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Old 05-12-2013, 11:22   #1
Flintlocker
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Gates: Some Benghazi critics have "cartoonish" view of military capability

http://www.kbzk.com/news/gates-some-...ry-capability/


"Frankly, had I been in the job at the time, I think my decisions would have been just as theirs were," said Gates, now the chancellor of the College of William and Mary.

"We don't have a ready force standing by in the Middle East, and so getting somebody there in a timely way would have been very difficult, if not impossible." he explained.

Suggestions that we could have flown a fighter jet over the attackers to "scare them with the noise or something," Gates said, ignored the "number of surface to air missiles that have disappeared from [former Libyan leader] Qaddafi's arsenals."

"I would not have approved sending an aircraft, a single aircraft, over Benghazi under those circumstances," he said.

Another suggestion posed by some critics of the administration, to, as Gates said, "send some small number of special forces or other troops in without knowing what the environment is, without knowing what the threat is, without having any intelligence in terms of what is actually going on on the ground, would have been very dangerous."


"It's sort of a cartoonish impression of military capabilities and military forces," he said. "The one thing that our forces are noted for is planning and preparation before we send people in harm's way, and there just wasn't time to do that."
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:35   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flintlocker View Post

"We don't have a ready force standing by in the Middle East, and so getting somebody there in a timely way would have been very difficult, if not impossible." he explained.

Suggestions that we could have flown a fighter jet over the attackers to "scare them with the noise or something," Gates said, ignored the "number of surface to air missiles that have disappeared from [former Libyan leader] Qaddafi's arsenals."

"I would not have approved sending an aircraft, a single aircraft, over Benghazi under those circumstances," he said.

Another suggestion posed by some critics of the administration, to, as Gates said, "send some small number of special forces or other troops in without knowing what the environment is, without knowing what the threat is, without having any intelligence in terms of what is actually going on on the ground, would have been very dangerous."


"It's sort of a cartoonish impression of military capabilities and military forces," he said. "The one thing that our forces are noted for is planning and preparation before we send people in harm's way, and there just wasn't time to do that."
Addressing the article:

Lie, the ready force was ordered to stand down.

Quote:
FOREIGN EMERGENCY SUPPORT TEAM (FEST)
The Foreign Emergency Support Team (FEST) is the U.S. government’s only interagency, on-call, short-notice team poised to respond to terrorist incidents worldwide. The FEST deploys to assist and advise the U.S. Chief of Mission in assessing crises and coordinating U.S. government crisis response activities. The FEST includes representatives from the Department of State, Department of Defense, the Intelligence Community, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and other appropriate agencies, such as Department of Energy, as circumstances warrant. FEST composition is flexible and tailored to the specific incident and U.S. Embassy needs. The FEST provides specialized crisis response expertise to augment existing U.S. Mission and host government capabilities.

http://www.state.gov/j/ct/programs/index.htm#FEST
We attacked Libya with air power in 2011 and flew planes in and out of Libya as a matter of routine.


Ok, we don't send in any air support because why?


Yeah, that's what rapid response teams do.

You don't always have time to plan raid, when you are responding to a surprise enemy attack. This hack is simply trying to protect the administration.
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Last edited by DonGlock26; 05-12-2013 at 11:42..
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:43   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonGlock26 View Post
Lie, the ready force was ordered to stand down.


One member of the quick reaction force died at the CIA compound.

Try not failing so hard next time you start speaking out of your arse.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:45   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flintlocker View Post
One member of the quick reaction force died at the CIA compound.

Try not failing so hard next time you start speaking out of your arse.
Source?
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:59   #5
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Originally Posted by DonGlock26 View Post
Source?
This is common knowledge and can be found from numerous credible sources, but probably not the disinformation factories that you pay attention to: His name was Glen Doherty.

Quote:
Various web sites that aggregated the Fox report on Oct. 26 bear witness to the difference in the story. The upshot: When Fox originally published its exclusive on Benghazi, it put Glen Doherty, a former Navy SEAL who was assisting with security in Libya, at the CIA annex as part of the team that mounted the initial response to the attack.


Gigantic problem with that assertion: Doherty was nowhere near Benghazi at the time that the attackers first assailed the dipolomatic mission. He was in Tripoli, more than 600 miles away, and would reach the CIA annex many hours later, just in time to participate in the pre-dawn battle that claimed his life.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...5445_blog.html
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:05   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flintlocker View Post
This is common knowledge and can be found from numerous credible sources, but probably not the disinformation factories that you pay attention to: His name was Glen Doherty.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...5445_blog.html
You seem to have painted yourself into a corner.




Your OP source made this claim:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flintlocker View Post

"We don't have a ready force standing by in the Middle East, and so getting somebody there in a timely way would have been very difficult, if not impossible." he explained.
Yet, you claimed this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flintlocker View Post
One member of the quick reaction force died at the CIA compound.

.
So which is it? You can't both be telling the truth.
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“Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.”

Last edited by DonGlock26; 05-12-2013 at 12:06..
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:47   #7
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One thing that seems curious to me is that discussions of response seem to center on Aviano, Italy and the forces there.
Did we not have carriers in the Med?
Seems that they would have been a lot closer, if they were indeed there.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:55   #8
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Originally Posted by Barcroft View Post
One thing that seems curious to me is that discussions of response seem to center on Aviano, Italy and the forces there.
Did we not have carriers in the Med?
Seems that they would have been a lot closer, if they were indeed there.
I have heard no mention of naval assets at all. I'm waiting for that to come out.

I'd also like to know where did the drone come from? Why wasn't to armed? Were armed drones available and ordered to stand down too? If there were armed drones available and they were not used to save American lives, then Obama resignation is assured.
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Old 05-12-2013, 16:40   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonGlock26 View Post
I have heard no mention of naval assets at all. I'm waiting for that to come out.

I'd also like to know where did the drone come from? Why wasn't to armed? Were armed drones available and ordered to stand down too? If there were armed drones available and they were not used to save American lives, then Obama resignation is assured.
Armed drones out of where? Best case scenario, our agreement with Libya was such that we are allowed to fly armed drones out of bases there. Worst case-- they don't let our drones into their airspace. Funny thing that concept of sovereign nations and law. They get chces too. in any event, drones fly at half the speed of smell (though in the movies the Predator does fly with after burners on). Unless that thing was directly overhead at the time of the incident, it's pointless to discuss it because it would never arrive on station in time.

Then of course you have the issue of, "What's the target?" Drones are great but the cameras aren't that good and if there is a mass of people on the ground, you're SOL.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:08   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barcroft View Post
Did we not have carriers in the Med?
Seems that they would have been a lot closer, if they were indeed there.

It is hard to dig up definitive info on this but best I can tell there was no carrier strike group anywhere near the Med.

http://beldar.blogs.com/beldarblog/2...an-shores.html

I think there may have been one or two destroyers operating in the med but aside from lobbing some missiles into the area I don't know what they could have done.

Gates and Boykin can certainly have their opinions but neither knew the military capabilities which could have been effectively deployed during the attack.

To me the biggest scandals were
- the incredible lack of preparation and security in dealing with potential attacks on our assets in Libya,
- the question of what the CIA was doing in Benghazi in the first place that made it so important for the Ambassador to go into that dangerous area on that day with inadequate security,
- the outright lies and cover ups in the aftermath from the White House and State Department.

Whether a more forceful response during the attacks was or was not possible, given the lack of preparation and foresight, is a question I would like explored more fully but I cannot make a judgment on whether an effective military intervention was or was not feasible.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:49   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flintlocker View Post
One member of the quick reaction force died at the CIA compound.

Try not failing so hard next time you start speaking out of your arse.

You want to ante up a source for this tidbit?
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:03   #12
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Originally Posted by Spymaster View Post
You want to ante up a source for this tidbit?
I guess it's no surprise that this is news to the wingnuts out there. Right wing news and blogs have no interest in the truth... they make their money by winding you up and sending you off on emotional tirades.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:28   #13
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Originally Posted by Flintlocker View Post
One member of the quick reaction force died at the CIA compound.

Try not failing so hard next time you start speaking out of your arse.
Every word you type just explains more and more how Obama got elected in the first place.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:40   #14
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Every word you type just explains more and more how Obama got elected in the first place.

What's that sound we hear on this thread every time Lintlicker writes a reply?
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:08   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonGlock26 View Post
Addressing the article:

Lie, the ready force was ordered to stand down.



We attacked Libya with air power in 2011 and flew planes in and out of Libya as a matter of routine.


Ok, we don't send in any air support because why?


Yeah, that's what rapid response teams do.

You don't always have time to plan raid, when you are responding to a surprise enemy attack. This hack is simply trying to protect the administration.

FEST, pulled from the state.gov archives (2000-2009)
Quote:
Political IssuesForeign Emergency Support Team (FEST)

The Foreign Emergency Support Team is the United States Government's only interagency, on-call, short-notice team poised to respond to terrorist incidents worldwide. Led and trained by the Operations Directorate of the Office of the Coordinator for Counterterrorism, it assists U.S. missions and host governments in responding quickly and effectively to terrorist attacks. The FEST, which has deployed to over 20 countries since its inception in 1986, leaves for an incident site within four hours of notification, providing the fastest assistance possible.
The FEST provides round-the-clock advice and assistance to Ambassadors and foreign governments facing crisis. The Team is comprised of seasoned experts from the Department of State, FBI, Department of Defense, Department of Energy, and the Intelligence Community. Once on the scene, FEST members help Ambassadors assess the emergency, advise on how best to respond, and assist in managing consequent operations. FEST provides:
  • Seasoned crisis management expertise
  • Time-sensitive information and intelligence
  • Planning for contingency operations
  • Hostage negotiating expertise
  • Reach-back to Washington agencies
Political IssuesFEST Assists in the Aftermath of East Africa Bombings
Two Foreign Emergency Support Teams were deployed to Kenya and Tanzania immediately following the August 1998 al-Qaeda terrorist bombings of US Embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam. The FESTs helped assess both emergencies and aided US Ambassadors as they managed the aftermath of the attacks, which killed some 300 (including 12 Americans) and injured more than 5000.
Political IssuesFEST Responds to USS Cole Bombing
A Foreign Emergency Support Team was deployed to Aden, Yemen following a terrorist attack against the USS Cole, which killed 17 American sailors in October 2000. The FEST advised the US ambassador and helped her direct America's response to the attack. FEST's secure mobile communications capability was especially valuable, since the Port of Aden is some 200 miles from the American Embassy in Sanaa.

Smaller, "tailored" FESTs have responded to abductions of Americans in Ecuador and the Philippines. "Contingency" FESTs were deployed to ensure safety at the Olympic Games in Athens, Greece (Summer 2004) and Turin, Italy (Winter 2006), and in Lagos, Nigeria during a hostage-taking crisis.
In addition to the above activities, the FEST routinely provides veteran diplomatic and interagency experts to national counterterrorism exercises, such as TOPOFF.
These are not professional trigger pullers. The FEST team is more like a glorified door to door salesman. They come in after the incident and tell you what America can or can not do to support in the aftermath.

Activating and sending this type of team into an active fight with the hopes that something would actually be accomplished would have been like activating Boy Scout Troop 614 and sending them in to conduct the rescue. Would you end up with a few more people on the ground when you aren't sure whats going on? Yes. Would you see the names of the people you sent in the newspaper the following day because they died shortly after they arrived on the scene? Yes.
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Last edited by The Maggy; 05-15-2013 at 12:20..
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:42   #16
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Quote:
By SHARYL ATTKISSON / CBS NEWS/ November 1, 2012, 6:02 PM

Sources: Key task force not convened during Benghazi consulate attack

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...sulate-attack/
Game, set, match.

BTW-Attkisson has been harassed by CBS News for being too aggressive at getting to the truth of what happened in Benghazi and the aftermath.
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Last edited by DonGlock26; 05-12-2013 at 11:44..
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:48   #17
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Originally Posted by DonGlock26 View Post
Game, set, match.

BTW-Attkisson has been harassed by CBS News for being too aggressive at getting to the truth of what happened in Benghazi and the aftermath.

That's because Attkissons boss "David," is Obama speechwriter "Ben Rhodes" brother, and the president of CBS!

Last edited by Spymaster; 05-12-2013 at 11:50..
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:55   #18
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That's because Attkissons boss "David," is Obama speechwriter "Ben Rhodes" brother, and the president of CBS!
Incest between the media and the political elite is rampant in Washington.
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Last edited by DonGlock26; 05-12-2013 at 11:56..
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:22   #19
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Got to love when Bush-haters defend Glorious Leader with Bushies and Bush equivocation.
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Last edited by evlbruce; 05-12-2013 at 13:22..
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:23   #20
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I don't believe fl is lying. I believe has has been so indoctrinated in the cult of HWSNBN, that s/he can no longer differentiate between truth and propaganda.

Barring that, s/he is duplicitous in perpetuating the coverup of the murder of our citizens. Maybe s/he agrees with the, they were going to die one day anyway, what's the big deal? Theory that the extreme liberals (democrats) seem to favor.
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