Not very comforting.....

I will let you know when it gets here.
My Glock was the same way. I found that the bump on the trigger bar (that pushes on the safety plunger) was rubbing so hard on the bottom of the slide (it's not supposed to rub at all) that it prevented the gun from cycling properly. I took about .030 of metal off the top of it before it stopped rubbing, and now it works much better, and the safety plunger still works.

This is just plain old proof that Glocks are not being manufactured to even halfway decent tolerances anymore. Pistol actions have nothing in them, and I mean NOTHING, that should need a break in period AT ALL since there is nothing in a pistol action that is SUPPOSED to have an interference fit - it's not like it's piston rings needing to establish the proper surface finish on the cylinder walls or anything like that.

All the really good guns I've ever owned worked perfect from the very first shot, and the "break in" nonsense is just a lame excuse from Glock about the bad job they are doing with quality control these days. In the sixties, I never heard anyone say their Browning High Power needed a break in period. Some of the crappy looking new ones made by other companies might, but the old authentic Brownings didn't.

The fact that Glock, with modern CNC equipment, cannot seem to make gun parts as accurately as all the other gun companies did 50 years ago is down right pathetic.

Last edited by Brian Lee; 10-11-2012 at 13:44..
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:39   #5
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My 34 had the issue with less than 500 rds through it. I even tried hotter ammo and that just sent the brass at my face faster. Had the 336 ejector so I had that swapped and a new extractor for the heck of it and now with another 100 rds through it I look to be in the clear. No brass going anywhere but to the right for now. I love everything else about my gun so I hope that is the last I have to deal with it. I am very happy with the process I went through to get it fixed, the local armorer had it done very quick and painless.
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:44   #6
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I'll stick to my older Glocks, thanks.
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Old 10-10-2012, 13:01   #7
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I would have left it stock.

I can't make my Gen 4 G17 fail....I've tried.
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Old 10-10-2012, 13:18   #8
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I would have left it stock.

I can't make my Gen 4 G17 fail....I've tried.
Stock in what sense? The changes I have made to this pistol are the same as all my others, what does that have to do with anything? If the parts changed caused something then why don't my other Glocks have the same issues as this gun?
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Old 10-10-2012, 13:28   #9
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Quote:
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Stock in what sense? The changes I have made to this pistol are the same as all my others, what does that have to do with anything? If the parts changed caused something then why don't my other Glocks have the same issues as this gun?

Are you limp wristing?
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Old 10-10-2012, 13:29   #10
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Are you limp wristing?
I'm not even going to entertain anymore of your responses man.....

Your gun works, go away to one of threads of the guys with 100 rounds through their "perfect" gun.
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Old 10-10-2012, 13:14   #11
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I own a G19 Gen 4, Serial number SVY***. It now has over 3,000 rounds through it since I purchased it a little over 3 months ago. After almost 2,000 rounds through the gun, I started getting pelted in the face with brass, brass would roll out of the ejection port and onto my right arm, and the brass started ejecting basically wherever it wants to. Left, Right, forward, back over me, back to my face, etc, etc.FM
One thing that I don’t think has been addressed yet is the possibility of the extractor actually stretching to some extent after many cycles. If the gun runs for many hundreds of rounds and then starts to act up it has to be a wear part or an actual part failure and that would include the part loosing spec measurements by elongating. When you get your new part just for grins measure the distance between the claw and the anchor lug and see if your old one has gotten wider than the new one. Back in the 70s and early 80s the market had a bunch of import arms with parts that would bend or stretch after a few hundred rounds.
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Old 10-10-2012, 13:19   #12
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One thing that I don’t think has been addressed yet is the possibility of the extractor actually stretching to some extent after many cycles. If the gun runs for many hundreds of rounds and then starts to act up it has to be a wear part or an actual part failure and that would include the part loosing spec measurements by elongating. When you get your new part just for grins measure the distance between the claw and the anchor lug and see if your old one has gotten wider than the new one. Back in the 70s and early 80s the market had a bunch of import arms with parts that would bend or stretch after a few hundred rounds.
I will get the dial caliper out later tonight when the household calms down a bit. That would be an interesting comparison.

Thanks for your input.
FM

Edit: I couldn't wait had to know, 0.455" on both parts the new and the old.
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Old 10-10-2012, 13:35   #13
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I will get the dial caliper out later tonight when the household calms down a bit. That would be an interesting comparison.

Thanks for your input.
FM

Edit: I couldn't wait had to know, 0.455" on both parts the new and the old.
Well, check that off the list.
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Old 10-10-2012, 13:51   #14
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One thing that I donít think has been addressed yet is the possibility of the extractor actually stretching to some extent after many cycles. If the gun runs for many hundreds of rounds and then starts to act up it has to be a wear part or an actual part failure and that would include the part loosing spec measurements by elongating. When you get your new part just for grins measure the distance between the claw and the anchor lug and see if your old one has gotten wider than the new one. Back in the 70s and early 80s the market had a bunch of import arms with parts that would bend or stretch after a few hundred rounds.
My 19 had problems from the start, but I too, find it interesting that some guns don't develop the problem until a few thousand rounds are through the gun. One thing I found odd was that the spring loaded bearing and spring was a few mm shorter in my 19 than the one found in my 17. The odd part is that my 19 only had 500 rounds through it while the 17 has several thousand. I wonder if some of the EDP springs are defective and compress under load earlier. I know this would cause a loss of extractor tension, but what effect would it have on ejection and extraction?
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Old 10-10-2012, 13:55   #15
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My 19 had problems from the start, but I too, find it interesting that some guns don't develop the problem until a few thousand rounds are through the gun. One thing I found odd was that the spring loaded bearing and spring was a few mm shorter in my 19 than the one found in my 17. The odd part is that my 19 only had 500 rounds through it while the 17 has several thousand. I wonder if some of the EDP springs are defective and compress under load earlier. I know this would cause a loss of extractor tension, but what effect would it have on ejection and extraction?
I'm sure it would have a negative effect, especially since Apex saw it fit to provide a new spring with their extractors, and I know they did a lot of testing before hand.
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Old 10-10-2012, 14:46   #16
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My 19 had problems from the start, but I too, find it interesting that some guns don't develop the problem until a few thousand rounds are through the gun. One thing I found odd was that the spring loaded bearing and spring was a few mm shorter in my 19 than the one found in my 17. The odd part is that my 19 only had 500 rounds through it while the 17 has several thousand. I wonder if some of the EDP springs are defective and compress under load earlier. I know this would cause a loss of extractor tension, but what effect would it have on ejection and extraction?
I have never been happy with the weight of the factory EDP spring. Before White Sound Defense started making heavy duty SST springs available we would make small spacer rings from brass tube that slipped over the bearing and caused the spring to compress a bit more. You may want to try the HD spring in combination with your Apex and see if that gets rid of your stove pipes or try your longer spring before you spend money on a WSD spring.
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Old 10-10-2012, 14:58   #17
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I have never been happy with the weight of the factory EDP spring. Before White Sound Defense started making heavy duty SST springs available we would make small spacer rings from brass tube that slipped over the bearing and caused the spring to compress a bit more. You may want to try the HD spring in combination with your Apex and see if that gets rid of your stove pipes or try your longer spring before you spend money on a WSD spring.
Oh, I have lots of combinations to try out this Friday

1.) Apex extractor and non lci SLB
2) Modified OEM extractor
3) Cast non lci extractor and SLB from known good G26
4)Non-dip lci extractor and SLB from known good G17
5) Cast non lci extractor and SLB from Gen 2 22
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Old 10-10-2012, 13:31   #18
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I am surprised that the extractor is the dipped version. I thought the non dipped was the latest and greatest for the 9mm. I replaced the extractor in my Gen 4 G17 with the non dipped version and have consistent ejections at 4 o'clock, much better then the original dipped. The last 2 I have ordered from Midway have been the non dipped. The ejector I just installed (from Midway) on my Gen 3 G22 was still dipped but was of much better quality then the stock ejector. Glock appears to have changed their method of manufacture.

I shot over 100 rounds yesterday chasing a failure to feed with the G22, appears to have been the RSA causing the problem.
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Old 10-10-2012, 13:32   #19
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I am surprised that the extractor is the dipped version. I thought the non dipped was the latest and greatest for the 9mm. I replaced the extractor in my Gen 4 G17 with the non dipped version and have consistent ejections at 4 o'clock, much better then the original dipped. The last 2 I have ordered from Midway have been the non dipped. The ejector I just installed (from Midway) on my Gen 3 G22 was still dipped but was of much better quality then the stock ejector. Glock appears to have changed their method of manufacture.
Yes I was surprised as well, I thought the non dipped version for the 9MM with the LCI was the latest version. Hopefully the one from Glock parts LLC will be the non dipped.

If not maybe I can get lucky enough to try the Apex part when they release the next batch of extractors.
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Old 10-10-2012, 14:49   #20
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And this is why I choose my glock 22 in gen 3!! Dont fix what aint broken.
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Old 10-10-2012, 15:06   #21
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My Gen3 G27, NRR prefix ejected fine at first but at 200 rounds I and a relative noticed some spent casings going over my head. I thought nothing of it and just kept shooting until 300 when some were going straight up in the air then landing back on my arms or on the top of the slide. Then I inspected the spent casings and saw a big dent/scrape at the case mouths with corresponding brass dust and smearing on the lower ejection port of the slide. I tried different ammo, same results. I had kept some of the first spent casings fired through this gun and they did not have the dent/scrape. Once the ejection problem started, 98% of the spent casings had the dent/scrape at the case mouth and about 10% were either ejecting over my head or straight up in the air. The dents/scrapes at the case mouths are similar to my Paint drawing below:
General Glocking

My extractor was of the "MIM" flat top type and the claw became jagged, this must be really soft metal. I tried the extractor from my G23 which ejects fine(it's an older investment cast extractor), it eliminated most of the straight up ejections but not all, but it did not change the percentage of erratic ejections or casings with the dent/scrape. I tried a non-LCI 15 degree .40 extractor(also investment cast) with non-LCI SLB that I found in a local gun store, I had the same results as with my G23 extractor. I also tried a LWD .40 extractor which I later discovered to be a 9mm extractor, it of course made ejections much worse with some casings actually going downrange and to the left or over my left shoulder. I tried a new RSA, a new trigger housing w/1882 ejector, and they made no difference. I tried an HRED .40 EDP assembly, it made ejections more forceful but did not change how erratic they were.

I was considering reprofiling the 1882 ejector as JBarbaresi had successfully done to his 336 ejector with a rearward and slightly offset to the right angle to the face of the ejector when Glock released the new "Gen4" ejectors. I decided to wait and I'm glad I did. Before the new ejectors were available in the newest Gen4 trigger housings, another member of this forum tried a .40 28926 ejector in one of his guns and it made no difference, so he sent it to me. I removed the 1882 ejector from my Gen3 trigger housing and inserted the 28926 ejector. It fixed the ejection problem, I also used the non-LCI extractor as a replacement because I didn't trust the "MIM" one. All casings now eject to the right between 3 o'clock and 5 o'clock and there are no more dents/scrapes at the case mouths. There is a tiny scrape midway down the length of 50% of the casings as shown below in my Paint drawing:
General Glocking

I forgot to mention, with the 1882 ejector I compared some spent casings from my G23 and G27. The ejector marking on the 23 casings was low and left as it should be, but they were middle to high left on the 27 casings and sometimes the ejector even gouged the edge of the primer. The 28926 ejector leaves no marking that I can detect. I also noticed some pretty severe scoring of the muzzle end of the EDP, it seems to be rubbing against the opening in the slide pretty hard. My G23 EDP does not have such severe wear. I did not notice that wear on the HRED EDP but I only shot 100 rounds with it.
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Old 10-10-2012, 16:09   #22
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Originally Posted by voyager4520 View Post
My Gen3 G27, NRR prefix ejected fine at first but at 200 rounds I and a relative noticed some spent casings going over my head. I thought nothing of it and just kept shooting until 300 when some were going straight up in the air then landing back on my arms or on the top of the slide. Then I inspected the spent casings and saw a big dent/scrape at the case mouths with corresponding brass dust and smearing on the lower ejection port of the slide. I tried different ammo, same results. I had kept some of the first spent casings fired through this gun and they did not have the dent/scrape. Once the ejection problem started, 98% of the spent casings had the dent/scrape at the case mouth and about 10% were either ejecting over my head or straight up in the air. The dents/scrapes at the case mouths are similar to my Paint drawing below:
General Glocking

My extractor was of the "MIM" flat top type and the claw became jagged, this must be really soft metal. I tried the extractor from my G23 which ejects fine(it's an older investment cast extractor), it eliminated most of the straight up ejections but not all, but it did not change the percentage of erratic ejections or casings with the dent/scrape. I tried a non-LCI 15 degree .40 extractor(also investment cast) with non-LCI SLB that I found in a local gun store, I had the same results as with my G23 extractor. I also tried a LWD .40 extractor which I later discovered to be a 9mm extractor, it of course made ejections much worse with some casings actually going downrange and to the left or over my left shoulder. I tried a new RSA, a new trigger housing w/1882 ejector, and they made no difference. I tried an HRED .40 EDP assembly, it made ejections more forceful but did not change how erratic they were.

I was considering reprofiling the 1882 ejector as JBarbaresi had successfully done to his 336 ejector with a rearward and slightly offset to the right angle to the face of the ejector when Glock released the new "Gen4" ejectors. I decided to wait and I'm glad I did. Before the new ejectors were available in the newest Gen4 trigger housings, another member of this forum tried a .40 28926 ejector in one of his guns and it made no difference, so he sent it to me. I removed the 1882 ejector from my Gen3 trigger housing and inserted the 28926 ejector. It fixed the ejection problem, I also used the non-LCI extractor as a replacement because I didn't trust the "MIM" one. All casings now eject to the right between 3 o'clock and 5 o'clock and there are no more dents/scrapes at the case mouths. There is a tiny scrape midway down the length of 50% of the casings as shown below in my Paint drawing:
General Glocking

I forgot to mention, with the 1882 ejector I compared some spent casings from my G23 and G27. The ejector marking on the 23 casings was low and left as it should be, but they were middle to high left on the 27 casings and sometimes the ejector even gouged the edge of the primer. The 28926 ejector leaves no marking that I can detect. I also noticed some pretty severe scoring of the muzzle end of the EDP, it seems to be rubbing against the opening in the slide pretty hard. My G23 EDP does not have such severe wear. I did not notice that wear on the HRED EDP but I only shot 100 rounds with it.
Very informative post voyager, thanks for contributing.

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Old 10-10-2012, 21:54   #23
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Originally Posted by voyager4520 View Post
My Gen3 G27, NRR prefix ejected fine at first but at 200 rounds I and a relative noticed some spent casings going over my head. I thought nothing of it and just kept shooting until 300 when some were going straight up in the air then landing back on my arms or on the top of the slide. Then I inspected the spent casings and saw a big dent/scrape at the case mouths with corresponding brass dust and smearing on the lower ejection port of the slide. I tried different ammo, same results. I had kept some of the first spent casings fired through this gun and they did not have the dent/scrape. Once the ejection problem started, 98% of the spent casings had the dent/scrape at the case mouth and about 10% were either ejecting over my head or straight up in the air. The dents/scrapes at the case mouths are similar to my Paint drawing below:
General Glocking

.
My brass does the same thing from my Gen 4 G23 that spits brass in my face about once or twice every 100 rounds. When I first got it the BTF was more frequent, but Glock sent me a new recoil spring (can't remember which without checking) and I get less BTF (but it still happens). I understand there is a new extractor out, and I think I'll try that. I don't like BTF one bit, and I also don't like the mouth's of my brass getting beat up like that since I load my own. Before anyone says anything I get the same result with factory ammo.
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Old 10-10-2012, 15:28   #24
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Fire medic I had a similar issue. Gen 3 19 -syl 03/12 date, noticed within the first few hundred rounds it had a serious BTF issue, if not BTF it would eject left/and or forward, then it started stove piping. Tried a crap-ton of ammo, good hot SD ammo, cheap range stuff, 124 NATO, etc. Noticed with hotter stuff it ejected straight back with a lot more force. Sent gun in, was returned with a non-dip #2 extractor. Was a little better the first time out- put 400-500 rounds through it, functioned 100%, still threw some back, but no left ejection or stovepipes. 2nd weekend out, another 400-500 through it, I was back to square one. Back/left ejection and 2 stovepipes with 124gr NATO.
Finally got tired of messing with it, traded for a new 08/12 tty gen 4. Its only got a little less than a thousand through it, but so far its been pretty good. Mostly right ejection, no stovepipes, but I've been doing all kinds of tests with it with ammo etc and its been OK. Keeping a close eye on it and will keep testing.
The only thing that makes sense to me is glock has some slides so out of spec one way or another there is no definite fix, otherwise I'd think they would have released a fix all extractor but they haven't, probably cause they can't since the tolerance could be off in one direction or the other.(I could be way off, just a guess)
I know one thing, if I wanted a gun i have to mess with for 100% reliability, I'd get another 1911. Sad part is, my 1911 (or any other gun I own for that matter) has been far more reliable than my gen 3 19 ever was. It throws brass to the right every time and has NEVER failed to go bang. Could not say the same for my last glock. Hopefully my current gen 4 stays OK and don't start acting up.
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Old 10-10-2012, 15:42   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by di11igaf View Post
Fire medic I had a similar issue. Gen 3 19 -syl 03/12 date, noticed within the first few hundred rounds it had a serious BTF issue, if not BTF it would eject left/and or forward, then it started stove piping. Tried a crap-ton of ammo, good hot SD ammo, cheap range stuff, 124 NATO, etc. Noticed with hotter stuff it ejected straight back with a lot more force. Sent gun in, was returned with a non-dip #2 extractor. Was a little better the first time out- put 400-500 rounds through it, functioned 100%, still threw some back, but no left ejection or stovepipes. 2nd weekend out, another 400-500 through it, I was back to square one. Back/left ejection and 2 stovepipes with 124gr NATO.
Finally got tired of messing with it, traded for a new 08/12 tty gen 4. Its only got a little less than a thousand through it, but so far its been pretty good. Mostly right ejection, no stovepipes, but I've been doing all kinds of tests with it with ammo etc and its been OK. Keeping a close eye on it and will keep testing.
The only thing that makes sense to me is glock has some slides so out of spec one way or another there is no definite fix, otherwise I'd think they would have released a fix all extractor but they haven't, probably cause they can't since the tolerance could be off in one direction or the other.(I could be way off, just a guess)
I know one thing, if I wanted a gun i have to mess with for 100% reliability, I'd get another 1911. Sad part is, my 1911 (or any other gun I own for that matter) has been far more reliable than my gen 3 19 ever was. It throws brass to the right every time and has NEVER failed to go bang. Could not say the same for my last glock. Hopefully my current gen 4 stays OK and don't start acting up.
They date of the spent shells on mine is 03/05/2012. My reloads closely mimmic the 124gr NATO ammo, the weaker ammo for me as well just makes the problem worse, but it's still there with the hotter ammo to include my SD ammo.

We will see what happens.
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