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Old 02-13-2010, 08:52   #1
tarmac
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Pistol Grip Buttstock

I have a 12 gauge Remington Express with the 18Ē barrel, Cylinder Bore, and 2 shot magazine extension. Iím thinking of changing the factory synthetic stock for a Speedfeed 4 pistol grip buttstock. Any thoughts on this style stock?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=935944
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Old 02-13-2010, 09:02   #2
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Those are good stocks, especially if you get the one with the reduced length of pull.

bc
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Old 02-13-2010, 09:48   #3
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The adjustable LOP sounds great but I have heard personal opinions vary on the speed feed system. One guy said when he went to retrieve the first round, the 2nd round would forcefully fly out on the ground if he was under stress or pumped up full of adrenaline vs his old saddle setup. He also mentioned that his did not have enough spring tension to hold only one in place and it would sometimes fall out as he was loading the 1st shell? I hope that is not a common issue?

Of course this is not the guns fault but more of a training issue I suppose most would say since moving slower would stop this right? But then is it really a speed feed since you need to be cautious and smooth on retrieval or is it just an alternative way to carry 4 rounds of spare ammo?
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Old 02-13-2010, 11:20   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixflip View Post
The adjustable LOP sounds great but I have heard personal opinions vary on the speed feed system. One guy said when he went to retrieve the first round, the 2nd round would forcefully fly out on the ground if he was under stress or pumped up full of adrenaline vs his old saddle setup. He also mentioned that his did not have enough spring tension to hold only one in place and it would sometimes fall out as he was loading the 1st shell? I hope that is not a common issue?

Of course this is not the guns fault but more of a training issue I suppose most would say since moving slower would stop this right? But then is it really a speed feed since you need to be cautious and smooth on retrieval or is it just an alternative way to carry 4 rounds of spare ammo?

The stock Iím looking at is the standard design not the one that holds extra shells. I have my 870 fitted with a six shell side saddle. I have a link attached to my post showing the one Iím looking at.
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Old 02-13-2010, 11:27   #5
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Originally Posted by B Coyote View Post
Those are good stocks, especially if you get the one with the reduced length of pull.

bc


Agreed. I believe it's called the Speedfeed IV-S.

I have the Speedfeed III (pistolgripped stock w/shellholders).
It is a nice stock, but, the LOP is a little long, and I'm over 6'-05".
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Old 02-13-2010, 11:39   #6
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They are great stocks. The only complaint I have heard is that the grip feels a little blocky to some but that can be easily changed. I too recommend the IV-S version with shorter LOP.
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Old 02-13-2010, 11:42   #7
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Originally Posted by B Coyote View Post
Those are good stocks, especially if you get the one with the reduced length of pull.

bc
Did you have any trouble installing the stock? Did to have to use washers?
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Old 02-13-2010, 13:30   #8
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IME, the pistol stock reduces the overall usability of the fighting shotgun. It works well in a special tool role, but for general use the standard stock (properly fitted) is better.
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Old 02-13-2010, 13:43   #9
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I had the option of just about any kind of stock I wanted. I chose the stock you're looking at. Love it, as noted- make sure you are okay with the pull, because the longest ones are a little long for me. I have one on my issue and my personal shotguns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmac View Post
I have a 12 gauge Remington Express with the 18Ē barrel, Cylinder Bore, and 2 shot magazine extension. Iím thinking of changing the factory synthetic stock for a Speedfeed 4 pistol grip buttstock. Any thoughts on this style stock?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=935944
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Old 02-13-2010, 14:22   #10
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Is the shorter pull harder to install? Do you need to add washers to the long bolt that holds the stock?
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Old 02-14-2010, 01:37   #11
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I understand they do require some fitting with the forend.
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Old 02-14-2010, 04:07   #12
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IME, the pistol stock reduces the overall usability of the fighting shotgun. It works well in a special tool role, but for general use the standard stock (properly fitted) is better.

I will agree with you in the case of Mossberg shotguns due to their tang safeties and slide release position.

However, in the case of the Remington 870, which is the gun the OP is asking about, I have to disagree. The safety becomes easier to use with a SF IV or SF IV-S stock especially if used with a Vang Comp BHS. I find every aspect of shooting a "fighting shotgun" easier with the IV-S than the conventional stock.

The only time I prefer a conventional shotgun stock on a 870 is for a trap/bird hunting gun.
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Old 02-14-2010, 10:13   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixflip View Post
The adjustable LOP sounds great but I have heard personal opinions vary on the speed feed system. One guy said when he went to retrieve the first round, the 2nd round would forcefully fly out on the ground if he was under stress or pumped up full of adrenaline vs his old saddle setup. He also mentioned that his did not have enough spring tension to hold only one in place and it would sometimes fall out as he was loading the 1st shell? I hope that is not a common issue?

Of course this is not the guns fault but more of a training issue I suppose most would say since moving slower would stop this right? But then is it really a speed feed since you need to be cautious and smooth on retrieval or is it just an alternative way to carry 4 rounds of spare ammo?
I think speed feed stock systems are great, much better than side saddles IMHO however you have to be aware that some brands of shells do not have enough of a "lip" around the edge/rim of the crimp for them to reliably catch on. & without a good lip on the rim of the crimp of the shell it'll cause the problems you describe.
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Old 02-14-2010, 11:28   #14
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ive got one for sale on ar15.com $75 shipped...
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:37   #15
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However, in the case of the Remington 870, which is the gun the OP is asking about, I have to disagree. The safety becomes easier to use with a SF IV or SF IV-S stock especially if used with a Vang Comp BHS. I find every aspect of shooting a "fighting shotgun" easier with the IV-S than the conventional stock.
That may be your personal experience. I tend to reflect on what I have seen over a couple of decades training people to use the shotgun in fighting situations, and that experience has shown the regular design stock works out much better for most situations than does the pistol grip design, be it Mossberg, Remington, Winchester, Beretta, or others. Shortening the LOP does make quite a difference to the good, but the pistol grip does the opposite. YMMV.
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Old 02-15-2010, 17:08   #16
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That may be your personal experience. I tend to reflect on what I have seen over a couple of decades training people to use the shotgun in fighting situations, and that experience has shown the regular design stock works out much better for most situations than does the pistol grip design, be it Mossberg, Remington, Winchester, Beretta, or others. Shortening the LOP does make quite a difference to the good, but the pistol grip does the opposite. YMMV.
I disagree totally. Plus the speed feed style stock hasn't been used for decades. I find it much easier to sight up quickly, absorb recoil. If you notice the Army/Marines/Swat/Sar/PJ's/seals, etc.. pretty much all use 870 and Benelli's with speed feed type stocks with shortened pull(mostly because they wear armor). It may be your preference, but not from many operators I've served with. I remember hearing that argument when the Army went from the M14 to M16's.
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Old 02-15-2010, 19:33   #17
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Originally Posted by David Armstrong View Post
That may be your personal experience. I tend to reflect on what I have seen over a couple of decades training people to use the shotgun in fighting situations, and that experience has shown the regular design stock works out much better for most situations than does the pistol grip design, be it Mossberg, Remington, Winchester, Beretta, or others. Shortening the LOP does make quite a difference to the good, but the pistol grip does the opposite. YMMV.
What problems did these people you observed typically have on the pistol gripped stocks? Would these same people prefer a conventional stock rifle like an M1A to a pistol gripped stocked AR10?
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Old 02-16-2010, 07:08   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fragout View Post
I disagree totally. Plus the speed feed style stock hasn't been used for decades. I find it much easier to sight up quickly, absorb recoil. If you notice the Army/Marines/Swat/Sar/PJ's/seals, etc.. pretty much all use 870 and Benelli's with speed feed type stocks with shortened pull(mostly because they wear armor). It may be your preference, but not from many operators I've served with. I remember hearing that argument when the Army went from the M14 to M16's.
When I was in the Corps, and in an MOS that used shotguns every day, none of our M590s or M870s had a pistol grip. The first shotgun that did was the Benelli, which was being phased in as I was getting out.

Never even saw an 870 with a pistol grip.
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Old 02-16-2010, 07:15   #19
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+1. Far prefer the pistol grip.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg View Post
I had the option of just about any kind of stock I wanted. I chose the stock you're looking at. Love it, as noted- make sure you are okay with the pull, because the longest ones are a little long for me. I have one on my issue and my personal shotguns.
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:43   #20
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If you notice the Army/Marines/Swat/Sar/PJ's/seals, etc.. pretty much all use 870 and Benelli's with speed feed type stocks with shortened pull(mostly because they wear armor).
And there is your difference. Short LOP and pistol grips have come about for a specialized CQB role while wearing bulky armor. For general defensive purposes the standard stock works better for most people. Again, reducing LOP often helps, going with a pistol grip rarely helps. The many operators I've worked with tend to have standard style stocks on their personal fighting shotguns.

Last edited by David Armstrong; 02-16-2010 at 09:52..
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:46   #21
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What problems did these people you observed typically have on the pistol gripped stocks? Would these same people prefer a conventional stock rifle like an M1A to a pistol gripped stocked AR10?
You shoot a rifle and a shotgun differently. Thus what works well for a rifle is not automatically what works well for a shotgun. And it wasn't that they had problems because of a pistol grip, it was that they performed better with a standard stock for most exercises.
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:49   #22
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When I was in the Corps, and in an MOS that used shotguns every day, none of our M590s or M870s had a pistol grip.
And you still find that to be true with the occupation that uses the fighting shotgun the most these days, law enforcement. As a percentage, very few patrol shotguns will have a pistol grip.
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:53   #23
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Every one of our patrol shotguns has a pistol grip. Wouldn't go back. Between additional cost and fitting in traditional cruiser mounts, I can see why some would forego the functionality.
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Old 02-16-2010, 18:49   #24
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hardly anyone uses a SG in LE. Maybe for lesslethal rounds, but a SG is almost stupid for anything policing wise. Just my internet opinion.
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Old 02-16-2010, 18:52   #25
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You shoot a rifle and a shotgun differently. Thus what works well for a rifle is not automatically what works well for a shotgun. And it wasn't that they had problems because of a pistol grip, it was that they performed better with a standard stock for most exercises.
I have to wonder if that was because they just weren't used to the pistol grip or if the exercises had not been updated for the pistol grip.
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