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Old 12-02-2012, 06:01   #1
lethal tupperwa
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A Letter from Hobby Lobby Stores CEO

A Letter from Hobby Lobby Stores CEO

By David Green, the founder and CEO of Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc.When my family and I started our company 40 years ago, we were working out of a garage on a $600 bank loan, assembling miniature picture frames. Our first retail store wasn't much bigger than most people's living rooms, but we had faith that we would succeed if we lived and worked according to God's word. From there, Hobby Lobby has become one of the nation's largest arts and crafts retailers, with more than 500 locations in 41 states. Our children grew up into fine business leaders, and today we run Hobby Lobby together, as a family.We're Christians, and we run our business on Christian principles. I've always said that the first two goals of our business are (1) to run our business in harmony with God's laws, and (2) to focus on people more than money. And that's what we've tried to do. We close early so our employees can see their families at night. We keep our stores closed on Sundays, one of the week's biggest shopping days, so that our workers and their families can enjoy a day of rest. We believe that it is by God's grace that Hobby Lobby has endured, and He has blessed us and our employees. We've not only added jobs in a weak economy, we've raised wages for the past four years in a row. Our full-time employees start at 80% above minimum wage.But now, our government threatens to change all of that. A new government health care mandate says that our family business MUST provide what I believe are abortion-causing drugs as part of our health insurance. Being Christians, we don't pay for drugs that might cause abortions, which means that we don't cover emergency contraception, the morning-after pill or the week-after pill. We believe doing so might end a life after the moment of conception, something that is contrary to our most important beliefs. It goes against the Biblical principles on which we have run this company since day one. If we refuse to comply, we could face $1.3 million PER DAY in government fines.Our government threatens to fine job creators in a bad economy. Our government threatens to fine a company that's raised wages four years running. Our government threatens to fine a family for running its business according to its beliefs. It's not right. I know people will say we ought to follow the rules; that it's the same for everybody. But that's not true. The government has exempted thousands of companies from this mandate, for reasons of convenience or cost. But it won't exempt them for reasons of religious belief.So, Hobby Lobby � and my family � are forced to make a choice. With great reluctance, we filed a lawsuit today, represented by the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, asking a federal court to stop this mandate before it hurts our business. We don't like to go running into court, but we no longer have a choice. We believe people are more important than the bottom line and that honoring God is more important than turning a profit.My family has lived the American dream. We want to continue growing our company and providing great jobs for thousands of employees, but the government is going to make that much more difficult. The government is forcing us to choose between following our faith and following the law. I say that's a choice no American � and no American business � should have to make.The government cannot force you to follow laws that go against your fundamental religious belief. They have exempted thousands of companies but will not except Christian organizations including the Catholic church.Since you will not see this covered in any of the liberal media, pass this on to all your contacts.Sincerely,David Green, CEO and Founder of Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:40   #2
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No surprise, the story's true. Of course, there's a little more to it, but it's true,

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/hobbylobby.asp
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:46   #3
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I just bought some things at Hobby Lobby this week, and will be going back Monday for some more.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:52   #4
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He doesn't understand what the morning after pill does. It prevents pregnancy, it doesn't terminate a pregnancy.
I disagree with most of his beliefs but I respect that he's fighting to run his own company the way he wants to. Good for him.
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Old 12-02-2012, 21:31   #5
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He doesn't understand what the morning after pill does. It prevents pregnancy, it doesn't terminate a pregnancy.
I disagree with most of his beliefs but I respect that he's fighting to run his own company the way he wants to. Good for him.
A fine point.... The man believes human life begins at CONCEPTION the moment the sperm enters the egg which usually takes place in the fallopian tubes, then the zygote travels on into the uterus, IMPLANTATION is that zygote (human life) attaching to the uterus to grow, so the morning after pill by preventing implantation of a zygote causes a human life to be terminated or in other words "aborted", so he IS dead on in his beliefs.
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Old 12-02-2012, 13:55   #6
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Since it's a privately held company, we'll never know how the boycott is working.
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Old 12-02-2012, 14:04   #7
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That's funny. I didn't know the owners of Hobby Lobby were so ignorant. Well I hope they enjoy their beliefs putting them right out of business. You can't fix stupid.
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Old 12-02-2012, 15:02   #8
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They want to use freedom of religion to force their religious views on their employees? What's wrong with letting the people that work for them follow their own religious beliefs, seeing as how they're such fervent supporters of religious freedom?

Nobody is forcing anyone to take these contraceptives. If all the employees are "good Christians" in the same mold as the owners, they won't buy them, problem solved.

Sure way to really look at it fairly is to take it out of the personal arena, say if you happen to be against the morning after pill, you may feel they're justified. Ask yourself this: Do Jehovah Witness owned businesses get to refuse to cover blood transfusions in their medical coverage? You can see where this gets ridiculous.

Do people who get exemptions from military service on religious grounds get to not pay the part of their taxes that funds wars?

I don't see much merit in their lawsuit, though I understand how they must feel having thought themselves into this dilemma.

That's how I see it anyway. Not that that matters. The courts will look to law and precedent to see how this shakes out.

Randy

Last edited by steveksux; 12-02-2012 at 15:04..
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Old 12-02-2012, 15:17   #9
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They want to use freedom of religion to force their religious views on their employees? What's wrong with letting the people that work for them follow their own religious beliefs, seeing as how they're such fervent supporters of religious freedom?

Nobody is forcing anyone to take these contraceptives. If all the employees are "good Christians" in the same mold as the owners, they won't buy them, problem solved.

Sure way to really look at it fairly is to take it out of the personal arena, say if you happen to be against the morning after pill, you may feel they're justified. Ask yourself this: Do Jehovah Witness owned businesses get to refuse to cover blood transfusions in their medical coverage? You can see where this gets ridiculous.

Do people who get exemptions from military service on religious grounds get to not pay the part of their taxes that funds wars?

I don't see much merit in their lawsuit, though I understand how they must feel having thought themselves into this dilemma.

That's how I see it anyway. Not that that matters. The courts will look to law and precedent to see how this shakes out.

Randy
It's their religious freedom to force their beliefs on others. That's what Christianity is all about. Choosing how to live your life through Christ and then making sure no one else has an option to do otherwise.
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Old 12-02-2012, 15:26   #10
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It's their religious freedom to force their beliefs on others. That's what Christianity is all about. Choosing how to live your life through Christ and then making sure no one else has an option to do otherwise.
That is not how I live my life, and I am a Christian.

Edit: Let me add that that is not what Christianity is all about. If an atheist is a dick it does not mean that all atheists are as well. If someone reads love your neighbor as yourself and decides that means they should hate everyone that does not believe as they do it does not reflect on what they were told to do, but on their failure to do it.

Last edited by ArrowJ; 12-02-2012 at 15:31..
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Old 12-02-2012, 15:37   #11
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That is not how I live my life, and I am a Christian.

Edit: Let me add that that is not what Christianity is all about. If an atheist is a dick it does not mean that all atheists are as well. If someone reads love your neighbor as yourself and decides that means they should hate everyone that does not believe as they do it does not reflect on what they were told to do, but on their failure to do it.
Good for you. But you can see where these business owners are attempting to withhold benefits from their employees in an attempt to force their beliefs on others. Steve is 100% correct... if the employees are such good christians... then they won't need the contraceptives.
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Old 12-02-2012, 15:45   #12
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Good for you. But you can see where these business owners are attempting to withhold benefits from their employees in an attempt to force their beliefs on others. Steve is 100% correct... if the employees are such good christians... then they won't need the contraceptives.
I tend to be a libertarian which means I think the store OWNER has the right to refuse, and the EMPLOYEE has the right to tell him to suck a lemon and get a different job. The CUSTOMERS then have the right to not shop at Hobby Lobby and put him out of business, and the GOVERNMENT has the right to go jump off a bridge.

I think I am more interested in hearing you explain what Christianity is about. Which part of the gospel is it that implies your position?
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Old 12-02-2012, 16:31   #13
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I tend to be a libertarian which means I think the store OWNER has the right to refuse, and the EMPLOYEE has the right to tell him to suck a lemon and get a different job. The CUSTOMERS then have the right to not shop at Hobby Lobby and put him out of business, and the GOVERNMENT has the right to go jump off a bridge.
Yeah... great idea. Have people quit the job that feeds their family because the boss is pushing his religious nonsense on them. Great plan.

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I think I am more interested in hearing you explain what Christianity is about. Which part of the gospel is it that implies your position?
Are we talking about the religion itself or the Christians themselves? It's two different things. Christianity has some nice ideals. They aren't in any way unique to Christianity but still nice nonetheless.

However Christians often ignore their own doctrine or base the entirety of their belief around one snipit of scripture. Then they want to enforce it on all people. It isn't good enough that they believe it and live it daily... they want everyone else to. They believe it's wrong to drink on Sunday. So they vote to make laws that alcohol sales are illegal on sunday. They feel abortion is immoral. Rather than simply avoiding it themselves they attempt to have legislation passed so that no one else be allowed to violate their ideals. You see the pattern here. Then you hear Christians equate things like homosexuality to having sex with animals or children. Showing their true bigotry and disgusting ignorance.This country would run so much smoother if religious people would just mind their own damn business and stop trying to control everyone's lives via THEIR idea of morality.
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Old 12-02-2012, 19:56   #14
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Yeah... great idea. Have people quit the job that feeds their family because the boss is pushing his religious nonsense on them. Great plan.
I have a better plan. Lets have a boycott and put the company out of business so the boss can't push his religious nonsense on them. Of course that will mean they are out of work and won't have health insurance but it will be worth it because we showed them, didn't we. Great plan.

The other alternative is simply don't provide health insurance. Hire more part time people and reduce most of your full-timers to part-time. You don't even have to provide full time salaried employees with health insurance. You can simply pay the fine and let them pay for their own at the government run health insurance exchange out of their own pocket. There are enough unemployed in this economy who would rather not be a drain on this country that I'm sure he could fill all the positions.

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Old 12-02-2012, 20:34   #15
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I have a better plan. Lets have a boycott and put the company out of business so the boss can't push his religious nonsense on them. Of course that will mean they are out of work and won't have health insurance but it will be worth it because we showed them, didn't we. Great plan.

The other alternative is simply don't provide health insurance. Hire more part time people and reduce most of your full-timers to part-time. You don't even have to provide full time salaried employees with health insurance. You can simply pay the fine and let them pay for their own at the government run health insurance exchange out of their own pocket. There are enough unemployed in this economy who would rather not be a drain on this country that I'm sure he could fill all the positions.

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Yes! That's the plan we're going with. If Green wants to make a big stink about his faith over someone else's healthcare then he'll have to do it at the risk of his business. This twerp is actually claiming some authority over what a health benefit package covers and he's using his religion to do it. I wonder if he thinks his employee's salaries are not to be used to buy unchristian material since it's him paying the salaries after all.

If there are enough people that are sick of hearing this self righteous BS and can hurt his business enough by not shopping there then he'll have to either apologize and cave or let the place go under. Then it can be bought by someone that doesn't care about birth control or absorbed by it's competitors. End result is that less uptight individuals end up running the show and everybody is happier.
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Old 12-02-2012, 20:48   #16
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Yes! That's the plan we're going with. If Green wants to make a big stink about his faith over someone else's healthcare then he'll have to do it at the risk of his business. This twerp is actually claiming some authority over what a health benefit package covers and he's using his religion to do it. I wonder if he thinks his employee's salaries are not to be used to buy unchristian material since it's him paying the salaries after all.

If there are enough people that are sick of hearing this self righteous BS and can hurt his business enough by not shopping there then he'll have to either apologize and cave or let the place go under. Then it can be bought by someone that doesn't care about birth control or absorbed by it's competitors. End result is that less uptight individuals end up running the show and everybody is happier.

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Old 12-03-2012, 13:52   #17
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Lets have a boycott and put the company out of business so the boss can't push his religious nonsense on them. Of course that will mean they are out of work and won't have health insurance but it will be worth it because we showed them, didn't we. Great plan.
I didn't suggest a boycott. And I'm sure the owners of HL won't fold up shop. They'll lose their law suit and have to step in line with government regulations. And that will be the end of it.

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The other alternative is simply don't provide health insurance. Hire more part time people and reduce most of your full-timers to part-time.
Lots of places are doing that. I think quality will begin to suffer though as a result. Employees are assets when treated well.
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Old 12-02-2012, 18:18   #18
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I tend to be a libertarian which means I think the store OWNER has the right to refuse, and the EMPLOYEE has the right to tell him to suck a lemon and get a different job. The CUSTOMERS then have the right to not shop at Hobby Lobby and put him out of business, and the GOVERNMENT has the right to go jump off a bridge.
Rights are not absolute. I tend towards libertarian also. The business owner has the right to choose not to use the contraceptives deemed un-christian. Give the employees the same right.

I see a parallel with the US Constitution at the beginning. I'm not terribly impressed with the notion that "rights" guaranteed under the Constitution are only protected from the Feds intervening, while leaving the states free to infringe on them. So much for "inalienable" rights.

As a libertarian I tend to prefer rights to filter all the way down to the individuals making decisions about their own lives. Rather than stopping off at something further up the food chain, giving certain entities or individuals the right to make those decisions over other peoples lives , including when those choices do not match mine. You either respect people's freedom, or you try to impose yours on others. Jesus had a whole bunch of former fishermen for disciples. He didn't enlist their expertise to throw nets over people. He let them choose to follow, or not.

There's room for reasonable compromise here. There's likely a very small % of the cost of coverage needed to pay for those contraceptives in question, seeing as how they're used so rarely. Apparently the owner doesn't have a problem with normal birth control stuff, just morning after and week after pills. Let those people pay the difference to get the extra coverage.

As a general rule, freedom should be maximized. Given the choice I'd rather have a few business owners restricted to allow a bunch of employees to exercise their discretion, vs a few business owners having the discretion to restrict many employees.

Having said that, I realize there's a vast difference between restricting access to these drugs, and restricting insurance coverage for these drugs. The employees are free to pay for them on their own. The principle becomes much more important when you get into things generally too expensive to pay for without insurance coverage.

So I see this as a fairly weak case to force employers to provide coverage from that standpoint.

Randy

Last edited by steveksux; 12-02-2012 at 18:26..
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Old 12-02-2012, 19:52   #19
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There's room for reasonable compromise here. There's likely a very small % of the cost of coverage needed to pay for those contraceptives in question, seeing as how they're used so rarely. Apparently the owner doesn't have a problem with normal birth control stuff, just morning after and week after pills. Let those people pay the difference to get the extra coverage.
The most reasonable compromise would be for Green to acknowledge that after pills don't cause abortion. They prevent implantation. I know he's been informed of that fact many times and he could ask a professional's opinion if he really wanted to know. This is about the right to remain ignorant and have it adversely affect employees.
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Old 12-02-2012, 20:04   #20
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The most reasonable compromise would be for Green to acknowledge that after pills don't cause abortion. They prevent implantation. I know he's been informed of that fact many times and he could ask a professional's opinion if he really wanted to know. This is about the right to remain ignorant and have it adversely affect employees.
Josef Rudolf Mengele was a professional.

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Old 12-02-2012, 16:50   #21
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Yeah... great idea. Have people quit the job that feeds their family because the boss is pushing his religious nonsense on them. Great plan.



Are we talking about the religion itself or the Christians themselves? It's two different things. Christianity has some nice ideals. They aren't in any way unique to Christianity but still nice nonetheless.

However Christians often ignore their own doctrine or base the entirety of their belief around one snipit of scripture. Then they want to enforce it on all people. It isn't good enough that they believe it and live it daily... they want everyone else to. They believe it's wrong to drink on Sunday. So they vote to make laws that alcohol sales are illegal on sunday. They feel abortion is immoral. Rather than simply avoiding it themselves they attempt to have legislation passed so that no one else be allowed to violate their ideals. You see the pattern here. Then you hear Christians equate things like homosexuality to having sex with animals or children. Showing their true bigotry and disgusting ignorance.This country would run so much smoother if religious people would just mind their own damn business and stop trying to control everyone's lives via THEIR idea of morality.
I see that we have a mutual distaste for the effect of "Heaven & Hell" Christianity on our society. You might find reading how someone like Marcus Borg approaches faith to be very refreshing.


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Old 12-02-2012, 16:56   #22
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Yeah... great idea. Have people quit the job that feeds their family because the boss is pushing his religious nonsense on them. Great plan.
I am not sure how to respond to that statement as it is emotive and not particularly productive.

Quote:
Are we talking about the religion itself or the Christians themselves?
I would think YOU would take the initiative to make that clear BEFORE you make blanket statements about what being a Christian is all about.

Quote:
This country would run so much smoother if religious people would just mind their own damn business and stop trying to control everyone's lives via THEIR idea of morality.
Regardless of their impetus, religious or otherwise, would the country not run a lot better if everyone would mind their own damn business?

If I understand your position correctly (please correct me if I am wrong) everyone should mind their own business unless their business is an actual business in which case everyone else should tell them what they can and cannot provide as benefits to THEIR employees. Would you not enforce your ideas of right and wrong as it relates to what a business owner should or should not be required to do as relates to employee benefits?

Why is it wrong for one group (Christians) to push their ideals on another (I agree, it is wrong), but not wrong for another group (those described above) to push their ideals on another?
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Old 12-02-2012, 17:08   #23
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I hope the court finds that they have to follow the law like everyone else. Then we'll see how strong their convictions are when they have to decide to end their business or pay for some lousy birth control.

I'll bet it'll be business as usual.
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Old 12-02-2012, 17:16   #24
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I hope the court finds that they have to follow the law like everyone else. Then we'll see how strong their convictions are when they have to decide to end their business or pay for some lousy birth control.

I'll bet it'll be business as usual.
Exactly. They'll toss their principles in the back seat if it means having to give up their millions.
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Old 12-02-2012, 17:37   #25
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I hope the court finds that they have to follow the law like everyone else. Then we'll see how strong their convictions are when they have to decide to end their business or pay for some lousy birth control.

I'll bet it'll be business as usual.
So you'd be OK if the gov. forced you to clothe, house, and feed a Haitian orphan or two???

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