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Old 11-14-2012, 12:42   #1
Glock 1
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Guns and Ammo types for shtf

I live in a suburban area that is kind of off the beaten path. Not hard to find mind you, just out of obvious site. Unless you live out here or drive past the entrance, you probably don't know its here. It's a real pain for new pizza delivery drivers.

The inhabitants of my home make it impossible for me to throw everyone in a car and bug out quickly or on foot due to physical limitations.

About 200 yards behind my house is a medium sized woodsy area (couple hundred acres maybe?) that surrounds a creek. I have no neighbors behind me because it is a 100 yr flood plain. Under the cover of darkness I could move at my own pace to the woodsy area unseen.

It's not ideal and its not on my land. However, in a shtf moment, I have no issue taking a small portion short term to survive or hunting out there as there are loads of rabbits and squirrels around here. I know where the owners live and they won't be going to this land but my neighbors might.

I suspect I will end up holed up in the house. I have guns, ammo, food, a pool (maintained only with bleach), and family members who can shoot. I could last a couple of weeks in food or water so my main worry is defending my home against looters and such and first aid. I know my neighbors and would happily allow them to hunker down with me and mine and consolidate resources. My best friend lives in the same neighborhood and has an arsenal that matches mine almost identical. He has no safe and no pool so he would probably combine resources and ammo if it was really bad.

I am making a list of ammo and guns I should have in stock. Here is the calibers I have and the respective ammo amounts.

Glock 21SF – 50rds
2 Glock 26’s – 450 rds
Bersa 380 – 300 rds
S&W 38 Sp revolver - 100 rds
AR-15 - 400 rds
20 ga double barrel Shotgun – 225 rds
.308 bolt action rifle – 60 rds
.22lr M&P rifle – 11,000 rds

What ammo quantity would you add and in what order of importance? I know some numbers are very low but its only recent. I also just got all my 22 in today since its really all I can afford to take to the range now. That is why that number is kinda high.

Are there any other caliber weapons I should have on hand? I already have a AK, 357 revolver w/4” barrel, Glock 23, Glock 17, Mossberg 930SPX, and S&W M&P .22lr pistol on the must have list. Am I missing anything? I don’t want to be paranoid but I do want to be prepared.

If you have any other suggestions I am open to them.
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Old 11-14-2012, 13:15   #2
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Glock 1,

A Pistol carbine in either 9mm or 45 ACP, this will give you the ability to use the same ammo in two different platforms. Tons of folks make them from Colt, S&W in the high priced range to mid range Just Right Carbines, Thureon defense, to the low priced ones Hi-Point, Kel-tech.

To cover yourself just in case of an extended stay (say things get bad for months at a time), I'd Bump up your 9mm & 45 ACP levels to 1,000 rounds each.

I have a Bersa Thunder 380, that and the G26, these will be great for up close defense. Mag changes will be important, don't run out of ammo because of reloading just one or two mag... get 4 min.

You sound like you are in good position to keep your family safe for some time.

Good luck.
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Old 11-14-2012, 13:20   #3
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Magazines. I missed that part. Hell, I can't believe I didn't think of that. I have a bunch of loaded pmags and 22 mags but only 2 for each handgun. I will add that to the list too.

I will look into the carbine too. Thanks for the idea and the reminder on the mags.
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Old 11-14-2012, 13:45   #4
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i asked my wife a few months ago how much ammo "is enough" for a stock. she gave me a look like i was stupid and said "there is no such thing as "enough" ammo."
love my wife

besides the generic "it depends" i would look at how much ammo you burn up at a range session. my wife and i normally burn up 150-200 rounds ( total ) of 10mm at the range per visit. i would shoot for at least 1k for your pistols. mabey less for hunting rifles. depends on how much practice is needed.
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Old 11-14-2012, 14:00   #5
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I would think you are thousands and thousands of rounds short for that AR-15 in a true, honest to God SHTF scenario.

I like your .22LR count for the AR-15. I would also have more shotgun rounds for gathering food in the woods. (At least until that was depleted or run off.)
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Old 11-14-2012, 16:08   #6
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I would think you are thousands and thousands of rounds short for that AR-15 in a true, honest to God SHTF scenario.
This is so mall ninja-ish. Even in a TEOTWAWKI situation, the odds of surviving long enough to need thousands of rounds is miniscule compared to the odds of dying from lack of nutrition or medical care or a hundred other causes.

To the OP: you have plenty of calibers, don't need to add more esoteric ones like .357 Sig. Frankly, in most situations a Glock or two and a long gun with a couple of mags each is going to be more than enough. You're not going to be living Red Dawn. A couple of weeks of food and water? We should be talking months or years before we're talking thousands of rounds of ammo.

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Old 11-14-2012, 16:09   #7
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I would if you can have at least 4 magazines for each gun and the same in speed loaders.
As far as ammo you look with the .22LR and would try to up my level for the other calibers to 800 - 1000.
Shotgun shells about to 500.
You look solid on your guns and the only thing I can see you should be a .22LR rifle that is not in the tactical realm of things and even on the cheaper site of things or even a Ruger 10/22 break down model.
Sometimes less is more.
One reason I like the real cheap .22lr rifles like those $125 Mossbergs and such or some Mosin Nagant ( SP? ) surplus as it is easy to use to arm friends and neighbors and gives you the ability to give some cheap guns to the government should they decide to come around confiscating guns and ammo which could be a real possibility if you look at what happened in Luisiana NO area during Katrina.
May even want to buy a couple dirt cheap pistols for that too, Highpoints come to mind.
Also a couple of weeks of food and water would be my main concern that is way to little even with the ability to hunt.
At the very minimum you should have 3 mos of food and an alternate source of water.
Having a pool is great and all but I would not want to rely on this as my only drinkable source.
I would rather do with less guns and ammo then food and water.
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Old 11-14-2012, 19:04   #8
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Alot of great info and alot of you are on the same wave length as me.

I had some numbers in mind and you have echoed them so I must be thinking right. 1000 rds of handgun calibers, 1000 shotgun, and about 2000 for the AR. The 22 M&P is my toy and the pistol will be too.

And yes, a 10/22 is on the short list. I actually am waiting for my distributor to get the take down 10/22's back in stock. That is a wicked little gun there.

I think the 10/22 and the 12 gauge are my more pressing calibers as far as guns to obtain. Ammo is of course paramount right after that.

My wife used to think I was crazy wanting to stock pile ammo. She would look at my 400rds of .223 and 50 rds of 45 and tell me I did not need anymore. Then one day there was a story on the news about angry people in the streets because a police officer shot some stupid crack head in the hood. Then she turns to me and says "do we have plenty of ammo?" I just laughed really loud and said "to live through it or just take a few with us? Because you have two magazines of 9mm and then its pistol whippin time." Ever since then she has not complained about the ammo.

My food and water are being taken care of slowly but I will pass on your input. I was thinking of 55 gallon rain runoff barrels in the back yard under the gutters downspouts too. I might make that a priority now. I have plenty of bleach and a fireplace for boiling or sanitizing it if needed. I also have alot of firewood. Atleast a couple of months worth.

Food is pretty much good to go. We have a good size pantry and keep it stocked with canned goods, coffee (my 1 indulgence) and staples that will not go bad. Cases of veggies, beans, sauces, noodles and all the good stuff. we also have lots of canned meats like spam, deviled ham, vienna sausages, and dried beef. Trips to Sam's have become a monthly endeavor and I ask for bulk items we don't use often and sock it away quietly.

Now, one more thing occurred to me, a first aid kit. I need to read more on here before I ask questions but I want to make my own and need ideas of what to put in it other than scripts.

I have peroxide, band-aids, chemical ice packs, alcohol, iodine, Mercurochrome, suturing needle and thread, bandages, scissors, and the usual ointments like anti-itch, antibiotic, and burn cream.

I still need a snake bite kit, wasp sting kit, and epi-pens. The snake kit is because we have snakes and the others are for household allergies.

I am sure there is much more but I will read some of those threads and see what I have missed.

Thanks again for all your input. My wife calls me paranoid and I tell her its only paranoia if you never have to use it. She says, so in the end when I tell you I told you so, what then? I told her I would simply be wrong and she would be right. Again. But, it gets me peace of mind.
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Old 11-14-2012, 18:36   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock 1 View Post
Glock 21SF – 50rds
2 Glock 26’s – 450 rds
Bersa 380 – 300 rds
S&W 38 Sp revolver - 100 rds
AR-15 - 400 rds
20 ga double barrel Shotgun – 225 rds
.308 bolt action rifle – 60 rds
.22lr M&P rifle – 11,000 rds
.
Hard question, but here goes.
I decided on 1K of SD ammo and 10K of practice ammo for each gun. I decided on 11 magazines for gun requiring magazines. Someone said, that is a HELL of a lot of ammo. I tell them, I don't plan on surviving a conflict where I have to use my 1K of SD ammo. This is just in case the laws change and I can NEVER buy ammo again. This being said, I have never reached my goal numbers.

As for what guns to have for SHTF, I don't like your collection. This is what I would get. Then I would buy for the rest of the family. Then I would get spare parts and/or duplicates/replacements. Assuming money and desire.

For personal protection:
1. Micro CCW, (Bersa 380 fits, but I don't like 380. I would grab a micro 9.)
2. Full sized sidearm, (Glock 21SF fits, but can everyone in the family use it? And it is not in the same cartridge as the micro ccw.)
3. Rifle/carbine, (AR-15 fits depending on how it is tricked out. Remember most attacks happen between dusk and dawn.)
4. Do it all shotgun, (20 ga double barrel does not fit this role. There are several shotguns which could fit this role. I found a Remington 870 with a sidesaddle, ammo on the stock, 18.5 rifle sights and screw in modified choke is a pretty good do it all shotgun.)

Bonus points for:
5. SBR (pocket rifles are great as a multi-purpose platform. I am addicted to SBRs.)
6. Heavy long range gun (I still need a BIG heavy like a 50BMG McMillian. Your 308 is at best a medium. With the time I have to practice and my current skill set, all I have is several mediums.)

Practice tools:
1. 22lr handgun or conversion
2. 22lr rifle or conversion (Your .22lr M&P rifle fits)

Hunting:
1. See the "Do it all shotgun" above. Get a second of whatever and don't trick it out tactically. The full length barrel is better for flying things, but the 18.5 with modified choke is great for deer to rabbits.
2. If has been said that everything in North American can be hunted with a 30-06. I believe it is true, but not the best idea. I would suggest doing the 4 gun battery. Light=22LR (See practice gun above), Varmint=222 through 22-250, Medium 243 though 300 Weatherby Mag (the core deer cartridges), Heavy 338 through 600N (This is to keep elephants out of your yard. So far I have not had any elephant in my yard since I got my 458WM. It can also be loaded down and used for deer.)
3. Combo gun. I want a 12ga over 308. I will get one. When I need food and don't know what I will find to kill......it will be my game getter gun.
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Old 11-14-2012, 19:16   #10
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Hard question, but here goes.
I decided on 1K of SD ammo and 10K of practice ammo for each gun. I decided on 11 magazines for gun requiring magazines. Someone said, that is a HELL of a lot of ammo. I tell them, I don't plan on surviving a conflict where I have to use my 1K of SD ammo. This is just in case the laws change and I can NEVER buy ammo again. This being said, I have never reached my goal numbers.

As for what guns to have for SHTF, I don't like your collection. This is what I would get. Then I would buy for the rest of the family. Then I would get spare parts and/or duplicates/replacements. Assuming money and desire.

For personal protection:
1. Micro CCW, (Bersa 380 fits, but I don't like 380. I would grab a micro 9.)
2. Full sized sidearm, (Glock 21SF fits, but can everyone in the family use it? And it is not in the same cartridge as the micro ccw.)
3. Rifle/carbine, (AR-15 fits depending on how it is tricked out. Remember most attacks happen between dusk and dawn.)
4. Do it all shotgun, (20 ga double barrel does not fit this role. There are several shotguns which could fit this role. I found a Remington 870 with a sidesaddle, ammo on the stock, 18.5 rifle sights and screw in modified choke is a pretty good do it all shotgun.)

Bonus points for:
5. SBR (pocket rifles are great as a multi-purpose platform. I am addicted to SBRs.)
6. Heavy long range gun (I still need a BIG heavy like a 50BMG McMillian. Your 308 is at best a medium. With the time I have to practice and my current skill set, all I have is several mediums.)

Practice tools:
1. 22lr handgun or conversion
2. 22lr rifle or conversion (Your .22lr M&P rifle fits)

Hunting:
1. See the "Do it all shotgun" above. Get a second of whatever and don't trick it out tactically. The full length barrel is better for flying things, but the 18.5 with modified choke is great for deer to rabbits.
2. If has been said that everything in North American can be hunted with a 30-06. I believe it is true, but not the best idea. I would suggest doing the 4 gun battery. Light=22LR (See practice gun above), Varmint=222 through 22-250, Medium 243 though 300 Weatherby Mag (the core deer cartridges), Heavy 338 through 600N (This is to keep elephants out of your yard. So far I have not had any elephant in my yard since I got my 458WM. It can also be loaded down and used for deer.)
3. Combo gun. I want a 12ga over 308. I will get one. When I need food and don't know what I will find to kill......it will be my game getter gun.
Wow, I am coming to your house if the shtf. lol. Better yet, I will stay atleast 2000 yards away and call ahead.
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Old 11-15-2012, 13:10   #11
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Wow, I am coming to your house if the shtf. lol. Better yet, I will stay atleast 2000 yards away and call ahead.
It is like golfing with a complete set of clubs or just a 1wood & 4iron. At least where I played I could get away with just those two clubs if I had to, but it nice knowing I had a complete set of clubs if I needed them.

If you want just a few clubs, then I need to know the limitations of the group, better idea of the location and in the end you may really really want something more and not have it.
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Old 11-15-2012, 13:22   #12
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It is like golfing with a complete set of clubs or just a 1wood & 4iron. At least where I played I could get away with just those two clubs if I had to, but it nice knowing I had a complete set of clubs if I needed them.

If you want just a few clubs, then I need to know the limitations of the group, better idea of the location and in the end you may really really want something more and not have it.

Ummmm.....what club would this equate to?


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Old 11-15-2012, 15:16   #13
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Ummmm.....what club would this equate to?


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6. Heavy long range gun.

A friend had a Big Birtha 1 wood. I think that is equivalent.
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Old 11-15-2012, 13:26   #14
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It is like golfing with a complete set of clubs or just a 1wood & 4iron. At least where I played I could get away with just those two clubs if I had to, but it nice knowing I had a complete set of clubs if I needed them.

If you want just a few clubs, then I need to know the limitations of the group, better idea of the location and in the end you may really really want something more and not have it.
Good analogy.

I (and probably most of us) have more guns than we really need; but if push came to shove we'd almost always be better off picking the one or two that can solve the most, and most important, problems. That means we have to be very proficient with those, very comfortable with them, and very well setup/stocked with everything needed to feed, operate and maintain them; enough so that we're comfortable sticking with them when stuff's on the line.
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Old 11-15-2012, 15:42   #15
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Good analogy.

I (and probably most of us) have more guns than we really need; but if push came to shove we'd almost always be better off picking the one or two that can solve the most, and most important, problems. That means we have to be very proficient with those, very comfortable with them, and very well setup/stocked with everything needed to feed, operate and maintain them; enough so that we're comfortable sticking with them when stuff's on the line.
Well, I can see both sides or to put is a different way I don't like the idea if pushed to either extreme.

If I handed someone a tricked out Remington 870 and a second barrel. This is the ultimate one gun arsenal IMHO. Good for hunting and personal protection from squirrels to Grs. Bear. It can take everything in the world if used correctly, BUT man it would suck hunting antelope in Wyoming especially if the other hunters were using Rem M700 in 270 with scopes.

The flip side is the people who have 300 or 500 different guns. There is no time to learn all the different intricacies of each gun.

I think the above list is complete, but as stated above I don't have all of those guns covered. For other areas, I have multiples as I continue to find something better.
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:13   #16
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Hard question, but here goes.
I decided on 1K of SD ammo and 10K of practice ammo for each gun. I decided on 11 magazines for gun requiring magazines. Someone said, that is a HELL of a lot of ammo. I tell them, I don't plan on surviving a conflict where I have to use my 1K of SD ammo. This is just in case the laws change and I can NEVER buy ammo again. This being said, I have never reached my goal numbers.

As for what guns to have for SHTF, I don't like your collection. This is what I would get. Then I would buy for the rest of the family. Then I would get spare parts and/or duplicates/replacements. Assuming money and desire.

For personal protection:
1. Micro CCW, (Bersa 380 fits, but I don't like 380. I would grab a micro 9.)
2. Full sized sidearm, (Glock 21SF fits, but can everyone in the family use it? And it is not in the same cartridge as the micro ccw.)
3. Rifle/carbine, (AR-15 fits depending on how it is tricked out. Remember most attacks happen between dusk and dawn.)
4. Do it all shotgun, (20 ga double barrel does not fit this role. There are several shotguns which could fit this role. I found a Remington 870 with a sidesaddle, ammo on the stock, 18.5 rifle sights and screw in modified choke is a pretty good do it all shotgun.)

Bonus points for:
5. SBR (pocket rifles are great as a multi-purpose platform. I am addicted to SBRs.)
6. Heavy long range gun (I still need a BIG heavy like a 50BMG McMillian. Your 308 is at best a medium. With the time I have to practice and my current skill set, all I have is several mediums.)

Practice tools:
1. 22lr handgun or conversion
2. 22lr rifle or conversion (Your .22lr M&P rifle fits)

Hunting:
1. See the "Do it all shotgun" above. Get a second of whatever and don't trick it out tactically. The full length barrel is better for flying things, but the 18.5 with modified choke is great for deer to rabbits.
2. If has been said that everything in North American can be hunted with a 30-06. I believe it is true, but not the best idea. I would suggest doing the 4 gun battery. Light=22LR (See practice gun above), Varmint=222 through 22-250, Medium 243 though 300 Weatherby Mag (the core deer cartridges), Heavy 338 through 600N (This is to keep elephants out of your yard. So far I have not had any elephant in my yard since I got my 458WM. It can also be loaded down and used for deer.)
3. Combo gun. I want a 12ga over 308. I will get one. When I need food and don't know what I will find to kill......it will be my game getter gun.
That must be a tough addiction. Does one give you the "fix" for good with plenty of ammo? Or must you continue buying more/new SBRs to temporarily pacify the addiction? The trouble is the fact that you must do more than just pay for them. I guess you reside in a state that allows them to be obtained "relatively" easily. (Maryland?)

Last edited by BR549; 11-15-2012 at 08:17..
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Old 11-15-2012, 22:31   #17
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...
4. Do it all shotgun, (20 ga double barrel does not fit this role. There are several shotguns which could fit this role. I found a Remington 870 with a sidesaddle, ammo on the stock, 18.5 rifle sights and screw in modified choke is a pretty good do it all shotgun.)
...
I've never seen one, and I've looked. The closest I've seen is to have a fixed choke barrel drilled and tapped for rem choke, or have the 870 tactical ghost ring sight barrel drilled and tapped for a rear rifle sight. (Though I'm not 100% sure the front sight is the same.)

Buying a barrel then having it drilled and tapped seems like a lot to shorten up my gun by 1.5". Though I'm sure I'll do it eventually.
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Old 11-15-2012, 23:10   #18
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In a SHTF type scenario, my Go-To guns will be my Glocks and my AR-15. The simple reason is they have proven to me that they will function dirty, take some of the most common ammunition out there. 40cal, and 5.56/.223, and have the highest magazine capacity.

I guess if I owned a mash-up of different guns/calibers, my opinion may be different, but I've selected each purchase with a purpose. There's only been a couple of them that I bought just for the heck of it.

You may want to make the determination as to whether:
A: You truly have the right mix of firearms for what you plan to happen.
B: You do not have the right mix, but you are trying to justify to yourself why they are the right mix of guns for your purpose.

If B is the answer, there could be different reasons for why your collection is the way it is, such as you acquired them prior to your SHTF plans, or you listed every gun in the house, including some of the guns that other people in your home own.

I will say from personal experience, there's nothing wrong with having some toys to play with, but my toys aren't part of my plan, they are just that, my toys. My home defense plan includes only a couple of guns. If I need to adapt to a hunting scenario instead of a defense scenario, that's where my hunting rifle comes in with one of my pistols.

I guess what I'm getting at is, it doesn't seem like you have a lot of ammo for any of the guns in your plan besides the .22. You've got a collection of firearms, without much thought to how fast you can blow through the ammo when it comes down to it. The bad thing is, you can't carry and shoot all 9 guns at once, you can only shoot one. You may want to consider consolidating your collection to something a little more manageable, and if you sell some of them, use the proceeds to get some ammo!!

Of course, if money isn't tight, keep the guns you have (I hate selling my guns!!) and invest in more ammo for the guns in which you have a strategic plan.

I live in a densely populated area, so my focus is on home/personal defense, with the next most important thing being the ability to hunt for food. With this in mind, I have a lot of ammo for my AR, and only a couple hundred rounds for my 30-30, since the AR would typically be sending a lot of ammo down range at once, while hunting for food would (Hopefully, HA!) mean one round of ammo would = one kill.

In a perfect world, I would hope to see at least a minimum of a thousand rounds of ammo for each gun. Not each caliber, each gun, so if you have 2 guns that are 9mm, then you need at least 2,000 rounds of 9mm. But my numbers aren't there yet either, but it's just what I hope to acquire.
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Old 11-15-2012, 23:31   #19
RWBlue
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Originally Posted by Syclone538 View Post
I've never seen one, and I've looked. The closest I've seen is to have a fixed choke barrel drilled and tapped for rem choke, or have the 870 tactical ghost ring sight barrel drilled and tapped for a rear rifle sight. (Though I'm not 100% sure the front sight is the same.)

Buying a barrel then having it drilled and tapped seems like a lot to shorten up my gun by 1.5". Though I'm sure I'll do it eventually.
There is this one.
Remington Barrel Remington 870 12 Gauge 3" 18-1/2" Modified Choke with Tritium Rifle Sights Parkerized
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/921...hts-parkerized
But it doesn't look like the chokes are screw in.

Then there is Remington Slug Barrel Remington 870 Special Purpose 12 Gauge 3" 20" Rem Choke with Rifled Choke, Rifle Sights Matte

I am beginning to think that I have the second barrel and replaced the rifled choke with a modified I had. As a side note the rifled choke was not bad with the saboted slugs at the time, but I wanted a do it all shotgun, not a deer only shotgun.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:32   #20
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Originally Posted by RWBlue View Post
Hard question, but here goes.
I decided on 1K of SD ammo and 10K of practice ammo for each gun. I decided on 11 magazines for gun requiring magazines. Someone said, that is a HELL of a lot of ammo. I tell them, I don't plan on surviving a conflict where I have to use my 1K of SD ammo. This is just in case the laws change and I can NEVER buy ammo again. This being said, I have never reached my goal numbers.

As for what guns to have for SHTF, I don't like your collection. This is what I would get. Then I would buy for the rest of the family. Then I would get spare parts and/or duplicates/replacements. Assuming money and desire.

For personal protection:
1. Micro CCW, (Bersa 380 fits, but I don't like 380. I would grab a micro 9.)
2. Full sized sidearm, (Glock 21SF fits, but can everyone in the family use it? And it is not in the same cartridge as the micro ccw.)
3. Rifle/carbine, (AR-15 fits depending on how it is tricked out. Remember most attacks happen between dusk and dawn.)
4. Do it all shotgun, (20 ga double barrel does not fit this role. There are several shotguns which could fit this role. I found a Remington 870 with a sidesaddle, ammo on the stock, 18.5 rifle sights and screw in modified choke is a pretty good do it all shotgun.)

Bonus points for:
5. SBR (pocket rifles are great as a multi-purpose platform. I am addicted to SBRs.)
6. Heavy long range gun (I still need a BIG heavy like a 50BMG McMillian. Your 308 is at best a medium. With the time I have to practice and my current skill set, all I have is several mediums.)

Practice tools:
1. 22lr handgun or conversion
2. 22lr rifle or conversion (Your .22lr M&P rifle fits)

Hunting:
1. See the "Do it all shotgun" above. Get a second of whatever and don't trick it out tactically. The full length barrel is better for flying things, but the 18.5 with modified choke is great for deer to rabbits.
2. If has been said that everything in North American can be hunted with a 30-06. I believe it is true, but not the best idea. I would suggest doing the 4 gun battery. Light=22LR (See practice gun above), Varmint=222 through 22-250, Medium 243 though 300 Weatherby Mag (the core deer cartridges), Heavy 338 through 600N (This is to keep elephants out of your yard. So far I have not had any elephant in my yard since I got my 458WM. It can also be loaded down and used for deer.)
3. Combo gun. I want a 12ga over 308. I will get one. When I need food and don't know what I will find to kill......it will be my game getter gun.
While I don't entirely agree with this - I like it.
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