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Old 11-28-2012, 18:16   #1
Comrade Bork
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Let's write a revised Moral Code.

"Morality" is the yardstick with which we measure acceptable versus unacceptable human behavior.

The goal of this is to provide for a stable society, within which we all may flourish to the best of our ability.

I do not believe it is necessary for morality to be based upon religious principals.

I think it is enough that a moral precept either works or not.

The 10 Commandments are as good a place to start as any.

First off, I think the first five commandments can be junked and ignored.

"I am your God, You have no other Gods, You will make no graven images of other Gods, You will not diss me by taking my name in vain. You will worship my glorious self".

Are of any relevence only IF "God" actually exists.

An existence that the religiously inclined can never seem to prove to be an unmistakeable truth.

It is always based on "faith", which is to say it is nothing more than "opinion", since God, if he/she/it actually does exist, does not seem to ever make that existence unmistakeably clear to all.

I believe that Moses himself wrote the 1st Five Commandments for their practical effect, which was to place all authority over the State of Israel that he founded, firmly in his own, personal, MORTAL, hands and keep it there during his own lifetime and keep it there within his own family, the Levites, thereafter.

"King" Moses (in all but name) and the "Royal Family of Levi" that he made supreme over the other Tribes of Israel, who were thereafter, the serfs and cannon fodder for the "Holy" Levites.

So as to C's I through V, scrap 'em.

In terms of "morality" they are irrelevent.

So, the basis for REAL morality is found in the second Five of the Commandments.

Honor your Parents. Do not Murder. Do not have sex with anyone you are not married to. Do not steal. Do not covet things you have no right to.

Failure to observe and enforce any of these latter five are generally disruptive to the stability of any Sociey as a whole.

And thus, these are correct examples of "Proper Morality" and violations of them are "Immorality".

It is difficult for individuals, or families, to flourish if they have to exist in an unstable environment/society.

There is an ancient Chinese curse that says "May you live in interesting times". "Interesting" being defined as things like wars sweeping through your country, famines, plagues, fire, flood, earthquake, and the like.

"Uninteresting" meant stable.

I would add several more.

11. Thou shalt not initiate violence against another.

12. Thou shalt not suffer another to initiate violence against thyself.

(Offensive violence is immoral and unacceptable, Defensive violence is moral and acceptable)

13. Thou shalt not act in callous disregard of the well being of others.

(Such as, dealing in drugs to enrich yourself by shortening or ending the lives of others.)

Who wants to take a swing at #14 and beyond?


Last edited by Comrade Bork; 11-29-2012 at 13:29..
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Old 11-28-2012, 19:01   #2
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A moral code based upon what exactly?
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Old 11-28-2012, 20:59   #3
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A moral code based upon what exactly?
Based on the fact that grownups can have a conversation about how they'd like to be treated and how to treat others. Then they can agree to adhere to some very basic rules and follow through with that.

The problem is in separating the perceived injustices from the actual ones. For instance, you might take issue with somebody boinking your wife. That's between you and her, not the government and the guy she escaped boredom for a day with.

Maybe you cussed out your drunk father and crackhead mother because they really deserve it. Why do we need the law to step in and make determinations about the guilt level of every parent? Sounds like something they've been itching to do for some time anyway.
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Old 11-30-2012, 13:02   #4
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Based on the fact that grownups can have a conversation about how they'd like to be treated and how to treat others. Then they can agree to adhere to some very basic rules and follow through with that.

The problem is in separating the perceived injustices from the actual ones. For instance, you might take issue with somebody boinking your wife. That's between you and her, not the government and the guy she escaped boredom for a day with.

Maybe you cussed out your drunk father and crackhead mother because they really deserve it. Why do we need the law to step in and make determinations about the guilt level of every parent? Sounds like something they've been itching to do for some time anyway.
You have a very naive view of the human race. If this were possible, there wouldn't have been laws in the first place.
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Old 11-29-2012, 13:32   #5
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A moral code based upon what exactly?
Ah, Duuuuhhhhhhh!

A moral code based upon itself.

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Old 11-30-2012, 13:02   #6
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Ah, Duuuuhhhhhhh!

A moral code based upon itself.

Good luck with that.
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Old 11-30-2012, 14:33   #7
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Good luck with that.
We can't possibly do any worse than what religion has offered.
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Old 11-30-2012, 14:53   #8
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We can't possibly do any worse than what religion has offered.

Yes we can, and we have.
We've done a lot worse than what God had planned for Mankind.

The world we live in today is a direct result of man turning away from God.
God could have done a lot better job, if only we would have let him.

..

Last edited by JBnTX; 11-30-2012 at 14:54..
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Old 12-02-2012, 19:58   #9
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Good luck with that.
Morality is like the US Dollar.

It has value because we all agree that it has value.

If we did not agree that it has value, it would only be not-terribly-good toilet paper.

Morality does not have to be "backed" by anything but our mutual agreement that it works and we all agree to abide by it.

And punish those who do not abide by it.

Last edited by Comrade Bork; 12-02-2012 at 20:02..
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Old 12-04-2012, 02:12   #10
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Ah, Duuuuhhhhhhh!

A moral code based upon itself.


From what I've seen from you, you like to instigate anger and arguments. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously on the subject of morality?

Now spew forth your anger and hatred in your reply to my post, and prove me correct

Last edited by dave109; 12-04-2012 at 02:14..
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:22   #11
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From what I've seen from you, you like to instigate anger and arguments. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously on the subject of morality?

Now spew forth your anger and hatred in your reply to my post, and prove me correct
Instigate Arguments? Yes.

Instigate Anger? Not so much.

I was trying to point out that "morality" based on the 1st five Commandments, is nothing more than useless claptrap designed to keep us all subservient to the shamans.

Am I angry about 10,000 + years of mind control manipulation by the shamans that continues to this day?

You betcherass.
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Old 11-28-2012, 19:05   #12
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Religious Issues
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Old 11-28-2012, 19:13   #13
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You guys are way over thinking things...

Don't be a dick.

Only morality anyone will ever need.

Last edited by token5gtd; 11-28-2012 at 19:14..
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:50   #14
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You guys are way over thinking things...

Don't be a dick.

Only morality anyone will ever need.
From two of our greatest modern philosophers, the foundation of a true morality:

Hey, hey, hey — don't be mean. We don't have to be mean. 'Cause, remember: no matter where you go... there you are.

and

Be nice until it's time to not be nice.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:54   #15
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Be nice until it's time to not be nice.
Yeah, that works fine until you realize how many people there are who don't have the same definition of "nice" as you do.

Like the person, who stabs you in the heart, because he decided the way you looked at him, wasn't "nice".

Without a standard, everything is relative, especially morality and ethics.
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Last edited by series1811; 12-03-2012 at 09:54..
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Old 12-03-2012, 15:56   #16
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Yeah, that works fine until you realize how many people there are who don't have the same definition of "nice" as you do.

Like the person, who stabs you in the heart, because he decided the way you looked at him, wasn't "nice".

Without a standard, everything is relative, especially morality and ethics.
Offensive violence is immoral.

Defensive violence is moral.

If someone initiates violence and stabs you in the heart, (a) you should have been able to defend youself and prevent it, or (b) if you are dead, we will execute him as a murderer.

Morality upheld.

Of course, still sucks for you!
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Old 12-03-2012, 16:46   #17
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Originally Posted by Comrade Bork View Post
Offensive violence is immoral.

Defensive violence is moral.

If someone initiates violence and stabs you in the heart, (a) you should have been able to defend youself and prevent it, or (b) if you are dead, we will execute him as a murderer.

Morality upheld.

Of course, still sucks for you!
By what rules will you execute him as a murderer?
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Old 12-03-2012, 22:09   #18
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Yeah, that works fine until you realize how many people there are who don't have the same definition of "nice" as you do.

Like the person, who stabs you in the heart, because he decided the way you looked at him, wasn't "nice".

Without a standard, everything is relative, especially morality and ethics.
But we do have a standard. Be nice. Nice, like murder, is a function of the defining society.

I think most would agree that if someone is trying to stab you in the heart, it's time to not be nice.
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Last edited by Animal Mother; 12-03-2012 at 22:17..
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:19   #19
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But we do have a standard. Be nice. Nice, like murder, is a function of the defining society.

I think most would agree that if someone is trying to stab you in the heart, it's time to not be nice.
So you think that "nice" is an objective standard that everyone can agree on?
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Old 12-03-2012, 19:48   #20
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From two of our greatest modern philosophers, the foundation of a true morality:

Hey, hey, hey — don't be mean. We don't have to be mean. 'Cause, remember: no matter where you go... there you are.

and

Be nice until it's time to not be nice.
Fast Times at Ridgemont High and Roadhouse...you sir, have excellent taste in cinemas classics.
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