Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-12-2010, 17:34   #21
my762buzz
Senior Member
 
my762buzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,673
The Kalashnikov Klub


hmmmmmmmmm......


The Kalashnikov Klub
my762buzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 17:36   #22
Novocaine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,644
Cool info. And pics! Few notes:
To my knowledge AK was adopted in 49, not in 48.

Until it became AKM the gun’s official abbreviation was AK, not AK-47. When the receiver was switched from stamped to milled the official name became “Oblegchyonnyj (Lightened) 7.62mm avtomat Kalashnikova (AK)”.

Official abbreviation of the latest 74 is AK-74M. It makes sense if you think about it. My hunch is that calling it AKM-74 would be a bit confusing. It is for the same reason the gun was not called AKM-74 initially even though it was based on AKM, not on AK. There can only be one AKM

And a bit off-topic:
The gun was originally adopted without bayo. Bayonet appeared first with the Type 2 receiver and was redesigned for AKM. AKM bayonet was patterned after the diving knife designed for the Soviet navy scouts by Lt.Colonel Todorov(?).

At different development stages the gun had features some people can’t imagine life without: thumb safety, bolt hold open device, gas regulator, aluminum magazines and even a telescoping monopod that was stowed in a front pistol grip. All, obviously, deleted.
Novocaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 18:07   #23
my762buzz
Senior Member
 
my762buzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novocaine View Post
Cool info. And pics! Few notes:
To my knowledge AK was adopted in 49, not in 48.

Until it became AKM the gun’s official abbreviation was AK, not AK-47. When the receiver was switched from stamped to milled the official name became “Oblegchyonnyj (Lightened) 7.62mm avtomat Kalashnikova (AK)”.

Official abbreviation of the latest 74 is AK-74M. It makes sense if you think about it. My hunch is that calling it AKM-74 would be a bit confusing. It is for the same reason the gun was not called AKM-74 initially even though it was based on AKM, not on AK. There can only be one AKM

And a bit off-topic:
The gun was originally adopted without bayo. Bayonet appeared first with the Type 2 receiver and was redesigned for AKM. AKM bayonet was patterned after the diving knife designed for the Soviet navy scouts by Lt.Colonel Todorov(?).

At different development stages the gun had features some people can’t imagine life without: thumb safety, bolt hold open device, gas regulator, aluminum magazines and even a telescoping monopod that was stowed in a front pistol grip. All, obviously, deleted.

Ok cool. I definitely want your take on why they went with a 90 degree
gas block and Romania optioned not to on the AK74 5.45 guns and how this benefits the evolving design. No one else seemed to want to discuss this a while back and this thread is about the variations.

Last edited by my762buzz; 02-12-2010 at 18:27..
my762buzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 18:09   #24
my762buzz
Senior Member
 
my762buzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosC View Post
Next
By the way, great idea for a thread.
my762buzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 18:21   #25
banger
Senior Member
 
banger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Where evil lives
Posts: 1,379
CarlosC

WOW, simply WOW!!!!
banger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 19:00   #26
DB9
Senior Member
 
DB9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ID
Posts: 168
Great thread. I'm interested in possibly acquiring an AK sometime in the future. Thread bookmarked for later review.
__________________
G23 / 40-9
DB9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 20:48   #27
AggiePhil
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
 
AggiePhil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,382


Carlos, I must give credit where credit is due. You have outdone yourself with this thread. Thank you for all the photographs and information.
AggiePhil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 21:02   #28
1911austin
Senior Member
 
1911austin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,138


This needs to be a sticky. Very good information.
__________________
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men."-- Samuel Adams
1911austin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 21:41   #29
j-glock22
Senior Member
 
j-glock22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 1,937
Nice thread, very educational...
j-glock22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 22:25   #30
Novocaine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,644
Quote:
Originally Posted by my762buzz View Post
Ok cool. I definitely want your take on why they went with a 90 degree
gas block and Romania optioned not to on the AK74 5.45 guns and how this benefits the evolving design. No one else seemed to want to discuss this a while back and this thread is about the variations.
Well, the reason Russians went with 90 degree gas block (and made sure that the port hits the groove, not the land) is because the original slanted hole created the elongated oval footprint on the barrel that was sheering the smaller and faster 5.45 projectile. It took several years to detect and nail the problem.

I don’t know about Romanians but suspect the reason they stayed with AKM-type gas block is economics. Russians did not exactly share the AK-74 technology the way they shared AK-47 technology so those allies who decided to adopt 5.45 were left to go through their own teething problems. When Romanians designed MD86 Commando which had to have a new gas block integrated into the sight base they went with a 90 degree gas port.

Chinese used even more straightforward approach- drilled smaller hole.
Novocaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 23:39   #31
my762buzz
Senior Member
 
my762buzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novocaine View Post
Well, the reason Russians went with 90 degree gas block (and made sure that the port hits the groove, not the land) is because the original slanted hole created the elongated oval footprint on the barrel that was sheering the smaller and faster 5.45 projectile. It took several years to detect and nail the problem.

I don’t know about Romanians but suspect the reason they stayed with AKM-type gas block is economics. Russians did not exactly share the AK-74 technology the way they shared AK-47 technology so those allies who decided to adopt 5.45 were left to go through their own teething problems. When Romanians designed MD86 Commando which had to have a new gas block integrated into the sight base they went with a 90 degree gas port.

Chinese used even more straightforward approach- drilled smaller hole.
Its amazing what pressure behind a bullet or shotcup can do sometimes.
The saiga 12 shotguns which are smooth bore and have the 90 degree blocks
still can occasionally shear off a piece of plastic shot wad or cup that end up in the gas system. This is considering there is no land edge sticking inward and the hole is perpendicular to the bore. So, essentially, the pressure behind the wad has distorted the wad top profile upward into the gas port hole as it passes and the curved edge of the port hole intersecting the bore on the muzzle side shears off the plastic material.

Last edited by my762buzz; 02-12-2010 at 23:44..
my762buzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 03:05   #32
G23c
Senior Member
 
G23c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: houston, texas
Posts: 4,033
CarlosC, great info, thanks for the excellent post.
G23c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 08:15   #33
CarlosC
I love guns!
 
CarlosC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: TX
Posts: 4,226
This is what I am looking for...anyone with additional information or clarification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novocaine View Post
Cool info. And pics! Few notes:
To my knowledge AK was adopted in 49, not in 48.
I double checked...I have one source that states Kalashnikov was informed in 1947 that his design had been slated for acceptance by the Russian Army. An order by the Ministry of Armament dated January 21st, 1948, directs both Izhmash and Izhmekh to assist in supplying parts and assemblies for the new rifle. They issues another order in May of 1948 saying that the main production for the new rifle would be done exclusively by Izhmash starting in January of 1949.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novocaine View Post
Until it became AKM the gun’s official abbreviation was AK, not AK-47. When the receiver was switched from stamped to milled the official name became “Oblegchyonnyj (Lightened) 7.62mm avtomat Kalashnikova (AK)”.

Official abbreviation of the latest 74 is AK-74M. It makes sense if you think about it. My hunch is that calling it AKM-74 would be a bit confusing. It is for the same reason the gun was not called AKM-74 initially even though it was based on AKM, not on AK. There can only be one AKM
Excellent info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novocaine View Post
And a bit off-topic:
The gun was originally adopted without bayo. Bayonet appeared first with the Type 2 receiver and was redesigned for AKM. AKM bayonet was patterned after the diving knife designed for the Soviet navy scouts by Lt.Colonel Todorov(?).
That's correct, the bayonet was only fitted on the two latter milled receivers and on. Those would be the M1951 bayonets. The next one was the M1959 bayonet, which have the round pommel. The square pommel bayonets are the M1974 models. The newer style you see mostly with AK-74s is the M1983 model.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novocaine View Post
At different development stages the gun had features some people can’t imagine life without: thumb safety, bolt hold open device, gas regulator, aluminum magazines and even a telescoping monopod that was stowed in a front pistol grip. All, obviously, deleted.
Don't forget about the holes drilled into the barrel to act as a recoil compensator, the two piece gas piston/bolt carrier and, at one point, a two piece receiver that was hinged like an M-16's.
__________________
Pittsburgh Steelers fan till the day I die, and then some.
CarlosC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 08:19   #34
CarlosC
I love guns!
 
CarlosC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: TX
Posts: 4,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by my762buzz View Post
Ok cool. I definitely want your take on why they went with a 90 degree
gas block and Romania optioned not to on the AK74 5.45 guns and how this benefits the evolving design. No one else seemed to want to discuss this a while back and this thread is about the variations.
I'll have to dig up the source, but I read somewhere that while the gas block is the 45 degree style, the hole is 90 degrees. I t would be nice if someone who has removed one could verify that.
__________________
Pittsburgh Steelers fan till the day I die, and then some.
CarlosC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 09:04   #35
LSU Snapperhead
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 12
thank you

Thanks for all the info carlos. I always learn something new from your posts. Keep it up.




later
LSU Snapperhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 09:20   #36
GIockGuy24
Bring M&M's
 
GIockGuy24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: With Amber Lamps
Posts: 3,973
The original gas port in the barrel was drilled through the gas block. This made up for differences between parts. The AK's with vertical gas blocks have the gas port drilled in the barrel before the gas block is installed on the barrel of course. The RPK-74 seems to have angled gas block. This may be because it is a machine gun and it makes it easier to clean or the accuracy of a machine gun isn't as important as with a rifle. There is a tool to clean the vertical gas port though. The Galil has an angled gas port but it is a different angle than the AK angle. I do have a Romanian 5.45 rifle that I am going change the front sight block and the gas block on it, so I will be able to see how the barrel's gas looks. It's an early one with the thinner barrel and takes the 22mm muzzle brake. The later standard thickness Romanian 5.45 barrels may be made like the Bulgarian ones with a pre-drilled vertical hole.
GIockGuy24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 09:28   #37
GIockGuy24
Bring M&M's
 
GIockGuy24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: With Amber Lamps
Posts: 3,973
North Korea originally made milled receiver AK-47's. Later they went to stamped European type AKM's. They have Hungarian-looking front trunnions with odd looking C-shaped rear trunnions and a ribbed trigger guard. North Korea made milled receiver RPK's from 1963 to 1975 and now makes stamped receiver 5.45mm AK-74's with steel magazines.
GIockGuy24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 09:54   #38
Glockdude1
CLM Number 185
Federal Member
 
Glockdude1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Beaumont,Texas
Posts: 27,245


__________________
"Some People Are Like Slinkies. They're Not Really Good For Anything, But They Bring a Smile To Your Face When Pushed Down The Stairs."
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Glockdude1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 21:39   #39
DJ Niner
Moderator
 
DJ Niner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North-Central USA
Posts: 17,640
Another well-written/illustrated and informative thread; thanks, CarlosC!

Added to the list of CarlosC threads in the "already Stuck" thread (above), titled --

Sticky: Resources/links for AK owners/users...
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497434
DJ Niner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 22:01   #40
jdavionic
NRA Member
 
jdavionic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 12,132
Congrats on a job well done, Carlos. This should be a sticky. Very informative.
__________________
- JD

"No matter how bad it gets, if you're still alive it's just another bad day."
jdavionic is online now   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 21:02.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,403
381 Members
1,022 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31