Problems with ambi mag release on my 21SF [UPDATE]
Hi, I just got my first Glock about a month ago, a G21SF. The gun has been great except that I've had a reoccurring issue with the ambidextrous magazine release. On four separate occasions the magazine failed to lock or latch when inserted and when removed, the square metal tab that catches the mag has come out of it's channel and fallen out of the magwell.
I haven't been able to find a Glock diagram that shows the ambi mag release (including the owners manual) so I'm no positive it's assembled correctly or missing a piece but from looking at it the design of the mag release assembly is not great (IMO).
I don't have a solid repro of the issue, usually it happens after dry firing without the mag. I'll probably take the gun back to the shop on Monday but I would appreciate any feedback from anyone who has some insight.
Thanks!
-Jeff
[UPDATE]
I talked to Glock about the issue yesterday. They just asked me to bring it to an armory to be fixed under warranty. I've already goobered the spring up a bit so I bought a new spring and release to install on my own. If I continue to have issues I'll bring it in.
Also, I asked about previous versions having a polymer mag catch and the Glock rep said they have only shipped ambi releases with a metal catch. Having no experience beyond my own Glock don't take this as personal commentary.
There is a long metal leaf spring with an indention it it. When the buttons are not pushed in, the spring keeps tension on the wider polymer piece that catches the notch in front of the magazine. It looks like the long spring is actually inserted into the front of the grip. From what I have read on glocktalk, it is the polymer that is the weak part in some guns. I have had mine since December, 2008 and so far, I have had no problems with it. It shoots great, very accurate and reliable. It's a better shooter than my 22. I am disapointed though with what I hear about the ambi mag release, especially after paying over $600 for it. If I could trade it in for a 21sf with standard release without being out of pocket to much, I would. One thing I am doing, is when I take out a full mag, I push up on the bottom of the mag before pushing the button.
I have a G21SF with ambi-safety, that I use for IDPA competition. I've done hundreds of mag changes without a problem. That includes dropping empty mags from slide lock and at the end of a stage dropping a mag that is still more than half full. Sounds to me like something is not right. You might want to talk with Glock.
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HH
Last edited by headhog; 03-15-2009 at 14:34.
Reason: Added info about ambi-safety
There is a long metal leaf spring with an indention it it. When the buttons are not pushed in, the spring keeps tension on the wider polymer piece that catches the notch in front of the magazine. It looks like the long spring is actually inserted into the front of the grip. From what I have read on glocktalk, it is the polymer that is the weak part in some guns... .
Interesting. The piece that catches the mag in my 21SF is metal, not polymer.
Also, my mag release not does return to center after use - if you do not slam the mag in after release or manually return the release to center, the mag will not catch.
Spending some time looking at the latch it looks like it cants clockwise (or ccw depending) when the release is pressed and one of the bottom corners protrudes slightly. It seems possible this corner could catch the mag on entry and pop the catch out of it's channel.
I'll be calling Glock on Monday. Thanks for the responses so far!
Thanks,......
Comforting to know that this may be a hit-n-miss issue.
I just picked an ambi 21sf up Thursday.
Range time next week!
For me in IDPA competition the ambi-safety is the way. I've had to shoot several weak-hand stages that required a reload. I never had to change my grip to reload. For me it's a time saver.
I've never seen a metal catch in a 21sf. All the ones i've looked at are polymer. It looks like it could be metal, but it is not. Meckanik, look closer at this piece when it is out of the gun. You need to detail strip and put this piece back in properly. It takes some pressure to seat it correctly. Do you know how to do this?
Interesting. The piece that catches the mag in my 21SF is metal, not polymer.
Also, my mag release not does return to center after use - if you do not slam the mag in after release or manually return the release to center, the mag will not catch.
Spending some time looking at the latch it looks like it cants clockwise (or ccw depending) when the release is pressed and one of the bottom corners protrudes slightly. It seems possible this corner could catch the mag on entry and pop the catch out of it's channel.
I'll be calling Glock on Monday. Thanks for the responses so far!
Aaah. A second clue here. The mag release button not returning to center means something ain't right. No matter which side you release the mag from the mag release button should return to center. My G21SF does this by itself with no coaxing of any kind. Also the mag catch in mine is metal, only the release button is polymer.
If the catch is not seated all the way in, the spring will rub on the release.
Ok, I disassembled the mag release (voluntarily this time), removed the spring, inspected the parts and reassembled.
The catch is definitely metal - it's ferrous. When I reassemble the release the spring does not look to be touching the release (plastic part) when working the release, it is resting on the mag catch. At this point the mag release does dot return to center after being depressed.
Also, the mag catch (the metal part) does not seem to snap or press into place. It drops into a set of channels with circular cutouts at the bottom of the channel. The ears on the mag catch drop into the cutouts but it takes no pressure to do so.
It appears the spring pressure pushes the tab on the front side of the catch into a groove on the back side of the release. The sides of the groove are elevated on either side; when the release is depressed the tab on the mag catch rides up on the elevated part of the groove and the top of the catch travels forward (to the front of the gun) and the mag is released.
I still haven't seen a diagram of the ambi assembly so I'm not sure I put it together right but I don't see another way or an error as of yet.
I think I have a better understanding of what happened. After the first time the mag catch fell out I reinstalled it by prying back on the mag catch spring then dropping the catch in. The following times I reinstalled it (after it fell out) I did the same thing.
I believe the weakened the pressure the spring exerts on the catch and why the release does not return. I cleaned up the release (it was scratched from installs) and straightened the top of the spring (bent from my attempts) and then bent it farther forward to increase pressure.
Right now, my mag release will return from the left side but not the right. I'm not sure if I got a weak spring but I'm going to try and order a replacement one and see how it goes. Thanks everyone for the help.
Hi guys. I am a new glocker and from what I can say a bit of an unlucky one....I have the new G17 with the ambi mag catch (same as the one you are discussing right here) and during the first day at the range it suddenly popped out and vanished into thick air... My local representative told me that it will take about 15 days to have the new part here from Glock, and I was wondering is there any on line shop (checked with Brownells but they have only the old one ie right handed) I can purchase it from? And how can we make sure it will not happen again?
I was wondering is there any on line shop (checked with Brownells but they have only the old one ie right handed) I can purchase it from? And how can we make sure it will not happen again?
Update: My local dealer will send an emergency letter to Austria (which I suppose is close enough, EU etc...) to send over 4 or 5 of these little parts so even if it happens again we 'll have the part handy.
Any idea how we can avoid that in the future or why it happens in the first place?
I bought a 21SF mid-2007 with the picatinny rail and ambi mag release because it was unique at that time. I had problems with the mag release and took it to the GSSF Match in San Antonio in Dec 2007 and was advised by the Armorer there to send it to Glock because he couldn't fix it. I did and about 4 months later I got it back. It was fixed but most of the wait was for the parts from Austria. If I was doing it over again I would have gotten the standard mag release.
Thanks Butch. I am from Athens, Hellas or Greece if you prefer. Nice pictures by the way. That small little thing is the one that I saw suddenly going down my receiver when I pushed the button to eject the mag. Good to know there is a good amount of steel in it! Any idea WHY the damn thing fell off place and how we can avoid it in the future? Just for your info, my local dealer told me that initially he was reluctant to import the 21SF and the 17MB (this is my Glock) beacuse of the problems he was hearing with the amphidextrous release button... Any feedback from you guys?
Any idea WHY the damn thing fell off place and how we can avoid it in the future?
My only guess would be that maybe it was not assembled completely/correctly in the first place? It's really hard to say without being able to examine it.
Quote:
Just for your info, my local dealer told me that initially he was reluctant to import the 21SF and the 17MB (this is my Glock) beacuse of the problems he was hearing with the amphidextrous release button... Any feedback from you guys?
One member here has reported that the steel piece on his broke, and a few others have complained about it being difficult to release a fully loaded magazine, but other than that, no real problems, just some 'lack of acceptance'....most seem to prefer the old style mag catch, even most of the left handed people it seems.
Can you post a few pictures of your G17 for us? And maybe the label on the box if you have it?
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