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Old 11-07-2012, 17:57   #1
akapennypincher
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DOGS, The AR's that I should not even consider

SAR Gun Show is in 28 Days, there should be lots of AR's For Sale. What are the Deals?

What are the Dogs.

What is the AR's that should be avoided at all cost, as their Quality Control is IFFY?
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Old 11-07-2012, 18:31   #2
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I would avoid Olympic Arms, I tried one, it had multiple malfunctions, nothing was properly staked, YMMV. Doublestar gets allot of negitive feedback here and on M4 Carbine, mostly from people who have never even held one, let alone shot one. Both of my Doubkestar rifles have functioned flawless, are properly staked, M4's have proper cuts, I wouldnt hesitate to buy another.
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Old 11-07-2012, 18:40   #3
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Guys here will have different opinions, based on their experiences, and/or repeating what they have heard or read.

The guy above said Olympic Arms is no good, well I had one that ran great and never gave me a problem. This holds true with any brand, one guy will have one that works, the next guy has one thats junk.

It's safe to say many less expensive AR brands have spotty quality control, your chances of getting a lemon are higher than a higher end brand.


edit: Do a search here, there is hundreds of "what AR should I get threads".

Last edited by Cole125; 11-07-2012 at 19:01..
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:37   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole125 View Post


Guys here will have different opinions, based on their experiences, and/or repeating what they have heard or read.

The guy above said Olympic Arms is no good, well I had one that ran great and never gave me a problem. This holds true with any brand, one guy will have one that works, the next guy has one thats junk.

It's safe to say many less expensive AR brands have spotty quality control, your chances of getting a lemon are higher than a higher end brand.


edit: Do a search here, there is hundreds of "what AR should I get threads".
Good point, how about this then. For a person on a beer budget, what are the top 3-4 ARs.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:43   #5
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Originally Posted by nursetim View Post
Good point, how about this then. For a person on a beer budget, what are the top 3-4 ARs.
If you cannot (or are just not willing to) afford a BCM, DD, Colt, Noveske, LMT, LaRue, etc. etc.

I would next look at:
Spikes
S&W
PSA



Personally.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:45   #6
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Originally Posted by Warp View Post
If you cannot (or are just not willing to) afford a BCM, DD, Colt, Noveske, LMT, LaRue, etc. etc.

I would next look at:
Spikes
S&W
PSA



Personally.
I like spikes stuff, but they are out of a lot of their lowers at the moment. Last I looked every single lower receiver was back ordered for months.
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Old 11-07-2012, 18:54   #7
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People use there ARs in differing capacities thus you'll here varying accounts of hands on experience w/i the same brand. There are companies that receive good reviews on a more consistant basis.

When I was researching my first AR purchase I did a lot of looking around M4C and took note of the carbines used most in high level classes by high level shooters. You can also read AARs. They'll sometimes include discussion on equipment used during the class.
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Old 11-07-2012, 20:14   #8
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Be an educated consumer, know what to look for and what you want,,, a new colt 6920 is a screaming deal at around 1000 out the door..
You will see price gouging this weekend since the election I am sure of it.

Daniel Defense makes a very solid Ar15

..

Both have top notch quality control.

You may get a good one from another maker , but if you don't oh well you may or may not get good service.

Higher end are NOVESKE and KAC.. those are pricey and are cool but offer no more reliability.

The Colt would be my pick because you can sell them for darn near what you paid they are the best value.
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Old 11-07-2012, 20:39   #9
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Allot depends on what your going to use the rifle for, I use my Doublestars for range, HD, it performs fine, and at under $700 leaves allot of money for ammo. Everyones going to have different opinions of what is a quality rifle, can you get a quality rifle without getting a Colt or DD, I think so. The market is flooded right now with small and large manufactures, whatnis your intended use for the rifle? Whats your budget?
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Old 11-07-2012, 21:11   #10
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Build one, they damn near snap together like legos

You can pick and choose what you want, adding over time if budget is an issue. Lots of great deals on the internet for every part you need. The lower is the only thing you will need to get thru a FFL. Pick up a stripped one at the show for $90 to $130 and then start picking up parts for it.

Videos on Youtube will clearly show you everything you need to know. It is easy to do. All 5 of mine are put together from different parts and makers. Most folks agree the lower is not an issue as they are almost all exactly the same regardless of brand name. The upper and bole carrier group are where the debate lies most of the time.

If you want a pre-assembled rifle then the ones mentioned above are good to go. Bushmaster, Stag Arms, Smith & Wesson are also good choices.

Just be prepared for lots of advice, brand name & AR15 can be a hotly debated subject to say the least.
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Old 11-07-2012, 22:01   #11
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Tons of threads about this here and on other forums, like M4carbine.net

I would not get:
DPSM
Olympic
Bushmaster
Double Star
Anything I haven't heard of

I would get:
Colt
Daniel Defense
Bravo Company Manufacturing
Noveske
LMT
LaRue
-
Spikes
Palmetto State Armory
Smith and Wesson

All depending on what I wanted and what I wanted to spend
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:18   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp View Post
Tons of threads about this here and on other forums, like M4carbine.net

I would not get:
DPSM
Olympic
Bushmaster
Double Star
Anything I haven't heard of

I would get:
Colt
Daniel Defense
Bravo Company Manufacturing
Noveske
LMT
LaRue
-
Spikes
Palmetto State Armory
Smith and Wesson

All depending on what I wanted and what I wanted to spend
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:14   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp View Post
Tons of threads about this here and on other forums, like M4carbine.net

I would not get:
DPSM
Olympic
Bushmaster
Double Star
Anything I haven't heard of

I would get:
Colt
Daniel Defense
Bravo Company Manufacturing
Noveske
LMT
LaRue
-
Spikes
Palmetto State Armory
Smith and Wesson

All depending on what I wanted and what I wanted to spend
+2
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:46   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warp View Post
tons of threads about this here and on other forums, like m4carbine.net

i would not get:
Dpsm
olympic
bushmaster
double star
anything i haven't heard of

i would get:
Colt
daniel defense
bravo company manufacturing
noveske
lmt
larue
-
spikes
palmetto state armory
smith and wesson

all depending on what i wanted and what i wanted to spend
bingo.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:54   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp View Post
Tons of threads about this here and on other forums, like M4carbine.net

I would not get:
DPSM
Olympic
Bushmaster
Double Star
Anything I haven't heard of

I would get:
Colt
Daniel Defense
Bravo Company Manufacturing
Noveske
LMT
LaRue
-
Spikes
Palmetto State Armory
Smith and Wesson

All depending on what I wanted and what I wanted to spend

Where would you put a Windham? I would put it equal to PSA or S&W...
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:57   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp View Post
Tons of threads about this here and on other forums, like M4carbine.net

I would not get:
DPSM
Olympic
Bushmaster
Double Star
Anything I haven't heard of

I would get:
Colt
Daniel Defense
Bravo Company Manufacturing
Noveske
LMT
LaRue
-
Spikes
Palmetto State Armory
Smith and Wesson

All depending on what I wanted and what I wanted to spend


+3
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:07   #17
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Originally Posted by Spartacus100 View Post
Where would you put a Windham? I would put it equal to PSA or S&W...
If I were to put Windham in that post they would go at the bottom, under S&W, or between PSA and S&W.

I tried to limit my post to listing/ranking brands that probably wouldn't get much disagreement. That's why I didn't list Del-Ton under brands I would not own or Windham under brands I would own, for example. And it's why I didn't list Sig, and some others.
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Last edited by Warp; 11-08-2012 at 12:09..
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:33   #18
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Originally Posted by akapennypincher View Post
SAR Gun Show is in 28 Days, there should be lots of AR's For Sale. What are the Deals?

What are the Dogs.

What is the AR's that should be avoided at all cost, as their Quality Control is IFFY?
An AR is an AR - learn about them and you can make any one work as well as the next. They are like 1911's that way. High dollar brand names are for people who don't know enough to build their own.

Looking above, for example: Double Star makes some of the best parts I've ever had on an AR or a 1911 and I've built both with their parts - excellent quality, but the newbs don't know the name and don't know enough to see the differences, beyond brand names.
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Last edited by Bren; 11-08-2012 at 04:35..
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:44   #19
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Originally Posted by Bren View Post
Looking above, for example: Double Star makes some of the best parts I've ever had on an AR or a 1911 and I've built both with their parts - excellent quality, but the newbs don't know the name and don't know enough to see the differences, beyond brand names.
Double Star hasn't made it into the "approved" group. Until so called experts start praising it, it will be beat up, regardless of whether people have problems with them or not.
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Old 11-08-2012, 13:52   #20
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Not disagreeing with you...
Quote:
Originally Posted by P99er View Post
Double Star hasn't made it into the "approved" group. Until so called experts start praising it, it will be beat up, regardless of whether people have problems with them or not.
I put more faith in a man that can take an "unapproved" brand AR15 and make it run over any "so called expert's" opinion any day. My reason is, ACTUAL experts like Pat Rogers document failures that occur in his training classes. He can recommend brands that have a less chance of failure based on first hand experience and a very large sample size. More "so called experts" that frequent gun forums usually have the opposite.

In all seriousness, who is more credible? One man who can PMCS a DPMS and keep it running, or some internet commando that posts BCM/Colt/LMT/DD/KAC on every thread but if his BCM/Colt/LMT/DD/KAC fails, tap/rack/bang is the pinnacle of his knowledge base?

But then again, I put the responsibility of proper operation of my gear on myself, not the manufacturer.
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Old 11-08-2012, 21:16   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
An AR is an AR - learn about them and you can make any one work as well as the next. They are like 1911's that way. High dollar brand names are for people who don't know enough to build their own.

Looking above, for example: Double Star makes some of the best parts I've ever had on an AR or a 1911 and I've built both with their parts - excellent quality, but the newbs don't know the name and don't know enough to see the differences, beyond brand names.
Not true. ARs are not created equaly. Build materials are the most noticable difference. Then you have QC and quality of assembly.

Work is a broad term. Work for one may not work for another.

Not knowing you can have quality w/o the "High Dollar" price tag shows, in your words, "newb" status.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bird View Post
FWIW, DPMS sells more ARs in the US than any other maker by a very large margin. You will hear lots about them. But the guns I've seen ran fine. Price is not the only reason they sell bunch...if they were junk they wouldn't hold the market share they do.
Uninformed consumers drive the market. Compare the amount of people w/ ARs sitting in the safe who get out three times a year to the number of guys who are out once or twice a week. The number of ARs sold has no relation to quality. Uninformed consumers who rarely shoot then jump on forums and talk about how their DPMS is 100%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA_357SIG View Post
Not disagreeing with you...


I put more faith in a man that can take an "unapproved" brand AR15 and make it run over any "so called expert's" opinion any day. My reason is, ACTUAL experts like Pat Rogers document failures that occur in his training classes. He can recommend brands that have a less chance of failure based on first hand experience and a very large sample size. More "so called experts" that frequent gun forums usually have the opposite.

In all seriousness, who is more credible? One man who can PMCS a DPMS and keep it running, or some internet commando that posts BCM/Colt/LMT/DD/KAC on every thread but if his BCM/Colt/LMT/DD/KAC fails, tap/rack/bang is the pinnacle of his knowledge base?

But then again, I put the responsibility of proper operation of my gear on myself, not the manufacturer.
What maker does Pat Rogers recommend and back?

How about an AR that just simply runs w/o the need for extra care. I'd rather spend my time shooting than maintaining.

Are you recommending people purchase non functional ARs so tap, rack, bang isn't the extent of their knowledge?
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Old 11-08-2012, 21:21   #22
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Work is a broad term. Work for one may not work for another.
It sure is. That guy I referenced earlier was very happy with his DPMS, and was sure it was the ammo (Federal Lake City XM855) that was faulty, not his rifle. Nevermind the fact that my rifle, and lots and lots of other quality rifles, shoot that ammo without the problems he has...or that I took the "bad" ammo from him and it worked in my rifle

But there isn't a sexy mil-spec for a hammer spring, so people think it is impossible one manufacturer's hammer springs are better made, better installed, or better suited for the job than another manufacturer's. But something has to account for his rifle's failures.

Not that he considers them to be his rifle's failures. They sure seem to be, for me, but it's easier for him to shift the blame elsewhere.
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Last edited by Warp; 11-08-2012 at 21:22..
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:09   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post
What maker does Pat Rogers recommend and back?

How about an AR that just simply runs w/o the need for extra care. I'd rather spend my time shooting than maintaining.

Are you recommending people purchase non functional ARs so tap, rack, bang isn't the extent of their knowledge?
I never said he did. One definition of "can" is -be logically or axiologically able to. I swear, if your cognitive skills were as strong as your arrogance...

As far as your other comment and question, reread my post you quoted and adjust your cognition until you get an answer.
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Old 11-13-2012, 16:44   #24
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Double Star hasn't made it into the "approved" group. Until so called experts start praising it, it will be beat up, regardless of whether people have problems with them or not.
you mean, it's not just my imagination?
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Old 11-14-2012, 19:30   #25
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[QUOTE=Bren;19606931]An AR is an AR - learn about them and you can make any one work as well as the next. They are like 1911's that way. High dollar brand names are for people who don't know enough to build their own.

Looking above, for example: Double Star makes some of the best parts I've ever had on an AR or a 1911 and I've built both with their parts - excellent quality, but the newbs don't know the name and don't know enough to see the differences, beyond brand names.[/QUOTE]

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