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Old 01-05-2013, 07:12   #1
frank4570
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Should the republican party change?

I just want to see what you guys think. I'm thinking that if the republican party doesn't change it is going to loose. The population is changing and I think the republicans will no longer have the votes to do anything.
I don't claim to be an expert.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:19   #2
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They have to, in my opinion, or they may as well join the Democrat Party.

What we really need is for the states to start challenging the federal government when it goes outside of the powers givin to it by the COTUS.

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Old 01-05-2013, 18:03   #3
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They have to, in my opinion, or they may as well join the Democrat Party.
That's basically what's been happening. Both parties are slowly aligning as one. Yeah, they put on a show for the tv cameras but behind closed doors is a different story. Both parties are taking bribes from the same people to do what they want them to do.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:27   #4
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It's hard to sell self sufficiency and fiscal responsibility to a generation that Liberals have taught to be dependent upon the government for support and demand fiscal accommodations for everything from homes to food to cars to cellphones.

But it only takes one Hurricane Katrina to show just how stranded you will end up being.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:33   #5
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It's hard to sell self sufficiency and fiscal responsibility to a generation that Liberals have taught to be dependent upon the government for support and demand fiscal accommodations for everything from homes to food to cars to cellphones.

But it only takes one Hurricane Katrina to show just how stranded you will end up being.
But the response to such events is often times a demand for more government.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:43   #6
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But the response to such events is often times a demand for more government.
And political candidates/representatives of all parties compete for that vote.

Hence - the situation you have today.

It's a matter of "who can give me more free stuff" among a voting population of dependents.

Plus the education angle were people are taught that the .govt will provide for you, the .govt will protect you, the .govt is run by smarter people than you so they know what they are doing, etc.

It took about 50 years of continuous Liberal effort to get to this sorry situation.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:26   #7
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It's hard to sell self sufficiency and fiscal responsibility to a generation that Liberals have taught to be dependent upon the government for support and demand fiscal accommodations for everything from homes to food to cars to cellphones.
The only way for the Republicans to regain the WH and the Senate is to outpromise the Democrats. And, if you are going to do that, why not just give up and become a Democrat.

We can go ahead and speed up what is coming sooner or later anyway.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:31   #8
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The only way for the Republicans to regain the WH and the Senate is to outpromise the Democrats. And, if you are going to do that, why not just give up and become a Democrat.

We can go ahead and speed up what is coming sooner or later anyway.
That sounds too much like switching sides.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:39   #9
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That sounds too much like switching sides.
I'm not switching. I'm just not optimistic about how this all turns out. How do you reverse after you've passed the tipping point?
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Old 01-05-2013, 13:01   #10
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I'm not switching. I'm just not optimistic about how this all turns out. How do you reverse after you've passed the tipping point?
sounds crazy? nope....i totally get it.

this is not an easy fix, if at all. and the leeches of our country are not helping , and will not help. why work when you have welfare, ssi, and every other .gov handout to keep you from having to go to work?

why contribute? we'll tax the rich more....oddly, seems about 77% of the country suddenly ended up "rich" as of jan 1st.

this is going to get better? laughable.

fiscal cliff? yeah...we went over that a long time ago.

this government has become a soap opera.
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Old 01-05-2013, 16:34   #11
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I'm not switching. I'm just not optimistic about how this all turns out. How do you reverse after you've passed the tipping point?
I don't know if it can turn around for the better.

I refuse to try to make it worse.


"To the last, I will grapple with thee... from Hell's heart, I stab at thee! For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee! "

I'm in it to win it. I'm not giving up.

I can't.


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Text of the code

1. Code of the U.S. Fighting Force

a. As a member of the armed forces of the United States, you are protecting your nation. It is your duty to oppose all enemies of the United States in combat or, if a captive, in a prisoner of war compound. Your behavior is guided by the Code of Conduct, which has evolved from the heroic lives, experiences and deeds of Americans from the Revolutionary War to the Southeast Asian Conflict.
b. Your obligations as a U.S. citizen and a member of the armed forces result from the traditional values that underlie the American experience as a nation. These values are best expressed in the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights, which you have sworn to uphold and defend. You would have these obligations—our country, your service and unit and your fellow Americans—even if the Code of Conduct had never been formulated as a high standard of general behavior.
c. Just as you have a responsibility to your country under the Code of Conduct, the United States government has an equal responsibility—to keep faith with you and stand by you as you fight for your country. If you are unfortunate enough to become a prisoner of war, you may rest assured that your government will care for your dependents and will never forget you. Furthermore, the government will use every practical means to contact, support and gain release for you and for all other prisoners of war.
d. To live up to the code, you must know not only its words but the ideas and principles behind those words.
e. This pamphlet contains the code, an explanation of its principles and a statement of the standards expected of you.
f. The Code of Conduct is an ethical guide. Its six articles deal with your chief concerns as an American in combat; these concerns become critical when you must evade capture, resist while a prisoner or escape from the enemy.
g. Experiences of captured Americans reveal that to survive captivity honorably would demand from you great courage, deep dedication and high motivation. To sustain these personal values throughout captivity requires that you understand and believe strongly in our free and democratic institutions, love your country, trust in the justice of our cause, keep faithful and loyal to your fellow prisoners and hold firmly to your religious and moral beliefs in time of trial.
h. Your courage, dedication and motivation supported by understanding, trust and fidelity will help you endure the terrors of captivity, prevail over your captors and return to your family, home and nation with honor and pride.
i. The Code of Conduct for members of the Armed Forces of the United States was first promulgated by President Dwight D. Eisenhower Aug. 17, 1955. The code, including its basic philosophy, was reaffirmed on July 8, 1964, in DOD Directive No. 1300.7. In March 1988, President Ronald Reagan issued Executive Order 12633, amending the code with language that is gender–neutral, The code, although first expressed in written form in 1955, is based on time–honored concepts and traditions that date back to the days of the American Revolution.

2. Code of Conduct I

a. I am an American fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.
b. All men and women in the armed forces have the duty at all times and under all circumstances to oppose the enemies of the United States and support its national interests. In training or in combat, alone or with others, while evading capture or enduring captivity, this duty belongs to each American defending our nation regardless of circumstances.

3. Code of Conduct II

a. I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.
b. As an individual, a member of the armed forces may never voluntarily surrender. When isolated and no longer able to inflict casualties on the enemy, the American soldier has an obligation to evade capture and rejoin friendly forces.
c. Only when evasion by an individual is impossible and further fighting would lead only to death with no significant loss to the enemy should one consider surrender. With all reasonable means of resistance exhausted and with certain death the only alternative, capture does not imply dishonor.
d. The responsibility and authority of a commander never extends to the surrender of a command to the enemy while the command has the power to fight and evade. When isolated, cut off or surrounded, a unit must continue to fight until relieved or able to rejoin friendly forces through continued efforts to break out or evade the enemy.

4. Code of Conduct III

a. If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.
b. The duty of a member of the armed forces to use all means available to resist the enemy is not lessened by the misfortune of captivity. A POW is still legally bound by the Uniform Code of Military Justice and ethically guided by the Code of Conduct. Under provisions of the Geneva Convention, a prisoner of war is also subject to certain rules imposed by the captor nation. When repatriated, a prisoner of war will not be condemned for having obeyed reasonable captor rules, such as sanitation regulations. The duty of a member of the armed forces to continue to resist does not mean a prisoner should engage in unreasonable harassment as a form of resistance, retaliation by captors to the detriment of that prisoner and other prisoners is frequently the primary result of such harassment.
c. The Geneva Convention recognizes that a POW may have the duty to attempt escape. In fact, the Geneva Convention prohibits a captor nation from executing a POW simply for attempting escape. Under the authority of the senior official (often called the senior ranking officer, or SRO), a POW must be prepared to escape whenever the opportunity presents itself. In a POW compound, the senior POW must consider the welfare of those remaining behind after an escape. However, as a matter of conscious determination, a POW must plan to escape, try to escape and assist others to escape.
d. Contrary to the spirit of the Geneva Convention, many enemies who have captured American POW's since 1950, have regarded the POW compound as an extension of the battlefield. In doing so, they have used a variety of tactics and pressures, including physical and mental mistreatment, torture and medical neglect, to exploit POWs for propaganda purposes, to obtain military information or to undermine POW organization, communication and resistance.
e. Such enemies have attempted to lure American POWs into accepting special favors or privileges in exchange for statements, acts or information. Unless it is essential to the life or welfare of that person or another prisoner of war or to the success of efforts to resist or escape, a POW must neither seek nor accept special favors or privileges.
f. One such privilege is called parole. Parole is a promise by a prisoner of war to a captor to fulfill certain conditions such as agreeing not to escape nor to fight again once released—in return for such favors as relief from physical bondage, improved food and living conditions or repatriation ahead of the sick, injured or longer–held prisoners. An American POW will never sign nor otherwise accept parole.

5. Code of Conduct IV.

a. If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information nor take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.
b. Informing or any other action to the detriment of a fellow prisoner is despicable and is expressly forbidden. Prisoners of war must avoid helping the enemy identify fellow prisoners who may have knowledge of particular value to the enemy and who may, therefore, be made to suffer coercive interrogation.
c. Strong leadership and communication are essential to discipline. Discipline is the key to camp organization, resistance and even survival. Personal hygiene, camp sanitation and care of sick and wounded are imperative. Officers and non-commissioned officers of the United States must continue to carry out their responsibilities and exercise their authority in captivity. The senior, regardless of service, must accept command. This responsibility and accountability may not be evaded.
d. If the senior is incapacitated or is otherwise unable to act, the next senior person will assume command. Camp leaders should make every effort to inform all POWs of the chain of command and try to represent them in dealing with enemy authorities. The responsibility of subordinates to obey the lawful orders of ranking American military personnel remains unchanged in captivity.
e. The Geneva Convention Relative to Treatment of Prisoners of War provides for election of a "prisoners' representative" in POW camps containing enlisted personnel but no commissioned officers. American POWs should understand that such a representative is only a spokesman for the actual senior ranking person. Should the enemy appoint a POW chain of command for its own purposes, American POWs should make all efforts to adhere to the principles of Article IV.
f. As with other provisions of this code, common sense and the conditions of captivity will affect the way in which the senior person and the other POWs organize to carry out their responsibilities. What is important is that everyone support and work within the POW organization.

6. Code of Conduct V.

a. When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.
b. When questioned, a prisoner of war is required by the Geneva Convention and this code to give name, rank, service number (Social Security number) and date of birth. The prisoner should make every effort to avoid giving the captor any additional information. The prisoner may communicate with captors on matters of health and welfare and additionally may write letters home and fill out a Geneva Convention "capture card."
c. It is a violation of the Geneva Convention to place a prisoner under physical or mental duress, torture or any other form of coercion in an effort to secure information. If under such intense coercion, a POW discloses unauthorized information, makes an unauthorized statement or performs an unauthorized act, that prisoner's peace of mind and survival require a quick recovery of courage, dedication and motivation to resist anew each subsequent coercion.
d. Actions every POW should resist include making oral or written confessions and apologies, answering questionnaires, providing personal histories, creating propaganda recordings, broadcasting appeals to other prisoners of war, providing any other material readily usable for propaganda purposes, appealing for surrender or parole, furnishing self-criticisms and communicating on behalf of the enemy to the detriment of the United States, its allies, its armed forces or other POWs.
e. Every POW should also recognize that any confession signed or any statement made may be used by the enemy as a false evidence that the person is a "war criminal" rather than a POW. Several countries have made reservations to the Geneva Convention in which they assert that a "war criminal" conviction deprives the convicted individual of prisoner-of-war status, removes that person from protection under the Geneva Convention and revokes all rights to repatriation until a prison sentence is served.
f. Recent experiences of American prisoners of war have proved that, although enemy interrogation sessions may be harsh and cruel, one can resist brutal mistreatment when the will to resist remains intact.
g. The best way for a prisoner to keep faith with country, fellow prisoners and self is to provide the enemy with as little information as possible.

7. Code of Conduct VI

a. I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.
b. A member of the armed forces remains responsible for personal actions at all times.
c. A member of the armed forces who is captured has a continuing obligation to resist and to remain loyal to country, service, unit and fellow prisoners.
d. Upon repatriation, POWs can expect their actions to be reviewed, both as to circumstances of capture and conduct during detention. The purpose of such review is to recognize meritorious performance as well as to investigate possible misconduct. Each review will be conducted with due regard for the rights of the individual and consideration for the conditions of captivity; captivity of itself is not a condition of culpability.
e. Members of the armed forces should remember that they and their dependents will be taken care of by the appropriate service and that pay and allowances, eligibility and procedures for promotion and benefits for dependents continue while the service member is detained. Service members should assure that their personal affairs and family matters (such as pay, powers of attorney, current will and provisions for family maintenance and education) are properly and currently arranged. Failure to so arrange matters can create a serious sense of guilt for a POW and place unnecessary hardship on family members.
f. The life of a prisoner of war is hard. Each person in this stressful situation must always sustain hope and resist enemy indoctrination. Prisoners of war standing firm and united against the enemy will support and inspire one another in surviving their ordeal and in prevailing over misfortune with honor.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:31   #12
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I just want to see what you guys think. I'm thinking that if the republican party doesn't change it is going to loose. The population is changing and I think the republicans will no longer have the votes to do anything.
I don't claim to be an expert.
I think it is too late. The GOP is done.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:56   #13
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The GOP is one defection away from irrelevancy. If a charismatic young conservative such as Marco Rubio were to run on the Constitutional Party, the GOP would be toast. The road back has to be toward smaller government and stricter constitutionalism, not toward the democrats.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:58   #14
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The GOP is one defection away from irrelevancy. If a charismatic young conservative such as Marco Rubio were to run on the Constitutional Party, the GOP would be toast. The road back has to be toward smaller government and stricter constitutionalism, not toward the democrats.
You need to teach and effectively sell that concept to 47% of Americans that effectively pay no Federal income tax.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:17   #15
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You need to teach and effectively sell that concept to 47% of Americans that effectively pay no Federal income tax.
Boy Howdy ! ...

.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:55   #16
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You need to teach and effectively sell that concept to 47% of Americans that effectively pay no Federal income tax.
that is a huge part of the problem.

disaster? let the.gov fix it...look it just got bigger!

you are too lazy to work? no problem! the .gov will take your worries away! and look, it just grew ten-fold!

people have had the "gimme" mentality bred into them.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:58   #17
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The GOP is one defection away from irrelevancy. If a charismatic young conservative such as Marco Rubio were to run on the Constitutional Party, the GOP would be toast. The road back has to be toward smaller government and stricter constitutionalism, not toward the democrats.
The libertarian platform. You want this but said in another thread that you wouldn't support them??
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:02   #18
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The libertarian platform. You want this but said in another thread that you wouldn't support them??
I just don't think the two party system is going to be overturned by the LP. They've been around a long time and not made a dent. We need something fresh and new. WHIGS?
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:23   #19
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I just don't think the two party system is going to be overturned by the LP. They've been around a long time and not made a dent. We need something fresh and new. WHIGS?
Got Ya'.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:53   #20
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I just don't think the two party system is going to be overturned by the LP. They've been around a long time and not made a dent. We need something fresh and new. WHIGS?
the problem with the liberterian party is the average liberterian. if you talk to half of these folks, they suond like disjointed loons. (if this offends you, ask yourself honestly if i'm right)

can the liberterian party do it? hell yes. and now is the time. the r's are disgusted, the actual d's are pretty raunched out by what they have become. (jfk dems....is obama really what you are about?) and there is no rock star in either party for the upcoming elections.

but....you'd need someone with a track record, that is well spoken, and not going to be undone by the shirtless, standing on a corner screaming, holding up a gary johnson...legalize it, homemade sign. (swear to god....day before the election, any s.e.pa residents would know this intersection 132&263)

and that person has got to be gray. look at perot.( 2 words undid him. "you people"... he became a "racist" in 2 words). not a whole lot of info outside of his record.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:13   #21
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The GOP is one defection away from irrelevancy. If a charismatic young conservative such as Marco Rubio were to run on the Constitutional Party, the GOP would be toast. The road back has to be toward smaller government and stricter constitutionalism, not toward the democrats.
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I just don't think the two party system is going to be overturned by the LP. They've been around a long time and not made a dent. We need something fresh and new. WHIGS?
I agree that the LP isn't going to change much, and I vote for them more then everyone else combined.

But, what makes the CP better? I won't vote for someone that thinks the world is <10,000 years old, and I doubt I'm the only one.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:22   #22
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I agree that the LP isn't going to change much, and I vote for them more then everyone else combined.

But, what makes the CP better? I won't vote for someone that thinks the world is <10,000 years old, and I doubt I'm the only one.
So religious purging is your number one issue? That's sort of short sighted. Kind of like not helping someone bail water out of the sinking lifeboat you are in because they had the audacity to mutter a prayer in your presence.

Look at the exit polls listing the number one issue. The economy. The problem is that 51% of the voters think the solution to the economy is to give them other people's money.

I voted for more libertarians than Republicans this time around. There were a lot of judges running in the last election. Not a lot of Dems ran at all. So, I voted libertarian on every race I saw without an opposing Dem.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:20   #23
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Yes, they need to develop an actual marketing campaign, realizing that outspoken figures being heavily criticized by the Democrat-Media machine is a good thing...means they see you as a threat.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:41   #24
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Given changing demographics in the US, the R party must change or it will become irrelevant.

Change will be difficult because fractures in the party run deep. What is lacking, for one thing, is effective leadership. Without a smart, hard-nosed leader to pull the factions back together with a new Conservative vision, we are in for serious trouble for a long time.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:45   #25
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To directly answer your question irrespective of other replies, yes. They are no longer conservative. On a linear continuum 0-100. Where 0 is communism/facism and anarchism is 100, the Republican Party used to be around 60 and democrats 40. The way I see it now is the rp is now 40 and the dp 15-20 (being generous here). Is the tea party the replacement of the former rp? It certainly seems to be more conservative than the present day rp. So yes, they need to either complete their journey left and meld into the dp or come back to their conservative roots.
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