GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-23-2008, 17:58   #121
purpledragonlily
Senior Member
 
purpledragonlily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by meshmdz View Post
Well, since the Democratic vote was usually DIFFERENT from the Republican way, it IS total change from the way things have been.

McCain voted with Bush. the American people want CHANGE from the way things have been, so they OVERWHELMINGLY voted for Obama and a NEW direction. I cant believe I even had to type this out for you... Figured your intellectual level was high enough to understand that... apparently not..
52% of the people voted for Obama- 48% DID NOT, that is not overwhelming, that is just enough. The Dem congress has been in control for 2 years with the worst approval rating in history- way lower than Bush. So no, voting Dem is no "change", as Obama has only been in the Senate for a short time, so has been with the Dems while they have been the majority. Is your intellectual level able to follow that? Doubt it since you voted for him.
__________________
James Madison: "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms." (Federalist Paper #46)
purpledragonlily is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2008, 19:42   #122
bennwj
Silver Membership
CSM
 
bennwj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fort Drum
Posts: 4,311
Send a message via MSN to bennwj Send a message via Yahoo to bennwj Send a message via Skype™ to bennwj
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpledragonlily View Post
52% of the people voted for Obama- 48% DID NOT, that is not overwhelming, that is just enough. The Dem congress has been in control for 2 years with the worst approval rating in history- way lower than Bush. So no, voting Dem is no "change", as Obama has only been in the Senate for a short time, so has been with the Dems while they have been the majority. Is your intellectual level able to follow that? Doubt it since you voted for him.
I think it was funny in 200 and 2004 when President Bush won both of those elections with 51% of the vote the media said the country was "divided". Obama wins with 52% this year and the country is "united".

Although congress had a horrible approval rating, ask the average Joe what he thought about his Senator or representative. His reply would likely be, "My guy is great...the other 534 are screwed up"
__________________
‎"We're moving in the right direction."

--attributed to two people: Barack Obama and George Armstrong Custer.
bennwj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2008, 19:48   #123
meshmdz
OBAMA 2012
 
meshmdz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Fort Knox, KY
Posts: 1,809
Blog Entries: 1
Send a message via AIM to meshmdz Send a message via Yahoo to meshmdz Send a message via Skype™ to meshmdz
Look at the number of people who turned out to vote. Far more voted for Obama than did bush or kerry.

The Dems cant get **** done because Bush and his administration hasnt worked with them, by blocking legislation they have put up.
meshmdz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2008, 19:51   #124
bennwj
Silver Membership
CSM
 
bennwj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fort Drum
Posts: 4,311
Send a message via MSN to bennwj Send a message via Yahoo to bennwj Send a message via Skype™ to bennwj
Quote:
Originally Posted by meshmdz View Post
Welfare is abused, yes... However, the system DOES HELP many people. So it does NOT need to be done away with.. Its needs reform, yes, but not total disappearance.
Let me give you a perfect example of how the welfare system is broken and in need of overhaul.

My niece has made every bad decision in life that is possible. Dropped out of school, drugs, sex ...you name it.

She had her first child (no father's name on the birth certificate) about two years ago. She had no job, no means of support other than her mom and was on every welfare program New York state and the federal government had.

When I saw her the baby was about 9 months old. She made the retarded statement that she, "wanted another one'. I told her that before she made taxpayers pay for another one, she might want to get a job and get her life in order. She said it was her "right" to have as many as she wanted.

Shortly after that we found out that she was pregnant again. No father on the birth certificate again.

Taxpayers are paying her to have babies. That is wrong. All payments to her should be cut off NOW.

Now, somebody who has worked and is disabled is a different story. If they have no way to provide for themselves then we must, as a people help out.

The system that we currently have traps people in the system.

My niece gets Section 8 housing and only has to pay $50 per month towards her utilities. Food stamps and a welfare check. She is 19 years old and more than capable of working.

Unfortunately she is not the exception. She is the rule when it comes to current welfare recipients.
__________________
‎"We're moving in the right direction."

--attributed to two people: Barack Obama and George Armstrong Custer.
bennwj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2008, 19:53   #125
bennwj
Silver Membership
CSM
 
bennwj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fort Drum
Posts: 4,311
Send a message via MSN to bennwj Send a message via Yahoo to bennwj Send a message via Skype™ to bennwj
Quote:
Originally Posted by meshmdz View Post
Look at the number of people who turned out to vote. Far more voted for Obama than did bush or kerry.

The Dems cant get **** done because Bush and his administration hasnt worked with them, by blocking legislation they have put up.
But what little legislation they "put up" (proposed is the word you were looking for), has been of the liberal variety and as the President he has not only a right, but a responsibility to support his convictions.

Would you rather have him sign a bill into law against his convictions? It's called character.
__________________
‎"We're moving in the right direction."

--attributed to two people: Barack Obama and George Armstrong Custer.
bennwj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2008, 20:01   #126
meshmdz
OBAMA 2012
 
meshmdz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Fort Knox, KY
Posts: 1,809
Blog Entries: 1
Send a message via AIM to meshmdz Send a message via Yahoo to meshmdz Send a message via Skype™ to meshmdz
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennwj View Post
Let me give you a perfect example of how the welfare system is broken and in need of overhaul.

My niece has made every bad decision in life that is possible. Dropped out of school, drugs, sex ...you name it.

She had her first child (no father's name on the birth certificate) about two years ago. She had no job, no means of support other than her mom and was on every welfare program New York state and the federal government had.

When I saw her the baby was about 9 months old. She made the retarded statement that she, "wanted another one'. I told her that before she made taxpayers pay for another one, she might want to get a job and get her life in order. She said it was her "right" to have as many as she wanted.

Shortly after that we found out that she was pregnant again. No father on the birth certificate again.

Taxpayers are paying her to have babies. That is wrong. All payments to her should be cut off NOW.

Now, somebody who has worked and is disabled is a different story. If they have no way to provide for themselves then we must, as a people help out.

The system that we currently have traps people in the system.

My niece gets Section 8 housing and only has to pay $50 per month towards her utilities. Food stamps and a welfare check. She is 19 years old and more than capable of working.

Unfortunately she is not the exception. She is the rule when it comes to current welfare recipients.
I agree SGM. People like that are mooching off the system. However, I dont think you can say that because certain people do this that you can throw away the entire system.
meshmdz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2008, 20:17   #127
spdski
CLM Number 294
NRA Life Member
 
spdski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,188
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennwj View Post
I think it was funny in 200 and 2004 when President Bush won both of those elections with 51% of the vote the media said the country was "divided". Obama wins with 52% this year and the country is "united".
Just to set the record straight. In 2000, Bush got about 49% of the popular vote. In 2004, he got about 51%. This year Obama got 53.25%

None of these show a united country.

Then again, when Reagan won his first term he only got about 51%...
spdski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2008, 20:19   #128
meshmdz
OBAMA 2012
 
meshmdz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Fort Knox, KY
Posts: 1,809
Blog Entries: 1
Send a message via AIM to meshmdz Send a message via Yahoo to meshmdz Send a message via Skype™ to meshmdz
Quote:
Originally Posted by spdski View Post
Just to set the record straight. In 2000, Bush got about 49% of the popular vote. In 2004, he got about 51%. This year Obama got 53.25%

None of these show a united country.

Then again, when Reagan won his first term he only got about 51%...
I am glad you mentioned this.. I was about to post this about Reagan's win actually.
meshmdz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2008, 22:06   #129
bennwj
Silver Membership
CSM
 
bennwj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fort Drum
Posts: 4,311
Send a message via MSN to bennwj Send a message via Yahoo to bennwj Send a message via Skype™ to bennwj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
One of the worst thing we have going on in America right now is the divisiveness as displayed in this thread and lack of understanding about how there can be another view besides your own. Obama did not get elected because he spouted off "Change" a bunch. To be honest, McCain lost the election because he had a poorly delivered message, lost his way during his campaign and failed to connect with the American people. He had a liar like "Joe the Plumber" as a spokesman. I mean come on, thatís just not going to work. Gun control is not the only issue in America and people failure to understand the other side of an argument just shows them to be narrow minded. Narrow minded people are not going to be able to effectively defend their own rights because they can not debate in an effective manner. We need to learn that not everyone believes like us and that does not make them stupid. Misinformed, perhaps, but not stupid. In many ways, we as gun owners are our own worst enemies because we cannot put ourselves in others shoes long enough to understand them so that we can effectively defend ourselves with out sounding angry or stupid ourselves.
Let me get this straight. McCain lost because he had a "Liar like Joe the plumber".

So, did Obama win because he had a "Terrorist like Bill Ayers"?

I would actually say that the people who voted for Obama are the narrow minded ones. All we heard over and over was "change". No real mention of change except to tax the **** out of people who actually work for a living. This who work for a living mistakenly believed that they would not get the tax increase ........ "they" were going to get a tax break.

What else did Barry say? Oh yes. We are going to end the war in Iraq. That is typical liberal bull****. Snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Unfortunately Obama is our President. I wish him well, because his policies that he implements into law with an extremely liberal congress could cause real harm to our nation.
__________________
‎"We're moving in the right direction."

--attributed to two people: Barack Obama and George Armstrong Custer.
bennwj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 15:39   #130
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,439
Did Ayers campaign for Obama? Get real. McCain sold his soul to the Republican right and then tried to make it work with tactics like "Joe the Plumber" who actually campaigned for him. McCain f-d up. Simple as that. He was not the same McCain as we had a year ago. It was a uphill battle with the War and Bush being so unpopular but if you look at the campaigns from a little distance McCain had more mistakes then Obama. I know thats hard to hear but from the people who actually make up the deciding votes its true (assuming the base is going to vote as the base ussually votes) McCain was afraid to stray to far from the "right" for fear of loosing the "base". Obama was able to grab more of the middle ground with out loosing his base.
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 19:01   #131
bennwj
Silver Membership
CSM
 
bennwj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fort Drum
Posts: 4,311
Send a message via MSN to bennwj Send a message via Yahoo to bennwj Send a message via Skype™ to bennwj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
Did Ayers campaign for Obama? Get real. McCain sold his soul to the Republican right and then tried to make it work with tactics like "Joe the Plumber" who actually campaigned for him. McCain f-d up. Simple as that. He was not the same McCain as we had a year ago. It was a uphill battle with the War and Bush being so unpopular but if you look at the campaigns from a little distance McCain had more mistakes then Obama. I know thats hard to hear but from the people who actually make up the deciding votes its true (assuming the base is going to vote as the base ussually votes) McCain was afraid to stray to far from the "right" for fear of loosing the "base". Obama was able to grab more of the middle ground with out loosing his base.
Dude. Put the kool-aid down and throw the Democrat talking points away. McCain is not a conservative (i.e. on the "Right"). He campaigned as a "maverick" and kept saying how he fought the Republican party during his entire career in the Senate. Conservatives have called him a R.I.N.O. (Republican In Name Only) for years.

He lost because he FAILED to run as a conservative. That was one of McCain's mistakes. He never had the base to begin with so he didn't lose it....he had to try to win it.

Obama did a good job of playing class warfare and making people think that he (and bigger government) is the answer. Government is not the solution to the problem, it IS the problem.

If Barry Obama does the things he said he was going to do on the campaign trail, you will see a conservative in the white house in 4 years.
__________________
‎"We're moving in the right direction."

--attributed to two people: Barack Obama and George Armstrong Custer.
bennwj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 20:44   #132
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,439
Cough, cough,b.s., cough.

Very few undecided saw him as you describe. Sure the "right" does but thats not who he lost his votes too. Sure a lot of the base did not like him but I promise you they still voted for him. What else is they going to do vote for Obama in protest. The biggest problem was not loosing those votes. It was they did not come out and work for him. He had a poor support system as a result.

Edit: As far as Obama and what he did to win, I won't argue. McCain did much the same thing, he just looked far more ackward doing it. Kinda my point. McCain floundered while (for the most part) Obama looked poised. 3 years from now you will be hearing all the Republican pundants saying basically what I am saying now. The party is floundering as far as a clear message. When/if Obama fails then that will give the Republicans something to run on. Just like Bush and his unpopularity gave Obama what he needed to get votes.
__________________
Steve

Last edited by Colorado4Wheel; 12-02-2008 at 20:52..
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 21:19   #133
bennwj
Silver Membership
CSM
 
bennwj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fort Drum
Posts: 4,311
Send a message via MSN to bennwj Send a message via Yahoo to bennwj Send a message via Skype™ to bennwj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
Cough, cough,b.s., cough.

Very few undecided saw him as you describe. Sure the "right" does but thats not who he lost his votes too. Sure a lot of the base did not like him but I promise you they still voted for him. What else is they going to do vote for Obama in protest. The biggest problem was not loosing those votes. It was they did not come out and work for him. He had a poor support system as a result.

Edit: As far as Obama and what he did to win, I won't argue. McCain did much the same thing, he just looked far more ackward doing it. Kinda my point. McCain floundered while (for the most part) Obama looked poised. 3 years from now you will be hearing all the Republican pundants saying basically what I am saying now. The party is floundering as far as a clear message. When/if Obama fails then that will give the Republicans something to run on. Just like Bush and his unpopularity gave Obama what he needed to get votes.
Two things:

1. I agree with you about the republican base not getting behind McCain. You are wrong about Republicans staying home however. It did happen. I know a few people who were so disgusted with McCains lack of conservatism, they thought that four years of a uber-liberal would do the Conservative movement some good. How many stayed home is up to guesswork, but many did.

2. I again agree that the Republican party is searching for a message. All you heard on the news was President Bush's poor approval ratings. You heard little or nothing about congressional approval ratings that were TWICE as low as the Presidents. If Republicans turn back to a conservative message/platform they will win and win big. It works every time it is tried. In this election cycle it seemed that every republican running from office was running away from President Bush's policies. Never mind that the CONGRESS has the power to approve a budget. Never mind that they were in power in the Congress for the last 4 years. The Media and the Democrat party were extremely effective in insulating the public from understanding how money is allocated and spent by the government.

I have a good friend who is liberal. He voted for Obama because he believes in all his socialist crap. I do not have a problem with that. I have a problem with the uneducated voter who makes a decision on emotion and sound bites.

Obama was a far better speaker than McCain. Does that make him right? Do his associations with domestic terrorists NOT matter? Bill Ayers wrote a forward in a book that praised Bobby Kennedy's assassin. Bill Ayers went from being a "guy in the neighborhood" to "a close friend". That doesn't matter?

"Growing the economy from the bottom up" makes sense? How many people on "the bottom" have the ability to create jobs and invest in the economy? How are they going to create wealth? Spending the welfare the government is going to give them (disguised as tax rebates) is NOT going to stimulate the economy.

You and I have argued his tax plan and I refuse to beat that dead horse, but any tax increases on business WILL be passed on to the consumer.

What about direct (without preconditions) negotiations with North Korea, Iran and others? Why give them legitimacy?

His policies are crap and I hope he does not implement them. We will be screwed.
__________________
‎"We're moving in the right direction."

--attributed to two people: Barack Obama and George Armstrong Custer.
bennwj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 22:38   #134
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,439
Wow, we agree.

I did not meet a single person who did not vote because of McCain. I found people driven to the polls because of how much they disliked Obama. Not saying what you said didn't happen. I am sure it did. But it worked both ways. It's going to be interesting. I hope it doesn't suck. I am trying to remain upbeat but it's hard.
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 10:52   #135
Lady Glock
Senior Member
 
Lady Glock's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: GA
Posts: 3,611
Send a message via ICQ to Lady Glock
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennwj View Post
Obama was a far better speaker than McCain.
Yeah, he sure could read that teleprompter!

But when he had to speak off the cuff, he couldn't form a coherent thought without uh, ah, um, I think, um, um, uh!
__________________
This is ok, right? I'm not breaking any rules or making anyone mad at me for this comment, Right?

Trust in God...Everyone else keep your hands where I can see them!
Lady Glock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 14:31   #136
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Glock View Post
Yeah, he sure could read that teleprompter!

But when he had to speak off the cuff, he couldn't form a coherent thought without uh, ah, um, I think, um, um, uh!

To be fair the "town hall format" did not favor either canidate. McCain thought he would make Obama look bad in that format and it was just not the case.
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 16:31   #137
bennwj
Silver Membership
CSM
 
bennwj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fort Drum
Posts: 4,311
Send a message via MSN to bennwj Send a message via Yahoo to bennwj Send a message via Skype™ to bennwj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
To be fair the "town hall format" did not favor either canidate. McCain thought he would make Obama look bad in that format and it was just not the case.
Actually McCain did extremely well in the town hall format. He is not a teleprompter kind of guy. He does pretty well speaking off the cuff. I don't think that Obama ever looked bad, but he did not look as polished when the audience was asking the questions.

Obama NEVER went of his socialist message. If you think about it he had McCain on defense from day one and was able to get his message across better.
__________________
‎"We're moving in the right direction."

--attributed to two people: Barack Obama and George Armstrong Custer.
bennwj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 16:32   #138
bennwj
Silver Membership
CSM
 
bennwj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fort Drum
Posts: 4,311
Send a message via MSN to bennwj Send a message via Yahoo to bennwj Send a message via Skype™ to bennwj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Glock View Post
Yeah, he sure could read that teleprompter!

But when he had to speak off the cuff, he couldn't form a coherent thought without uh, ah, um, I think, um, um, uh!
You got that right.
__________________
‎"We're moving in the right direction."

--attributed to two people: Barack Obama and George Armstrong Custer.
bennwj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 16:50   #139
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,439
McCain did OK. I think style wise it was a draw most the time. McCain had a habit of looking mad and like he was pacing out of frurstration. Obama tended to look detached and not very animated.
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 23:16   #140
meshmdz
OBAMA 2012
 
meshmdz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Fort Knox, KY
Posts: 1,809
Blog Entries: 1
Send a message via AIM to meshmdz Send a message via Yahoo to meshmdz Send a message via Skype™ to meshmdz
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennwj View Post
Dude. Put the kool-aid down and throw the Democrat talking points away. McCain is not a conservative (i.e. on the "Right"). He campaigned as a "maverick" and kept saying how he fought the Republican party during his entire career in the Senate. Conservatives have called him a R.I.N.O. (Republican In Name Only) for years.

He lost because he FAILED to run as a conservative. That was one of McCain's mistakes. He never had the base to begin with so he didn't lose it....he had to try to win it.

Obama did a good job of playing class warfare and making people think that he (and bigger government) is the answer. Government is not the solution to the problem, it IS the problem.

If Barry Obama does the things he said he was going to do on the campaign trail, you will see a conservative in the white house in 4 years.


the SGM is correct here on a few points. McCain is NOT a conservative. Never has been. This is why many Republicans were hesitant to support him as they would have had Huck got the nod. I respect him but he was a lameduck nomination in a race that no Republican could have won IMO. Obama won because he ran the perfect campaign. Where did he mess up? You cant name a single instance. Because he didnt. He ran the best campaign in history, in many ways. Given, he had a pretty good shot from the get-go because so many people are sick and tired of a ****ty economy and the way the Republicans allowed this nation to go down the drain. The Democratic Congress has failed the American people in many ways as well , but many reasons they have failed is because they have failed to get initiatives across the isle because the White House has been repeatedly hesitant to work with anything DEMOCRATIC. If Obama can get things going in the right direction, he will win re-election easily I am betting. Anyone who thinks that he can fix this mess overnight or in 4 years is a total moron.
meshmdz is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

« Change. | test »
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 15:33.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 995
279 Members
716 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31