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Old 11-08-2008, 20:03   #26
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Old 11-08-2008, 20:53   #27
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Old 11-08-2008, 21:11   #28
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I am reminded of the old saw, "Be careful of what you wish, you might get it." All those Democrats who have longed for a Democrat in the White House now have one. God watch over us !

Our country has weathered crisis before and I trust that we will weather this one also. Yes, change is a coming but we must stand by our Constitution and take an active part in protecting it.

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Old 11-08-2008, 22:57   #29
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I cannot trust Obama with change. I get better change from McDonalds. 17z
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Old 11-08-2008, 23:26   #30
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Last time we had a DEM in office our country had a surplus of money.
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Old 11-09-2008, 09:54   #31
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Last time we had a DEM in office our country had a surplus of money.
The last time someone raised taxes on business during a recession, we had a depression.
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Old 11-09-2008, 10:12   #32
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Last time we had a DEM in office our country had a surplus of money.
Because Clinton rode the wave that Regan put into place. Cut corporate taxes, corporations now have more money to reinvest. That creates jobs and sparks the economy.
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Old 11-09-2008, 10:27   #33
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I remember when Ragan went into office and stopped domestic oil and the oil businesses all went bankrupt. Helped big business and all the small companies had to close their doors. Unemployment was close to an all time high.

The past 8 yrs went from a surplus to a great big deficient and unemployment is once again at a all time high.

My other post was a WOW moment. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. I'm sorry if I did......
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Old 11-09-2008, 10:34   #34
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Of course the left has never said anything vile about our current Prez.
Men, a few responses....

Yes, the left has stated a number of times that GWB has done wrong things, ignored reports in regards to his foreign policy decision making, twisted intel to get authorization from Congress for wars, etc.. Various bi-partisan investigatory committees have proven this. However, the difference is this. GWB has had 8 years AS President. Obama hasnt even had a day in office yet. I think and he will be under the same scrutiny as GWB was under. Obama needs to be watched closely and held accountable for the things he does and says he will do. When he doesnt come through, if in fact he doesnt, he needs to be called on it and exposed by Americans that hold him accountable - just as GWB was.

TO the guy who mentioned Mao in China - to relate an American President to Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pot, etc, is just ****ing wrong. Get off the right wing cool-aid. If you dont like him, fine, but to equate him to murderers is ****ing disgusting.

I am hopeful for Obama and his admin. We must keep a close eye on him and hold he and his admin accountable for the things they do. If he hasnt done what he has stated or made substantial efforts in those directions, then we shouldnt re-elect him in 2012.

Now - however, it is time to rally behind the American President to be and support him, regardless of feelings pro or con for this man. He IS our President to be and if we become one people and support him, while holding him accountable, I think we will see positive things in this nation.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:12   #35
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Men, a few responses....

Yes, the left has stated a number of times that GWB has done wrong things, ignored reports in regards to his foreign policy decision making, twisted intel to get authorization from Congress for wars, etc.. Various bi-partisan investigatory committees have proven this. However, the difference is this. GWB has had 8 years AS President. Obama hasnt even had a day in office yet. I think and he will be under the same scrutiny as GWB was under. Obama needs to be watched closely and held accountable for the things he does and says he will do. When he doesnt come through, if in fact he doesnt, he needs to be called on it and exposed by Americans that hold him accountable - just as GWB was.

TO the guy who mentioned Mao in China - to relate an American President to Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pot, etc, is just ****ing wrong. Get off the right wing cool-aid. If you dont like him, fine, but to equate him to murderers is ****ing disgusting.

I am hopeful for Obama and his admin. We must keep a close eye on him and hold he and his admin accountable for the things they do. If he hasnt done what he has stated or made substantial efforts in those directions, then we shouldnt re-elect him in 2012.

Now - however, it is time to rally behind the American President to be and support him, regardless of feelings pro or con for this man. He IS our President to be and if we become one people and support him, while holding him accountable, I think we will see positive things in this nation.
A big part of the reason he is under so much criticism already is because of his tactics in getting elected. He has already proven that he will lie and deliberately mislead the American people now, so why should we expect less of him as President? He got a free pass from the mainstream media throughout his campaign. We will give him a fair shot as we have no choice, but I think he has well-earned some of the criticism he has received from the people that aren't drinking the other Kool-Aid...

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Old 11-09-2008, 13:03   #36
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Men, a few responses....

Yes, the left has stated a number of times that GWB has done wrong things, ignored reports in regards to his foreign policy decision making, twisted intel to get authorization from Congress for wars, etc.. Various bi-partisan investigatory committees have proven this. However, the difference is this. GWB has had 8 years AS President. Obama hasnt even had a day in office yet. I think and he will be under the same scrutiny as GWB was under. Obama needs to be watched closely and held accountable for the things he does and says he will do. When he doesnt come through, if in fact he doesnt, he needs to be called on it and exposed by Americans that hold him accountable - just as GWB was.

TO the guy who mentioned Mao in China - to relate an American President to Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pot, etc, is just ****ing wrong. Get off the right wing cool-aid. If you dont like him, fine, but to equate him to murderers is ****ing disgusting.

I am hopeful for Obama and his admin. We must keep a close eye on him and hold he and his admin accountable for the things they do. If he hasnt done what he has stated or made substantial efforts in those directions, then we shouldnt re-elect him in 2012.

Now - however, it is time to rally behind the American President to be and support him, regardless of feelings pro or con for this man. He IS our President to be and if we become one people and support him, while holding him accountable, I think we will see positive things in this nation.
Mesh, that is a good honest post from you. I will make a couple of points.

1. Many of us (who voted for GWB) are not thrilled with his presidency. He spent like a drunken sailor, going to war with Iraq in the way we did was very questionable, he let us gun owners down by saying he would sign another AWB & supporting the DC gun ban and while I liked many of his proposals he ran on in 2004, he signed into law virtually non of them. (privatization of social security, flat tax or at least fixing the tax code, and charter schools for the broken public school beaucracy).

2. Obama has been scrutinized a lot thus far because he has been far from honest about many issues (his positions on gun control for instance), including all his shady relationships with reverend Wright, Bill Ayers, Tony Rezko.

I hope Obama does govern from the center like he has implied in statements since winning the elections. He has spoken like a president, but his actions are telling a different story. Rahm Emanuel is as partisan as they come, and this is who Obama picked to be the second most powerful man in Washington? We all know the old saying, "Actions speak louder than words".

Another thing to realize about Obama, I believe he is full of "good intentions" (at least in his mind), but the results of his policy may very well be devastating. Congress has already stated they wish to cut military spending by 25%, Obama has stated he wants to "stop all future weapons programs", and he has also stated his desire to significantly decrease our nuclear weapons programs unilaterally. Do you not think this will inspire our enemies see how far they can push the U.S. around? I garantee this is what is going to happen. Ahmadinejad sent Obama a letter congratulating him, first time this has happened since the revolution in Iran.

I vote on 3 broad issues: Economy/Taxes, National Defense & Freedom/Liberty.

Here is my breakdown of Obama V. McCain:

Economy: McCain wins because of his energy policy (this DIRECTLY effects the economy), Obama has said he will "bankrupt" the coal industry, he is not in favor of opening up our continental shelves for drilling or drilling in Anwar, nor does he like nuclear power either. Even the messiah cannot legislate an energy miracle, you can't fix our energy issue with wind power alone. Technological breakthroughs come via the free market much more efficiently and quickly than they do from government (thats a big reason why the USA wont the cold war and not the USSR).

For example, research the Chevy Volt, the US is acutally ahead of the world in alternative energy in large part thanks to GM developing the ability to mass produce the lithium ion battery car (of course, the messiah will take credit for this, even though I've been talking about the Chevy Volt for a year and a half now as a reason to invest in GM now, but hey, what do I know). With this new technology, the increased demand for electricity will increase. If we play our cards right with nuclear power, we could cheaply heat every home in the country and power our vehicles and be completely energy independant (national security, see how these issues intertwine).

The messiah will not build the nuclear power plants we need, nor will he authorize or lobby congress to allow for more domestic drilling. Notice I didn't even need to mention taxes in my economy argument? I could teach a course on why the messiah's tax plan will ruin the economy, but lets keep the issues simple for now.

National Security: McCain wins, because of what I've previously said about the messiah unilaterally disarming our nuclear arsenal, cutting all future weapons programs and allowing the democratically controlled congress to cut military funding by 25%. Notice how Ahmadinejad congratulated Obama on his win? We will now be tested by our enemies who see weakness in our nation. Ahmadinejad believes it is his duty to awaken the 12th Imam (the Mahdi) and to do this, he believes he must cause "great chaos" (ie, "wipe Israel out in 1 storm). What do you think that will lead to? Notice how Russia started saber rattling the day after the election and how Putin is attempting to get the Russian constitution changed so he can be president again? Its because our enemies see weakness. I am a firm believer in peace through strength, Obama believes in peace through weakness.

Freedom/Liberty: Obama has used Chicago political tactics to silence and defame his critics thus far, so we know he doesn't believe in freedom of speech (when you disagree with him). The dems are already talking about implimenting the "Fairness Doctrine" (ie, restriction on 1A, gotta love how libs always mislabel bills they propose because they know most people won't read them) and implimenting an AWB at the very least (restriction on 2A). Couple that with the increased spending/taxes we are sure to see, Obama has one hell of a plan to "change" (take) freedoms away from the American people.

I could keep going, but I'll stop here. I'm sure you had your reasons for voting for Obama (maybe you could explain), but the majority of Obama supporters did not vote for Obama on policy/philosophy/positions. My aunt who is 56 voted for the first time in her life (she hasn't worked in decades, btw) for Obama, I asked her why and she could not explain, other than she thinks Obama is gonna give her more money (but I'm sure she didn't want to say that).

But of course, Obama is our President-Elect, we all have to hope for the best. I'm skeptically supporting his administration, but my gut tells me it won't be long before we see the country circling the toilet. I wish the dems woulda ran Jim Webb, I probably would have voted for him over McCain, and I'm sure Webb would won, considering it was the dems year, but running a socialist v. a blue dog is very telling of the far left shift the democratic party has taken since the days of JFK. Off my soap box!!!


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Old 11-09-2008, 14:49   #37
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Old 11-10-2008, 01:30   #38
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Men, a few responses....

Yes, the left has stated a number of times that GWB has done wrong things, ignored reports in regards to his foreign policy decision making, twisted intel to get authorization from Congress for wars, etc.. Various bi-partisan investigatory committees have proven this. However, the difference is this. GWB has had 8 years AS President. Obama hasnt even had a day in office yet. I think and he will be under the same scrutiny as GWB was under. Obama needs to be watched closely and held accountable for the things he does and says he will do. When he doesnt come through, if in fact he doesnt, he needs to be called on it and exposed by Americans that hold him accountable - just as GWB was.

TO the guy who mentioned Mao in China - to relate an American President to Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pot, etc, is just ****ing wrong. Get off the right wing cool-aid. If you dont like him, fine, but to equate him to murderers is ****ing disgusting.

I am hopeful for Obama and his admin. We must keep a close eye on him and hold he and his admin accountable for the things they do. If he hasnt done what he has stated or made substantial efforts in those directions, then we shouldnt re-elect him in 2012.

Now - however, it is time to rally behind the American President to be and support him, regardless of feelings pro or con for this man. He IS our President to be and if we become one people and support him, while holding him accountable, I think we will see positive things in this nation.
You are delusional.
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:51   #39
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Just remember, Obama sold his soul to the hard left(amongst others). We'll see how he governs when it's time to "pay the piper."




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Old 11-10-2008, 15:33   #40
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I can support part of the message of this video! Check out the left-hand corner @ 8:43!
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Old 11-10-2008, 15:40   #41
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This country rewards effort.
No. This country rewards the upper class, silver-spoon fed children of the elite. This country in no way rewards effort, either rep or dem.
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Old 11-10-2008, 15:45   #42
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Last time we had a DEM in office our country had a surplus of money.
And Whitewater, and infidelity in the white house, and many people wrongly assassinated(oh wait, non proved conspiricy theory, I will leave that one out)

I guess it just depends on where your morals are on your priority list. I know where mine are.
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Old 11-10-2008, 15:48   #43
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amazes me that BO has already stated that the door is still open to chages in his proposed tax cut plans. Flip-flopping already.
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Old 11-10-2008, 15:51   #44
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Men, a few responses....


Now - however, it is time to rally behind the American President to be and support him, regardless of feelings pro or con for this man. He IS our President to be and if we become one people and support him, while holding him accountable, I think we will see positive things in this nation.
You left wingers amaze me. you bash on Bush, call all sorts of names, critisize decisions, and whatever else you can think of but now you have the audacity to say rally behind the new Dem prez cause he will make a difference. Correct me if I am wrong but behind the all might new prez there is still the DEM led House and Congress that has been screwing things up for the last 4 years. Explain where the change will come? except from our middle class pockets.
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Old 11-10-2008, 15:59   #45
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To many people said "I am voting for Obama. Not because I like him but because I don't like Bush" Amazing. He wasn't even running. 2 people in my own family stated that. I guess I just don't understand.
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Old 11-10-2008, 16:21   #46
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Blaa, Blaa, Blaaa

Like I said, I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers...

Left and right hasn't done that good of a job in.... I can't remember when! Both sides have their secrets.

I still would not live anywhere else................
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Old 11-10-2008, 16:30   #47
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One of the worst thing we have going on in America right now is the divisiveness as displayed in this thread and lack of understanding about how there can be another view besides your own. Obama did not get elected because he spouted off "Change" a bunch. To be honest, McCain lost the election because he had a poorly delivered message, lost his way during his campaign and failed to connect with the American people. He had a liar like "Joe the Plumber" as a spokesman. I mean come on, that’s just not going to work. Gun control is not the only issue in America and people failure to understand the other side of an argument just shows them to be narrow minded. Narrow minded people are not going to be able to effectively defend their own rights because they can not debate in an effective manner. We need to learn that not everyone believes like us and that does not make them stupid. Misinformed, perhaps, but not stupid. In many ways, we as gun owners are our own worst enemies because we cannot put ourselves in others shoes long enough to understand them so that we can effectively defend ourselves with out sounding angry or stupid ourselves.
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Old 11-10-2008, 16:35   #48
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One of the worst thing we have going on in America right now is the divisiveness as displayed in this thread and lack of understanding about how there can be another view besides your own. Obama did not get elected because he spouted off "Change" a bunch. To be honest, McCain lost the election because he had a poorly delivered message, lost his way during his campaign and failed to connect with the American people. He had a liar like "Joe the Plumber" as a spokesman. I mean come on, that’s just not going to work. Gun control is not the only issue in America and people failure to understand the other side of an argument just shows them to be narrow minded. Narrow minded people are not going to be able to effectively defend their own rights because they can not debate in an effective manner. We need to learn that not everyone believes like us and that does not make them stupid. Misinformed, perhaps, but not stupid. In many ways, we as gun owners are our own worst enemies because we cannot put ourselves in others shoes long enough to understand them so that we can effectively defend ourselves with out sounding angry or stupid ourselves.

This is likely the smartest post I have read on GT since the election.

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Old 11-10-2008, 20:34   #49
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[QUOTE=spdski;11627417] This is likely the smartest post I have read on GT since the election.

If so, you really need to get around a bit more in GT...

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Old 11-11-2008, 16:05   #50
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The only thing I can think of at this moment, besides trying to overcome the urge to throw everything I pick up is the disdain that I hold for Hussein Obama and all of the morons that voted for him. If you even begin to think that he is what this country needs, and I'm not just talking about 2nd Ammendment Rights, then you are as big an idiot as he is. I don't like him, or anything he stands for and I could really give a rat's ass what happens to him. I would, however, ask that you show those of us who still love this country to wear a black armband when in public so I will know , in the event the SHTF, not to raise my weapon to defend your sorry asses.. Want to know how I really feel about that piece of garbage?
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