GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-12-2013, 19:05   #1
RutgersGrad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 172
Send a message via AIM to RutgersGrad
1969 870 Wingmaster vs New 870P

I've been seriously considering getting a Remington 870P. Synthetic stock, 7 round capacity, etc. But my Dad gave me his old 44 year old Wingmaster 870. Has a 28 and 20 inch barrel and in excellent condition.. As much as I would love a nice 870P right now, if I could find a reason to save my money and just use the Wingmaster... It'll just be for target practice and maybe HD. Might this old rifle be good enough of a reason to save me some money on buying a new shotgun?
RutgersGrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 19:06   #2
K.Kiser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Shreveport, La.
Posts: 1,452
A new 870 will be a downgrade...
K.Kiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 19:12   #3
Jeremy_K
Senior Member
 
Jeremy_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 1,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Kiser View Post
A new 870 will be a downgrade...
Absolutely! I'd love to have my Dad's 870 Wingmaster (50's era). Compared to my 870 Express and any other 870 I've handled in the store, the old one wins hands down. Plus it looks cooler
Jeremy_K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2013, 02:31   #4
Southpaw69
Senior Member
 
Southpaw69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California
Posts: 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Kiser View Post
A new 870 will be a downgrade...
This was my thought as well. I'd take the '69 and keep it original and then get a new one if need be. That's just my opinion.
Southpaw69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2013, 16:58   #5
aippi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,565
You never stated what you are going to use the weapon for and rather strange all these knowledable people failed to ask before giving their educated comments.

If you intend to use it for defense then you have a weapon that is most likely pre- flex tab and I don't recomend it for a defense weapon unless you upgrade it. If it does not have the flex tab conversion this requires three different parts which are 1. New breech bolt 2. New slide 3. New carrier. The Parts run $141. Or you can try to get the Flex Tab Convesion kit from Brownells for $100.00. Good Luck with that. If it has the flex tab conversion already you are as good to go with it as any 870 in a fight.

If it is just for hunting the you are fine.
__________________
J.D. McGuire, Owner
AI&P Tactical, LLC
www.aiptactical.com
Remington LE Armorer
Mossberg LE Armorer
aippi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2013, 21:02   #6
cyphertext
Senior Member
 
cyphertext's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by aippi View Post
You never stated what you are going to use the weapon for and rather strange all these knowledable people failed to ask before giving their educated comments.

If you intend to use it for defense then you have a weapon that is most likely pre- flex tab and I don't recomend it for a defense weapon unless you upgrade it. If it does not have the flex tab conversion this requires three different parts which are 1. New breech bolt 2. New slide 3. New carrier. The Parts run $141. Or you can try to get the Flex Tab Convesion kit from Brownells for $100.00. Good Luck with that. If it has the flex tab conversion already you are as good to go with it as any 870 in a fight.

If it is just for hunting the you are fine.
He stated "target practice and maybe HD" in the first post.

JD, I typically would not disagree with you, but I do on this one. I have never experienced the jam that the flex tab addresses in my years of running an 870. If you load it properly, and "run it like you've got a pair", you won't experience this jam either. It's nice to have, but it certainly won't stop me from using my '59 model for self defense. What did LE do for the 30 some odd years before the flexitab was invented?
cyphertext is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 16:07   #7
aippi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,565
Nor have I, however, on the range I have had to clear plenty of them while re-qualifingt officers. I am assuming and maybe wrongly so that when people ask basic questions on a gun forum they are not as proficient as others and basic answers and advice are called for. However in this case the advice is the same for anyone who is going to use an 870 for defense.

I have never discharged a shotgun in the line of duty and had I, I am not sure how it would have went being that stress and fear have entered the equation. So with that in mind I would recomend the Flex tab convesion for any 870 that could be used in a defense situation. Including mine. Jam a shell between the carrier and the breech bolt during a fight and you are now holding an 8 pound baton.

I do not know a single knowledgable person who would not prepare their fighting weapons to be a Murphy proof as possible.

What LEO's did for all those years is end up in fights with jamed weapons. That is why the Flex Tab Conversion kit was LE restricted for all those years and at a greatly reduced cost price to LEO upon verification it was a duty weapon or for Agencies. Remington felt obligated to correct this flaw in their LE weapons. While at the factory I specificlly ask why the Flex tab conversion kit was $78 and LE restricted yet a civlian could by the same three parts for $140. The answer was that the sporting models were for hunting and if a shooter had a jam he could stop and clear it without his life being in danger. But the police models were built for use against human threats that were shooting back and there was not time to stop and break a weapon down to clear it. I replied that the lives of all those people who use their older 870's for home defense and even Bear Defense were just as important as anyone elses and tens of thousand still put confidence older 870's to protect them and their loved ones.

I am still unclear if the LE restriction has been lifted for the Conversion kit. I think it depends on which cubical clown answers the phone when you call to order.
__________________
J.D. McGuire, Owner
AI&P Tactical, LLC
www.aiptactical.com
Remington LE Armorer
Mossberg LE Armorer

Last edited by aippi; 05-17-2013 at 16:18..
aippi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2013, 18:13   #8
AKJD
Member
 
AKJD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Fairbanks Alaska
Posts: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by aippi View Post
You never stated what you are going to use the weapon for and rather strange all these knowledable people failed to ask before giving their educated comments.

If you intend to use it for defense then you have a weapon that is most likely pre- flex tab and I don't recomend it for a defense weapon unless you upgrade it. If it does not have the flex tab conversion this requires three different parts which are 1. New breech bolt 2. New slide 3. New carrier. The Parts run $141. Or you can try to get the Flex Tab Convesion kit from Brownells for $100.00. Good Luck with that. If it has the flex tab conversion already you are as good to go with it as any 870 in a fight.

If it is just for hunting the you are fine.

So the self proclaimed expert in all things 870 calls out everyone else that answered and basically says they are an idiot when he himself didn't even read the original post. Its right there what the OP's intended use was.

OP: It'll just be for target practice and maybe HD.

READING IS FUNDAMENTAL.

Amazing.
AKJD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 06:21   #9
bsg1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,166
.....

Last edited by bsg1; 05-19-2013 at 06:33..
bsg1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 04:49   #10
bsg1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,166
.....

Last edited by bsg1; 05-19-2013 at 04:51..
bsg1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2013, 23:05   #11
sps
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 30
jd-do you know what the remington parts numbers are for those 3 items and/or do you stock them??

thank you very much
steve
sps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2013, 19:12   #12
schapman43
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Kiser View Post
A new 870 will be a downgrade...
I would have to agree. There is nothing better than those old Wingmasters.
__________________
Self Sufficient Living
http://www.theprepared.com
"KEEP YOUR BOOGER HOOK OFF THE BANG SWITCH!" ~~Kingfish
schapman43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 19:07   #13
vafish
Senior Member
 
vafish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Commonwealth of Virginia
Posts: 23,741
I'd rather have the 44 year old Wingmaster with the 20" barrel than a brand new 870P.
__________________
"If your plan is for one year, plant rice.
If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
If your plan is for one hundred years,
educate children." -- Confucius
vafish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2013, 12:08   #14
glock2740
Gun lover.
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NW Ark.
Posts: 18,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Kiser View Post
A new 870 will be a downgrade...
Quote:
Originally Posted by vafish View Post
I'd rather have the 44 year old Wingmaster with the 20" barrel than a brand new 870P.
OP, these are your answers right here.
glock2740 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 19:22   #15
RutgersGrad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 172
Send a message via AIM to RutgersGrad
Even an 870 Police would be a downgrade? Could you give me an example? Were they just made better back then?
RutgersGrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 19:35   #16
mr00jimbo
Senior Member
 
mr00jimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 4,247
New 870 Police Magnums are made very well. Also, they can shoot 3" slugs if you want to do that. Old Wingmasters were also made well.
__________________
"Learning to shoot with a Glock is like learning to drive with a car with a smashed windshield and two flat tires."
-Yo
mr00jimbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 19:39   #17
paulbow
Senior Member
 
paulbow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Posts: 681
The newer 870s have more non metal parts. Other than that, an older wingmaster is basically a police model configured for hunting.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
paulbow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 20:47   #18
cyphertext
Senior Member
 
cyphertext's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,487
Save yourself some money, buy a short barrel for your Dad's Wingmaster and be happy. The old Wingmaster is well built and there is no need to buy a new one, unless you just want two.

Just noticed that you already have a 20" barrel to go with it, so you are set.

Last edited by cyphertext; 05-12-2013 at 20:48..
cyphertext is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 20:51   #19
RutgersGrad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 172
Send a message via AIM to RutgersGrad
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyphertext View Post
Save yourself some money, buy a short barrel for your Dad's Wingmaster and be happy. The old Wingmaster is well built and there is no need to buy a new one, unless you just want two.

Just noticed that you already have a 20" barrel to go with it, so you are set.
Thanks. While it's tempting to buy an 870P anyway for the hell of it, sounds like I can spend that money better elsewhere. Could I get an 18 inch barrel for that Wingmaster? Not that it would be that much shorter than the 20 inch I have...
RutgersGrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2013, 19:16   #20
schapman43
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulbow View Post
The newer 870s have more non metal parts. Other than that, an older wingmaster is basically a police model configured for hunting.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Remember we're talking about the Police model here. Those "plastic" parts don't exist on the Police models.
__________________
Self Sufficient Living
http://www.theprepared.com
"KEEP YOUR BOOGER HOOK OFF THE BANG SWITCH!" ~~Kingfish
schapman43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 21:14   #21
MrMurphy
Head Sheepdog
 
MrMurphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Buried in the X-files
Posts: 31,635
The 870P is made on a different assembly line than the Express guns. Basically it's the 'original' 870 or as close as you'll find, more metal parts and more QC taken.

The old school Wingmaster will certainly 'do' but having a new one means you're less worried about jacking it up in use.
__________________
"And Shepherds we shall be. For thee, my Lord for thee. Power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine Patris, et fili, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen."
MrMurphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 21:27   #22
r3dot
Senior Member
 
r3dot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Izzerwat
Posts: 2,422
I can't believe you'd consider a newer 870 over a classic wingmaster.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
r3dot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 21:35   #23
RutgersGrad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 172
Send a message via AIM to RutgersGrad
And this is coming from a guy who normally just collects WW2 rifles so go figure lol
RutgersGrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 00:26   #24
MrMurphy
Head Sheepdog
 
MrMurphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Buried in the X-files
Posts: 31,635
Nothing saying you can't have both.

I know if I had ended up using my dad's shotgun in a defensive shooting and it disappeared into evidence for 10 years and came back a rusted mess (it's happened.....) I'd be pretty ticked.

An 870P bought for the purpose? I'd still be annoyed, but it wouldn't be my dad's gun.
__________________
"And Shepherds we shall be. For thee, my Lord for thee. Power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine Patris, et fili, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen."
MrMurphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 01:31   #25
colin1230
Senior Member
 
colin1230's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: KC
Posts: 676
Did you mention to your father that you wanted an 870 so he gave you his? If so, don't buy another. You'll piss him off!
__________________
G17, G19, G21, G26 and G34.
NRA Life Member
AF&AM Life Member
colin1230 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 17:19.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,195
390 Members
805 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42