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Old 10-17-2012, 14:01   #1
Peace Warrior
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The Holy Bible is both historically and scientifically correct.

To the cowards from the other thread... here it is...


THE RULE: Only ONE item, topic, subject and or theme at a time please.

Thanks.
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Last edited by Peace Warrior; 10-17-2012 at 14:03..
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Old 10-17-2012, 14:17   #2
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You don't get to make rules.

One example of each.

Historically: Luke tells us that when Jesus was born, Agustus was conducting his census (which was Josephs reason for returning home) and that Quirinius was governor of Syria. This is impossible if Herod was alive because the governorship of Quirinius in Syria didn't take place until as many as 10 years after the death of Herod. If Christ was born during the governorship of Quirinius then the fleeing from Herod to Egypt never occurred as Herod would have been long dead. If the mash up between Herod and Christ happened... Luke is a liar. This is the only place in the Gospel where one of the writers attempted to pinpoint the time in which Christ was born... and they got the historical details wrong.

Scientifically: C'mon, we know for a fact the earth and all of its life did not come to being in 6 days. Even you have to admit that. And before you start... no one is going to claim that perhaps evolution or anything relating to an old Earth is how God brought creation about. Your book doesn't say that, your book says 6 days... and it's wrong.

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Old 10-17-2012, 14:30   #3
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The Herod Quirinius thing is also a prime example of contradiction.

Next, if you take into account the generations put forth in the bible plus a generous 6,000 years for creation (you know the whole passage about a day being a thousand years to God blah blah blah... which by the way is naturally inconsistent) (also being generous assuming some of those early generations did have life spans in the hundreds of years) the Bible presents a world history of about 10,000 to 16,000 years to present. We also know is this absolutely false. We have fossil records that blow this out of the water.

Also there is no evidence of a global flood. So Noah's tale is not what it claims to be either.

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Old 10-20-2012, 04:10   #4
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
... We have fossil records that blow [a young earth account] out of the water. ...
(Me paraphrase in red)

Just exactly which/what "fossil records" scientifically prove the Earth to be billions and billions of years old?




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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
... Also there is no evidence of a global flood. So Noah's tale is not what it claims to be either.
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:53   #5
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
(Me paraphrase in red)

Just exactly which/what "fossil records" scientifically prove the Earth to be billions and billions of years old?
Fossils don't prove the Earth is billions of years old, because they're not that old. However, they do prove the Earth is between tens of thousands and millions of years old.
Radiometric dating is what proves the Earth is billions of years old.
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You've been offered numerous opportunities to produce evidence of a global flood. You've refused to do so. Do your indicate you'll now share it?
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:39   #6
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Fossils don't prove the Earth is billions of years old, because they're not that old. However, they do prove the Earth is between tens of thousands and millions of years old.
Radiometric dating is what proves the Earth is billions of years old. ...
(Emp. mine)\

Radiometric dating does not prove the Earth to be billions of billions of years old. Evos already admit as much.

-am-, stratigraphy, specifically as it relates to the geologic column and the age of the Earth, is what drives radiometric dating. One the whole, radiometric dating relies on the cross checking from index fossils, specifically, their placement within the certain stratum, in order to determine if the radiometric dates are to be used or literally thrown out as inconclusive or in error.

Simply put, where it not for the predetermined dates derived from the geologic column, which by the way predates radiometric dating by over 50 years at least, then radiometric dating would have been thrown out by the evos themselves as something that was unreliable as well as a foolish methodology to scientifically determine the age of anything dug up and or found on the ground.


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...You've been offered numerous opportunities to produce evidence of a global flood. You've refused to do so. Do your indicate you'll now share it?
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Old 10-21-2012, 12:34   #7
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
(Me paraphrase in red)

Just exactly which/what "fossil records" scientifically prove the Earth to be billions and billions of years old?
I'm sure someone else has already gotten to this, but we don't need to prove that the Earth is billions of years old to disprove the Bible. We only need prove it is older than 20K years. And it absolutely is. We have human remains that are older than this. We have evidence of man's existence going back 2.5 million years.


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This does not refute the fact that there is no evidence of a global flood. It only makes you look stupid.
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Old 10-17-2012, 14:43   #8
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
You don't get to make rules.
...
It's my thread. Play by the rules, or get ignored. Your choice. You had every opportunity to create a thread, but were too cowardly to do so.

So I reiterate- THE RULE: Only ONE item, topic, subject and or theme at a time[, otherwise, screw you].
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Last edited by Peace Warrior; 10-17-2012 at 14:44..
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Old 10-17-2012, 14:46   #9
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
It's my thread. Play by the rules, or get ignored. Your choice. You had every opportunity to create a thread, but were too cowardly to do so.

So I reiterate- THE RULE: Only ONE item, topic, subject and or theme at a time[, otherwise, screw you].
I'm waiting...
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Old 10-17-2012, 14:52   #10
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
You had every opportunity to create a thread, but were too cowardly to do so.
I'm the coward yet you are the one threatening to take your ball and go home...

Quote:
It's my thread. Play by the rules, or get ignored. Your choice.
This is something a coward says. You're already making plans of how to wiggle out of this. You'll just ignore people who's posts you don't like rather than engaging them head on.
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Old 10-17-2012, 15:01   #11
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
It's my thread. Play by the rules, or get ignored. Your choice. You had every opportunity to create a thread, but were too cowardly to do so.

So I reiterate- THE RULE: Only ONE item, topic, subject and or theme at a time[, otherwise, screw you].
Oh my, we are becoming upset aren't we? You'll do much better in life if you realize that you just can't dicate rules to other people. I know that runs contrary to your theistic worldview, but that worldview is archaic and obsolete anyway and you'd be better off without it.
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:28   #12
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Oh my, we are becoming upset aren't we? You'll do much better in life if you realize that you just can't dicate rules to other people. I know that runs contrary to your theistic worldview, but that worldview is archaic and obsolete anyway and you'd be better off without it.
Wow... just wow...

This is only a thread on the internet man.
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Old 10-17-2012, 17:28   #13
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It's my thread. Play by the rules, or get ignored. Your choice. You had every opportunity to create a thread, but were too cowardly to do so.

So I reiterate- THE RULE: Only ONE item, topic, subject and or theme at a time[, otherwise, screw you].
If I may suggest another rule. If three posts by one person pass without presenting a new argument or evidence, that topic will be considered closed and we can move on to something new.
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Old 10-17-2012, 15:04   #14
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
You don't get to make rules.

One example of each.

Historically: Luke tells us that when Jesus was born, Agustus was conducting his census (which was Josephs reason for returning home) and that Quirinius was governor of Syria. This is impossible if Herod was alive because the governorship of Quirinius in Syria didn't take place until as many as 10 years after the death of Herod. If Christ was born during the governorship of Quirinius then the fleeing from Herod to Egypt never occurred as Herod would have been long dead. If the mash up between Herod and Christ happened... Luke is a liar. This is the only place in the Gospel where one of the writers attempted to pinpoint the time in which Christ was born... and they got the historical details wrong.
Imagine the logistics of that. Everyone has to stop what they're doing and walk to the city of their births to register for a census. What if they didn't? How would anyone know? Wouldn't it have been simpler and more accurate to have local officials count the people in the cities where they lived. The census story is obviously made up to have Jesus born in Bethlehem.
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Old 10-17-2012, 15:11   #15
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Imagine the logistics of that. Everyone has to stop what they're doing and walk to the city of their births to register for a census. What if they didn't? How would anyone know? Wouldn't it have been simpler and more accurate to have local officials count the people in the cities where they lived. The census story is obviously made up to have Jesus born in Bethlehem.
More so than that... it is obvious that whoever wrote it... was not an actual witness. Not just to the birth of christ... but to the times themselves.

It'd be like me writing of the time when the terrorists crahsed planes into the towers... when Reagan was president and Smashing Pumpkins just released Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness. You would question if I was even around during this time in history.
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:55   #16
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"Luke is a historian of the first rank; not merely are his statements of fact trustworthy...[he] should be placed along with the very greatest of historians." - Sir William Mitchell Ramsay (1851-1939)


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Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
Imagine the logistics of that. Everyone has to stop what they're doing and walk to the city of their births to register for a census. What if they didn't? How would anyone know? Wouldn't it have been simpler and more accurate to have local officials count the people in the cities where they lived. The census story is obviously made up to have Jesus born in Bethlehem.
You do not understand history too well, but since you've opened the door for conjecture, I'll walk through it as well.

Everyone did not have to walk to their hometowns UNLESS THEY HAD LEFT THEM ; additionally, it may have been as simple as leaving the suburbs for downtown, which is something they might have done everyday to get to work. Unless, extrapolating further your flawed logic, the Romans should have had multiple "county seat courthouses." You know, like one in every neighborhood in suburbia.

Anyway, Luke advises that Joseph went to Bethlehem due to being a direct descendant of [King] David, which might mean that the Jews had the rule (hint hint) about being counted only at your own "hometown." Luke obviously knew of Romans rules and ways due to his traveling so much.

Here is what Luke actually said:

Luke 2:1-6, KJV

And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. ([And] this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
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Old 10-20-2012, 05:11   #17
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
"Luke is a historian of the first rank; not merely are his statements of fact trustworthy...[he] should be placed along with the very greatest of historians." - Sir William Mitchell Ramsay (1851-1939)
Ramsay being the guy who developed the "two terms as governor" hypothesis you so recently abandoned. Considering how faulty a historian Ramsay proved to be in this case, should we give much weight to his opinion of Luke?
Quote:
You do not understand history too well, but since you've opened the door for conjecture, I'll walk through it as well.

Everyone did not have to walk to their hometowns UNLESS THEY HAD LEFT THEM ; additionally, it may have been as simple as leaving the suburbs for downtown, which is something they might have done everyday to get to work. Unless, extrapolating further your flawed logic, the Romans should have had multiple "county seat courthouses." You know, like one in every neighborhood in suburbia.
Do you have any record of such travel being required by any Roman census? Also, while I'll refrain from the insults you interject so liberally, I'll point out that the Biblical account doesn't involve people returning to their hometown, but to the town where their ancestral line originated. A very different thing.
Quote:
Anyway, Luke advises that Joseph went to Bethlehem due to being a direct descendant of [King] David, which might mean that the Jews had the rule (hint hint) about being counted only at your own "hometown." Luke obviously knew of Romans rules and ways due to his traveling so much.
Who was taking the census, the Jews (Herod the Great in this instance) or the Romans (Caesar Augustus)? Let me answer that for you, it was the latter. Why would they follow a supposed Jewish practice (for which there is no evidence) when it would not only aid their intended goal (taxation) but would actually make it significantly more difficult, unless they were going to require people to continue returning to their ancestral origins to pay those taxes when it came time to collect?
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Old 10-20-2012, 06:40   #18
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Ramsay being the guy who developed the "two terms as governor" hypothesis you so recently abandoned. Considering how faulty a historian Ramsay proved to be in this case, should we give much weight to his opinion of Luke? ...
Either your ignorance of Ramsay, or your purposed omission of the facts concerning Ramsay's life, and or maybe some of both cause you to post such rubbish.

In actual fact, Ramsay assailed upon the writing of Luke and worked tirelessly to disprove Luke assertions. Only after more than a decade of hard work from Ramsay trying but always failing to disprove Luke accounts and retelling of events that Ramsay ended up an admirer of Luke's dogged persistence for attention to detail, fact finding, and writing only correct historical facts.
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Old 10-17-2012, 15:49   #19
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
You don't get to make rules.

One example of each.

Historically: Luke tells us that when Jesus was born, Agustus was conducting his census (which was Josephs reason for returning home) and that Quirinius was governor of Syria. This is impossible if Herod was alive because the governorship of Quirinius in Syria didn't take place until as many as 10 years after the death of Herod. If Christ was born during the governorship of Quirinius then the fleeing from Herod to Egypt never occurred as Herod would have been long dead. If the mash up between Herod and Christ happened... Luke is a liar. This is the only place in the Gospel where one of the writers attempted to pinpoint the time in which Christ was born... and they got the historical details wrong.

Scientifically: C'mon, we know for a fact the earth and all of its life did not come to being in 6 days. Even you have to admit that. And before you start... no one is going to claim that perhaps evolution or anything relating to an old Earth is how God brought creation about. Your book doesn't say that, your book says 6 days... and it's wrong.
I just did a search of the KJV and this guy Quirinius is not mentioned. Not even in Luke!

http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksea...qs_version=KJV
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Old 10-17-2012, 15:57   #20
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Originally Posted by Booker View Post
I just did a search of the KJV and this guy Quirinius is not mentioned. Not even in Luke!

http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksea...qs_version=KJV
We know from other historically valid sources that it was Quirinius that conducted the census that the bible refers to as being the reason for Joseph and Mary going to Bethlehem.

Census of Quirinius
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Old 10-17-2012, 16:00   #21
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I just did a search of the KJV and this guy Quirinius is not mentioned. Not even in Luke!

http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksea...qs_version=KJV
King James uses the word Cyrenius.
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Old 10-17-2012, 18:00   #22
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Originally Posted by Booker View Post
I just did a search of the KJV and this guy Quirinius is not mentioned. Not even in Luke!

http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksea...qs_version=KJV
It's also translated as Cyrenius... c'mon try harder than that.
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Old 10-17-2012, 19:08   #23
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It's also translated as Cyrenius... c'mon try harder than that.
I honestly did not know that! One of the things that confuses us laypeople is all the "a.k.a.s" in the bible.

It seems that names are changed during translations.
Another issue I've had is the names of many of the places. Many don't exist anymore, other have had their borders changed over the years.

Now I don't take the printed word as totally true, but I also don't get overly excited when a date or place can not be pinpointed with precise accuracy.

I'm sure that if we asked Paul, "When were you born?" He most likely couldn't give us an exact date and surely wouldn't use the terms BC or AD.

I can't tell the date of my birth, I don't remember the event, I can only tell you what others have told me! LOL

So based on the very small amount of reading I've done on this point, I'd say you won this one!
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:15   #24
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I honestly did not know that! One of the things that confuses us laypeople is all the "a.k.a.s" in the bible.

It seems that names are changed during translations.
Another issue I've had is the names of many of the places. Many don't exist anymore, other have had their borders changed over the years.

Now I don't take the printed word as totally true, but I also don't get overly excited when a date or place can not be pinpointed with precise accuracy.

I'm sure that if we asked Paul, "When were you born?" He most likely couldn't give us an exact date and surely wouldn't use the terms BC or AD.

I can't tell the date of my birth, I don't remember the event, I can only tell you what others have told me! LOL

So based on the very small amount of reading I've done on this point, I'd say you won this one!
Please allow me to apologize to you. I was rude and blunt with you. I was in a bit of a froth at Peace Warrior and you just happened to get in my line of sight. I read your earlier comment and colored it with the same tone in which I was reading Peace Warriors. I shouldn't have done that. You were making a separate comment all together. So I'm sorry for being short with you.
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Old 10-20-2012, 05:06   #25
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I just did a search of the KJV and this guy Quirinius is not mentioned. Not even in Luke!

http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksea...qs_version=KJV
Please see post # 58.
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