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Old 01-31-2013, 09:56   #1
audiomechanic
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Guidance for 2nd CC Gun

Hi everyone! This is Audiomechanic's wife.

Here's the delima. In gun shopping with my husband in December and testing guns at the range, I found that I'm not comfortable with guns that have a short grip and thus I went with the Glock 19 for my cc gun. I never shot the Glock 26 but when we were buying our guns, I was told that an extender can be put on the Glock 26.

One of the guns I tried shooting was the SigP238. Both my husband and I were all over the paper with that gun so I'm not sure what the deal was with that gun. I'm actually curious to try it again.

I never did shoot a revolver in all of my trying and I have no issues with racking the slide or shooting the gun. I am small though (5 ft 5 in and 125 lbs) so concealment isn't going to be easy for me.

My husband would like for me to have a compact semi auto but since I'm uncofortable with the length of the handles on so many, he wants me to get a revolver as a hopefully "right now" solution as he thinks that a shorter handle semi auto will not be an issue as I get more practice. We are looking now at me getting a hammerless snubbie (so that the hammer doesn't get caught on clothes). Like I said, I've yet to shoot one. I've heard that the recoil is strong b/c of the short barrel but I've also read online of numerous women perfering them over semi auto (which seems contridictary to me). The other question is calibur if I go with a revolver. He'd prefer me to have more "bang" since I'll have fewer bullets. Right now he'd like me to go with a .357 if I can handle it.

I realize that guns are a very personal decision but some kind of direction/input would be appreciated.

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Old 01-31-2013, 10:30   #2
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My wife has a full sized, 15 round .40; 5 shot .38 special revolver; .380 and 32.

The .40 is her night stand gun (Actually, next to the Rem. 870)
The .38 revolver is just to wide to carry, so it is her car gun.
The 32 is a last ditch, when all else fails, car gun.

The Kel-Tec P3AT is her carry gun. VERY thin, reasonable power and, as she had the same complaint as you, a 7 round extended mag for increased grip.

If you don't like the Kel-Tec, look into the Ruger .380 and see if they have an extended mag for it.

ETA: My wife is 135, 6'2". Very hard to carry concealed as everybody looks her over every time she enters anywhere.

ETA Again: I have a .357 revolver. While my wife CAN and DOES shoot it, she would never practice enough with it to be proficient. Now, it is an 11oz airweight, but shooting it is like holding a metal plate in your hand and letting someone hit it with a four pound hammer. (I raced cross country motorcycles for so many years, it doesn't bother me to shoot it. No worse than handlebars after hitting a big rock at 80mph)
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:56   #3
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Thank you for this.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:42   #4
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Just for the heck of it, why don't you let me know by PM what you finally decide on and why, and how it works for you, so I can add that to my mental data base, and maybe suggest it to my wife.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:18   #5
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Will do. Will likely be a few months yet before we can get her a 2nd gun, but will let you know what she decides on

Sent from my orifice.
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Old 02-01-2013, 20:39   #6
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In addition to my Glocks I also have a S&W 442 38 special. It has an internal hammer and its a snubby. I really like it. Right now it's my nightstand gun but I do take it with me when I walk the dog. I think you might like it. Try one out
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Old 02-01-2013, 21:55   #7
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In addition to my Glocks I also have a S&W 442 38 special. It has an internal hammer and its a snubby. I really like it. Right now it's my nightstand gun but I do take it with me when I walk the dog. I think you might like it. Try one out
that is what my wife has, but she finds the cylinder to wide for easy concealment carry. It just bulges in every things she wears. Her 3AT just slips under her waistband.

Glad yours suits your needs.
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Old 02-02-2013, 19:22   #8
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I carried an HK USP compact 9mm for 10 years on a 5'3" 125# frame. Basically, that means I wore it OWB under a jacket when weather allowed, and either in a fanny pack (when they were "fashionable" and I lived in a tourist town), or purse-carried it when the weather was hot or the clothes made hiding it impossible. I always carried the HK with the extension on the magazine, because the grip was just more comfortable with that extra length, and I was more accurate with it than without it.

Now I have a full size S&W M&P 9mm for under the big bulky coat in winter, or open carried on my own property (it's a farm, no one cares), and a little bitty (not really) M&P compact for putting in the purse, or hiding under less jacket.

I despise revolvers. I hate the grips. And I've jammed up an S&W 686 to the point it took tools to fix it - any trouble I've ever had with my semi-autos has been cleared with tap, rack, bang. YMMV.
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Old 02-02-2013, 20:37   #9
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It's the wife again. Thanks everyone for the help thus far. I went today to a large gun store in town and a man who was a police office for 30 years basically told me that all guns similar in size to the Sig P238 (that I shot in December) will shoot like that Sig and if I'm not comfortable with that Sig, I probably won't be comfortable with much else (shooting wise). He said that I just need to change my wardrobe to fit the gun (which I know). I told him that I don't want to shoot something less than .9mm in caliber. He said that I'm going to have an issue concealing a revolver and said I MIGHT be interested in a Sig P938. There's another range that I intend to start going to that I can rent one. Thank you Mrs. Cicero for your helpful advice.
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Old 02-02-2013, 20:55   #10
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I have a 238 and it was a little off. I had a g-smith smooth the trigger out a little. Now it is dead on. I don't know what he did other than remove a little grittiness. It is a great pistol. The 938 might rattle your hands a little. I haven't shot one, but heard it could be a little snotty. As far as the G26, you could use a G19 mag with a sleeve on it to fill the void. I forget what the brand is for the plastic sleeve. Also check out the Kimber Solo.
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Old 02-03-2013, 06:56   #11
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Originally Posted by audiomechanic View Post
It's the wife again. Thanks everyone for the help thus far. I went today to a large gun store in town and a man who was a police office for 30 years basically told me that all guns similar in size to the Sig P238 (that I shot in December) will shoot like that Sig and if I'm not comfortable with that Sig, I probably won't be comfortable with much else (shooting wise). He said that I just need to change my wardrobe to fit the gun (which I know). I told him that I don't want to shoot something less than .9mm in caliber. He said that I'm going to have an issue concealing a revolver and said I MIGHT be interested in a Sig P938. There's another range that I intend to start going to that I can rent one. Thank you Mrs. Cicero for your helpful advice.
The guns will shoot a lot alike, but some will be a lot more comfortable than others due to the grips. I like the M&P because it has three options that change the fatness of the grips, and you can easily switch them out to find the one that is the best size for your hands. My one issue with Glocks is the grips are too fat to be comfortable for me.
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Old 02-03-2013, 12:33   #12
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a really nice cc piece to look into is the Kahr CM, i carry the CM9 model & love it.
it comes with a 6rd flush fit mag from the factory for cc, or you can get a 7rd ext (MK720) that will fit your hand no problem for range use.
i'm a big guy & the 7rd setup fits my hand nicely, with that said the 6rd flush will fit you no problem.
they have a .40 also & in april there .45 will be available for purchase.
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Old 02-07-2013, 15:27   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomechanic View Post
Hi everyone! This is Audiomechanic's wife.

Here's the delima. In gun shopping with my husband in December and testing guns at the range, I found that I'm not comfortable with guns that have a short grip and thus I went with the Glock 19 for my cc gun. I never shot the Glock 26 but when we were buying our guns, I was told that an extender can be put on the Glock 26.

One of the guns I tried shooting was the SigP238. Both my husband and I were all over the paper with that gun so I'm not sure what the deal was with that gun. I'm actually curious to try it again.

I never did shoot a revolver in all of my trying and I have no issues with racking the slide or shooting the gun. I am small though (5 ft 5 in and 125 lbs) so concealment isn't going to be easy for me.

My husband would like for me to have a compact semi auto but since I'm uncofortable with the length of the handles on so many, he wants me to get a revolver as a hopefully "right now" solution as he thinks that a shorter handle semi auto will not be an issue as I get more practice. We are looking now at me getting a hammerless snubbie (so that the hammer doesn't get caught on clothes). Like I said, I've yet to shoot one. I've heard that the recoil is strong b/c of the short barrel but I've also read online of numerous women perfering them over semi auto (which seems contridictary to me). The other question is calibur if I go with a revolver. He'd prefer me to have more "bang" since I'll have fewer bullets. Right now he'd like me to go with a .357 if I can handle it.

I realize that guns are a very personal decision but some kind of direction/input would be appreciated.
You need to do the research and gun tryout yourself then make an informed decision. Snubnose resolvers are very hard to shoot well and that is for the seasoned shooter.

Nothing wrong with a snubbie, but as a first gun or one of the first guns to a beginner? I would recommend against it.


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Old 02-08-2013, 21:15   #14
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Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
You need to do the research and gun tryout yourself then make an informed decision. Snubnose resolvers are very hard to shoot well and that is for the seasoned shooter.

Nothing wrong with a snubbie, but as a first gun or one of the first guns to a beginner? I would recommend against it.


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I concur. Not only these facts, but short .38 barrels often do not allow bullets to get up to a velocity that allows hollowpoints to open up and expand. Generally, a 3 inch or longer barrel is needed, but make concealability more difficult.

My recommendation is to seriously look at some of the micro 9mm's now out on the market (S&W Shield, Beretta NANO, for example). If this size seems like it will work for you, try out as many different models as you can. This is a quickly growing segment with several varieties from which to choose.

Good luck.
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Old 02-08-2013, 21:39   #15
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I concur. Not only these facts, but short .38 barrels often do not allow bullets to get up to a velocity that allows hollowpoints to open up and expand. Generally, a 3 inch or longer barrel is needed, but make concealability more difficult.

My recommendation is to seriously look at some of the micro 9mm's now out on the market (S&W Shield, Beretta NANO, for example). If this size seems like it will work for you, try out as many different models as you can. This is a quickly growing segment with several varieties from which to choose.

Good luck.
It's the wife. Thanks so much for this sound advice. I've been doing lots of research this week. After reading the great input on this thread, I'm not sure that I will shoot a revolver or really want to. For many reasons, I do not think it's a good choice.

I've been looking at the Sig P238, Sig P938, Ruger LCR and Ruger LC380. I know lots of women go for the .380 ammo but I really would prefer to go no smaller than 9mm with a smaller gun. Both of the Sig's have longer barrels than the Rugers and both the Sigs and the Rugers have mag extensions. My husband would like me to try the Walther PPS too.

Please keep the input coming as it's been so helpful in my learning!
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Old 02-08-2013, 21:41   #16
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Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
You need to do the research and gun tryout yourself then make an informed decision. Snubnose resolvers are very hard to shoot well and that is for the seasoned shooter.

Nothing wrong with a snubbie, but as a first gun or one of the first guns to a beginner? I would recommend against it.


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Thanks so much for this input! I don't want to be discouraged but challenged and I don't think snubbies are the way to go for me. Getting something "over my head" would not be smart. I need to be able to comfortably control what I ultimately end up with.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:32   #17
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Originally Posted by audiomechanic View Post
Thanks so much for this input! I don't want to be discouraged but challenged and I don't think snubbies are the way to go for me. Getting something "over my head" would not be smart. I need to be able to comfortably control what I ultimately end up with.
My advise is for you to try to master basic marksmanship first and that means get some good professional trainings and then put to practice those trainings with lots of rounds being fired out of a .22LR pistol or revolver.

Carrying a firearm for self-defense is not something that should happen overnight. Many people get a wild hair, go out and buy an XYZ because so & so said to do it, fire it once or twice and put it away in a purse or night stand.

That's not protection. That's liability.

What I said about snubnose revolvers also go with mini pistols. They're just as hard to shoot as a snubbie, not to mention very finicky and cantankerous. Given the choice between a mini pistol and a snubbie, I'd take a snubbie - 5 for sure instead of 6 or 8 maybes.

Learn how to shoot fairly well so that when you go out and rent a gun or borrow a gun, you can evaluate on your own how well that gun shoots for you. Then put a price range to what you want to spend. Then think about what you want to do with the gun and how you plan on toting it around, or it will just sit at home in a drawer/safe/night stand. Then and only then buy the gun that fits you the best.

Also, if you were to plan on packing the gun, then you'd have to think about the mode and method of carrying: purse, ankle, thigh, belt, shoulder, armpit, belly band, ad nauseaum. Then you'll have to put a budget for purchasing said carrying devices.

Of course, don't forget about fund for ammo and range time for continual practice. Or additional training.

If you have money to spare, then buy a gun that strikes your fancy. If it turns out to be the wrong gun, then buy something else. Lather, rinse, repeat.

If your fund is limited then be smart about it and spend the time and effort up front getting trained up to the point where you can start to evaluate guns on your own with some inputs from others.

Maybe by then you'd realize that a snubnose revolver is what would suit you the best.

But if you really, really want some advices about getting something like right now, then I'd recommend a medium size pistol. Not a compact or mini pistol for the reasons above, but a medium size one. There are essentially four sizes for pistols: Large (or standard/service size), Medium, Compact and Mini (pocket pistol/super compact/whatever they want to call it).

A medium size pistol would have a barrel length between 3.5" and 4" depends on makes and models. Not too small and not too light. Smaller than service size for better carrying and concealment but not too small so as shooting is difficult.

Let's take Glock 9mm for instance, a G17 is full/service size, a G19 is a medium and the compact is G26. They don't have a mini yet.

Or a Beretta 9mm PX4 family for example: Full size PX4 has 4" barrel, compact (they used this word instead of medium) has 3.2" barrel, the subcompact has a 3" barrel. Then the Nano; which is not related to the PX4 model at all, is considered to be a "pocket pistol" BUT the barrel length is 3.07" barrel. It's small but still too big to fit into many pockets.

Of course there are the true pocket pistols that are generally chambered in .380 or smaller (.32ACP, .25ACP, .22LR).

There is always a trade off between convenience of carrying/concealment and shootability. Only YOU can determine which factor is more important to you. Some people prefer maximum concealment over shootability. Some prefer shootability over maximum concealment. Some want a compromise in the middle.

For the longest I preferred shootability over concealment so I tried to pack full size pistols. Nowadays, I go with the medium ones because they aren't as sensitive as the compact or mini. Actually, nowadays my main carrying pieces are snubnose revolvers. I realized that with the lifestyle that I have, the chances of me having to fight off a horde of gangsta thugs/biker gangs/terrorist jihadists are pretty slim, so I prefer the simplicity and portability of a snubbie.

However, that's just me and I can't speak for others. It's my choice to make based on my wants, needs, etc.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:56   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
My advise is for you to try to master basic marksmanship first and that means get some good professional trainings and then put to practice those trainings with lots of rounds being fired out of a .22LR pistol or revolver.

Carrying a firearm for self-defense is not something that should happen overnight. Many people get a wild hair, go out and buy an XYZ because so & so said to do it, fire it once or twice and put it away in a purse or night stand.

That's not protection. That's liability.

What I said about snubnose revolvers also go with mini pistols. They're just as hard to shoot as a snubbie, not to mention very finicky and cantankerous. Given the choice between a mini pistol and a snubbie, I'd take a snubbie - 5 for sure instead of 6 or 8 maybes.

Learn how to shoot fairly well so that when you go out and rent a gun or borrow a gun, you can evaluate on your own how well that gun shoots for you. Then put a price range to what you want to spend. Then think about what you want to do with the gun and how you plan on toting it around, or it will just sit at home in a drawer/safe/night stand. Then and only then buy the gun that fits you the best.

Also, if you were to plan on packing the gun, then you'd have to think about the mode and method of carrying: purse, ankle, thigh, belt, shoulder, armpit, belly band, ad nauseaum. Then you'll have to put a budget for purchasing said carrying devices.

Of course, don't forget about fund for ammo and range time for continual practice. Or additional training.

If you have money to spare, then buy a gun that strikes your fancy. If it turns out to be the wrong gun, then buy something else. Lather, rinse, repeat.

If your fund is limited then be smart about it and spend the time and effort up front getting trained up to the point where you can start to evaluate guns on your own with some inputs from others.

Maybe by then you'd realize that a snubnose revolver is what would suit you the best.

But if you really, really want some advices about getting something like right now, then I'd recommend a medium size pistol. Not a compact or mini pistol for the reasons above, but a medium size one. There are essentially four sizes for pistols: Large (or standard/service size), Medium, Compact and Mini (pocket pistol/super compact/whatever they want to call it).

A medium size pistol would have a barrel length between 3.5" and 4" depends on makes and models. Not too small and not too light. Smaller than service size for better carrying and concealment but not too small so as shooting is difficult.

Let's take Glock 9mm for instance, a G17 is full/service size, a G19 is a medium and the compact is G26. They don't have a mini yet.

Or a Beretta 9mm PX4 family for example: Full size PX4 has 4" barrel, compact (they used this word instead of medium) has 3.2" barrel, the subcompact has a 3" barrel. Then the Nano; which is not related to the PX4 model at all, is considered to be a "pocket pistol" BUT the barrel length is 3.07" barrel. It's small but still too big to fit into many pockets.

Of course there are the true pocket pistols that are generally chambered in .380 or smaller (.32ACP, .25ACP, .22LR).

There is always a trade off between convenience of carrying/concealment and shootability. Only YOU can determine which factor is more important to you. Some people prefer maximum concealment over shootability. Some prefer shootability over maximum concealment. Some want a compromise in the middle.

For the longest I preferred shootability over concealment so I tried to pack full size pistols. Nowadays, I go with the medium ones because they aren't as sensitive as the compact or mini. Actually, nowadays my main carrying pieces are snubnose revolvers. I realized that with the lifestyle that I have, the chances of me having to fight off a horde of gangsta thugs/biker gangs/terrorist jihadists are pretty slim, so I prefer the simplicity and portability of a snubbie.

However, that's just me and I can't speak for others. It's my choice to make based on my wants, needs, etc.
WOW there's awhole lot going on here...
the 1rst thing you need to do is go to a local show if possible, dry fit alot of diff models hold them to get a good feel.
i say go to a local show because alot of dealers (shops) don't have the stock now that they might of had 6 months ago in there local shop, thus when going into a local gun show you will be overcome by the amount of guns at your finger tips.
the most important thing about handeling a gun is the feel & fit in your hand, this makes a big diff on the way you shoot & the confidence that follows.
there are a ton of guns out there to test drive along with a wide range of price variences.

the last time i checked the
G17-Full
G19-Compact
G26-Sub Compact (AKA BABY GLOCK)
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Old 02-11-2013, 13:56   #19
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the last time i checked the
G17-Full
G19-Compact
G26-Sub Compact (AKA BABY GLOCK)
You can call it whatever you want to call it, but it's still no pocket pistol.

A manufacturere's "subcompact" is another manufacturer's "compact". A name is just a name. Basically you have three sizes in a typical pistol: big, medium, small. Pocket pistols or mini pistols or whatever you want to call it are usually of their own families and designs.

As far as dry firing and handling at gun shows or other places, that's great and all but it doesn't tell you how a gun actually shoots for you.
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Old 02-11-2013, 14:14   #20
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People need to get the idea out of their minds that revolvers never fail. All guns are machines and machines fail over time.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:23   #21
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People need to get the idea out of their minds that revolvers never fail. All guns are machines and machines fail over time.
I had one that over time just wouldn't hit anything. Finally realized the cylinder was out of time and shaving my bullets on the forcing cone, causing wide divergences in my grouping (Over 2' at 10 yards)

The manual with my .357 SW pd340 Air Weight states that you must check ammunition for bullet pulling, which can cause jamming, before selecting a brand and model of ammo to carry. (I have had some .357 cartridges grow substantially in my revolver after a couple of shots)

That being said, they fail far less often than complicated and sensitive auto-loaders.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:47   #22
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Duplicate post due to server failure.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:37   #23
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It's the wife. Thanks so much for this sound advice. I've been doing lots of research this week. After reading the great input on this thread, I'm not sure that I will shoot a revolver or really want to. For many reasons, I do not think it's a good choice.

I've been looking at the Sig P238, Sig P938, Ruger LCR and Ruger LC380. I know lots of women go for the .380 ammo but I really would prefer to go no smaller than 9mm with a smaller gun. Both of the Sig's have longer barrels than the Rugers and both the Sigs and the Rugers have mag extensions. My husband would like me to try the Walther PPS too.

Please keep the input coming as it's been so helpful in my learning!

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My vote is for the Sig P938. Here is mine with the 7 round extended magazine. If you decide on this gun, you really need to run about 300-500 rounds of at least 124gr ammo thru it before you carry it. The P938 is a little "snappy", but the extended mag allows you to get a better grip, and should help alleviate much of the recoil.


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Old 02-12-2013, 19:33   #24
audiomechanic
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It's the wife again....

I picked out my G19 (Christmas present) and I shot different guns at the range before I picked it out. I've been to the range every weekend since Christmas in prep for my CHL class on Feb 24. I've shot 1000 rounds thru my gun and then been shooting my husbands Glock (.40 cal) since ammo is so hard to find. Every other weekend except for this past weekend, I've been "warming up" in my time at the range with the .22 Ruger my husband has. I've yet to go to a gun show but I'm not to keen on the idea of spending the $ that a good gun costs to buy a gun that I've yet to shoot.

I do understand the thought process of method of carry and attire and how this plays into my purchase.

I personally feel that I'm in a much different place (better stance, better grip, better breathing,etc.) now than I was at the beginning of December when I shot that Sig P238. So I feel that if I were to try something along the lines of that gun, I might have a different opinion.

My husband has had no say in any of my gun choices thus far. When he wanted to give me the Ruger that had been passed down from his mom and I had told him how I didn't like it at all, he finally realized that since I made the choice to want to get into guns and want to get my CHL, I'd need something that I actually like. Yes, I'm new to this but at the same time, I do extensive research on everything before I delve into it.

I did go to a large gun shop a couple of weeks ago and the sales guy (older who was a retired cop) told me to stick with what I had but if he had to recommend something smaller, he said go with the Sig 938. I went to a new range this weekend and the guy there said that the 938 is still so new and they are working out the kinks. He did mention the "snappy" factor with it being smaller and having a higher caliber of ammo. Right now I'm leaning towards the 938 or the 238 instead of the Ruger LCR or LC380. I do intend to rent the 238 and 938. I really liked the feel of the 938 when I held it at the gun store but that doesn't mean I'll like it when I shoot it. My only concern (right now) with the idea of the 938 is the external safety. I do have to say that the 938 is pretty!

I'm still a ways away from getting something. Husband said it's going to be later this year. So between now and then, I have lots of time to grow and research.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:10   #25
fwm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomechanic View Post
My only concern (right now) with the idea of the 938 is the external safety. I do have to say that the 938 is pretty!
I agree. My wife and I agreed that all of our carry weapons would all have the same motions to fire. The same as her 642. Therefore, all our carry guns are DA, no safeties.

Back in the 70's, I had a couple of incidences where I had to pull a gun on criminal elements. Not having to jack around with a safety does increase a non-professionals speed.

(Yeah, I have heard the argument that if you practice enough with the safety you can become fast and proficient with it, but why devote all that time you don't have when you can just select a DA gun and not worry about it.) New, modern designed guns are safe enough that a safety is not really necessary. Ever see one on a revolver?
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Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42