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Old 10-14-2010, 16:21   #26
emt1581
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Originally Posted by bcvojak View Post
Didn't say "stacks" of bills. In any currency crisis there will likely be a time when you will have zero access to your money in the bank (bank holiday / bank closings). Odds are that debit can credit cards will also be frozen. During the early days no one will take PMs. You will need to go to a dealer, cash in you PMs, then spend the money.

It is much easier if you have $500 or so stashed away in the safe that you can quickly access so that you can buy a tank full of gas and a trunk full of food. Despite the dollar crashing, there will always be people willing to take worthless pieces of paper, just as they have been trained to do all their lives.
Ohhhh ok...I was thinking like stacks of $20's and maybe 5-10 grand worth.

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Old 10-14-2010, 19:07   #27
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Does the Federal Reserve do its trading online through Scwab or Ameritrade or do they use a broker?

Where are the securities held?
Now yer just poking them with a sharp stick.


Question for the masses: If the government controls the stock market, why did it go from 1525 to 677 in less than 2 years???? Or is it like the DMV - they are only in control when it's for evil. When they are inept, it doesn't count?

It's puff puff PASS, dewds.


And boy do I wish I had bot some silver at $9 - just to sell it to people now. Making near a triple on my $ would have been cool. I'm only up 35% or so on my BP.
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Old 10-14-2010, 19:08   #28
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Oh, and one more thing: Is it better to have a strong dollar or a weak one?

Who wants to answer that. Seems the same people that rail against a falling dollar rail against the rising dollar, too. You can't have it both ways.


Dangit - I'm poking with my own sharp stick!
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Old 10-14-2010, 19:37   #29
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And boy do I wish I had bot some silver at $9 - just to sell it to people now. Making near a triple on my $ would have been cool. I'm only up 35% or so on my BP.
Tell me about it! I wanted to buy Silver when it was just over $10. My broker told me it was a bad idea. I'm just glad I went against what he said and bought when it was at $16-$18! It's not like I'm going to retire on the money I made...but at least if/when our USD becomes worthless, I'll have enough to buy some stuff.

Something I realized today. I've seen people over on a silver forum getting all tickled pink that their silver is shooting up in price. And I suppose if you have a few hundred pounds of it you can live quite comfortably. But the more USD's an ounce costs, the less the USD is worth. The value of PM's pretty much remain constant. But in the grand scheme of things, screw the few extra bucks silver holders are making, I'm thinking things are about to get UGLY!

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Old 10-14-2010, 21:35   #30
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Originally Posted by Dennis in MA View Post
Question for the masses: If the government controls the stock market, why did it go from 1525 to 677 in less than 2 years???? Or is it like the DMV - they are only in control when it's for evil. When they are inept, it doesn't count?
Who said specifically the government controls the stock market? I believe what I said was that it was manipulated. Now I will admit we are approaching a collusion between corporate and government that approaches the definition of facism, so yea they do have a hand in it but once again you paraphrase incorrectly to deflect from the fact that you have no facts.

To actually answer a question you posed: because bubbles must burst; period. The housing market was an artifical bubble inflated by government intrusion into the free market (Community Reinvestment Act) and banks (private) using creative and down right dishonest methods of qualifying people for loans they shouldn't get but the government believes they should. Keeping interest rates far too low for far too long by the Fed (public/private entity) kept the easy money flowing into homes. Banks then take advantage of the bubble and package all sorts of mortgage backed securities that are billed by the rating agencies (private) as being iron-clad AAA investments. So the artifical bubble was created by a collection of private and government entities.

There are all sorts of factors that lead to manipulation, and to answer your other smart-***** question: even the highs are due to government ineptitude. They try to directly intervene into earn votes and keep their jobs, and in doing so they push things way too high way too fast and screw with the freemarket system to the point of no return.

Everything that occurs naturally finds a natural equilibrium on its own without outside influence. There are way, WAY too many factors and systems and individuals to effectively control an entire eco-system. The same goes for the free market system as it is intended to exist.

You liberals love to scream about how we are damaging the environment with our pollution and even a small amount of pollution will eventually build up and destroy the eco-system. Well the free market is the exact same way. It is a delicate eco-system that even a small amount of artifical interference will damage. We have screwed with the free market for so long and so thoroughly we have polluted it beyond repair.
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Old 10-14-2010, 21:41   #31
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So are you just gonna mock or are you going to answer an actual question?

Quote:
If you don't buy the "manipulation" theory, why is it that insider trading shows over 1000-1 are withdrawing money and mutual funds have been hemoraging cash as everyday people are pulling their money out as well.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/pag...ate-hit-80-bil
So if everyone is pulling money out of the market so fast, how is it still going up?
How can more people be withdrawing money from the market than putting into it for 23 consecutive months at the same time the market continues to rise?

Does supply and demand no longer apply?
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Old 10-15-2010, 16:05   #32
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Pay attention, Dennis.

Don't believe the markets are rigged by our own government?

Executive Order 12631 signed by Ronald Reagan in 1988. The "President's Working Group On Financial Markets". We know them as the "Plunge Protection Team". Guess who is on that team: The Secretary of the Treasury, the Chairman of the Federal Reserve, The Chairman of the Security and Exchange Commission, and the Chairman of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission.

And what do you think it is they do?

In this crucial upcoming election, TPTB can see the writing on the wall and I bet they are pulling out all the stops to keep this market solvent...at least until after the elections.

SC
You used a chart that election Years outperform average years since 1900 as proof that the "Plunge Protection Team" started by President Reagan's Executive Order in 1988 manipulates markets?

Can I give you a hint? 1988 was the last year of Reagan's second term. Even if he could have maipulated markets with his working group he couldn't run for a third term... So what was his motive?
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Old 10-15-2010, 16:38   #33
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You used a chart that election Years outperform average years since 1900 as proof that the "Plunge Protection Team" started by President Reagan's Executive Order in 1988 manipulates markets?

Can I give you a hint? 1988 was the last year of Reagan's second term. Even if he could have maipulated markets with his working group he couldn't run for a third term... So what was his motive?
His handlers made him sign it. They knew his judgement was affected by his Alzheimers disease, and simply waited for an opportune moment.

Source: Bob Chapman

http://theinternationalforecaster.com/

http://bobchapman.blogspot.com/

Bob was his neighbor in Malibu, and was a close, personal friend. When Bob asked Ron why he appointed all those CFR folks to key cabinet positions, his response was, "They'd kill me if I didn't. They are the ones who got me elected".

What were his handlers motives? Your guess is as good as any...

Control of the markets, maybe?

By the way, this behind-the-scenes control of US presidents has been going on for at least 100 years. Research the Banking Act of 1913, which established the Federal Reserve. What did they have on "Woody" Wilson to make him sign that bill? A dalliance with a young coed when he was President of Princeton University.

When asked by a reporter why he signed the Emergency Banking Act of 1933, which closed banks and outlawed gold ownership, FDR said candidly, "That's what I was told to do."

Read "The Creature from Jekyll Island" by G. Edward Griffin; watch "The Money Masters" DVD and get an education about the international banking cartel's role in geopolitics over the last 200 years, for starters.

Then, maybe we can talk.

“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
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Old 10-15-2010, 16:43   #34
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I am glad as heck I have 387 ounces sitting in a safe deposit box. When it hits $30 I MAY dump it.
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Old 10-15-2010, 16:48   #35
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. . . fed pumps up the market before an election. That's a new one on me.

Don't know about the Fed but the Saudi's have dropped oil prices prior to every Presidential election since Nixon.
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Old 10-15-2010, 17:00   #36
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Can I give you a hint? 1988 was the last year of Reagan's second term. Even if he could have maipulated markets with his working group he couldn't run for a third term... So what was his motive?
Is this a serious question given the current midterms? If the markets tank during an election year, whatever party is in power has a tendency to lose. It isn't Reagan or Carter or Obama or Bush, it is the Democratic party or the Republican party and whichever party the buisness world thinks will be beneficial.

A rising market is not a guaranteed win, but a sinking market is a huge weight around the neck of whatever political party lays claim to the guy in office.
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Old 10-15-2010, 17:31   #37
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I am glad as heck I have 387 ounces sitting in a safe deposit box. When it hits $30 I MAY dump it.
When it hits $30 that's probably an indication you want to HOLD it...not dump it.

As I said before, once it gets higher and higher in relation to the dollar, that's not a good thing. I means were are about to be or are already in some serious s***.

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Old 10-15-2010, 17:40   #38
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Tell me about it! I wanted to buy Silver when it was just over $10. My broker told me it was a bad idea. I'm just glad I went against what he said and bought when it was at $16-$18! It's not like I'm going to retire on the money I made...but at least if/when our USD becomes worthless, I'll have enough to buy some stuff.

Something I realized today. I've seen people over on a silver forum getting all tickled pink that their silver is shooting up in price. And I suppose if you have a few hundred pounds of it you can live quite comfortably. But the more USD's an ounce costs, the less the USD is worth. The value of PM's pretty much remain constant. But in the grand scheme of things, screw the few extra bucks silver holders are making, I'm thinking things are about to get UGLY!

-Emt1581
Assuming you are buying stuff with silver.

Wheat - not going up in price.

TV's - not going up in price.

Automobiles - not going up in price.

If there was this crazy "inflation" thing going on, then you'd be all set.
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Old 10-15-2010, 17:44   #39
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So are you just gonna mock or are you going to answer an actual question?



How can more people be withdrawing money from the market than putting into it for 23 consecutive months at the same time the market continues to rise?

Does supply and demand no longer apply?
You really don't understand how the stock market works, do you?

I'm not being sarcastic. You just don't. Take a search on Morningstar surveys of average investor returns and you might find an answer.
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Old 10-15-2010, 17:45   #40
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Who said specifically the government controls the stock market?
THIS GUY!

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Pay attention, Dennis.

Don't believe the markets are rigged by our own government?
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Old 10-15-2010, 17:56   #41
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Assuming you are buying stuff with silver.

Wheat - not going up in price.

TV's - not going up in price.

Automobiles - not going up in price.

If there was this crazy "inflation" thing going on, then you'd be all set.
I'm not sure I understand you there. I mean, my whole point is that, if silver is going up in price in relation to the dollar it's not a great thing unless you are sitting on a mountain of silver and are also able to stay away from any rioting/riff raff that might be happening as a result of the bad economic times.

But are you saying that if things aren't going up in price...but silver is...cash some in and buy stuff or what?

Thanks!

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Old 10-15-2010, 18:04   #42
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When it hits $30 that's probably an indication you want to HOLD it...not dump it.

As I said before, once it gets higher and higher in relation to the dollar, that's not a good thing. I means were are about to be or are already in some serious s***.

-Emt1581

I have checked e-bay gold, and silver, prices at least daily for many years. Today silver sold a few times for $30 per ounce, and the 20 Franc Swiss Gold Coins were going for $290. Crazy prices but there is only about 20% of the sellers there usually is. Looks like those that have it are sitting tight, and those that want it will pay a premium.

Silver is being sold for 20%+ over spot, and gold at $1371, todays close, is getting close to those numbers.

Looks like a LOT of people are scared to death of Obama's "CHANGE" and are heading to the lifeboats.
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Old 10-15-2010, 18:04   #43
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Assuming you are buying stuff with silver.

Wheat - not going up in price.

TV's - not going up in price.

Automobiles - not going up in price.

If there was this crazy "inflation" thing going on, then you'd be all set.
FACTS trump opinions: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ppi.nr0.htm

And we ALL know cost increases are passed on to the consumer.


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Old 10-15-2010, 18:28   #44
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If there was this crazy "inflation" thing going on, then you'd be all set.
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com...g-nuclear.html
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Old 10-15-2010, 18:28   #45
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I am glad as heck I have 387 ounces sitting in a safe deposit box. When it hits $30 I MAY dump it.
I wouldn't keep anything valuable in a safe deposit box, if the government seized gold one time doesn't mean they won't seize silver next time.
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Old 10-15-2010, 18:30   #46
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I wouldn't keep anything valuable in a safe deposit box, if the government seized gold one time doesn't mean they won't seize silver next time.
Excellent point and also the reason I will never pay for one.

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Old 10-15-2010, 18:44   #47
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So, the idea is to use silver as money to buy things in a SHTF scenario?
And, if there is a huge crisis and the banks slam the doors closed (ie: you can't get into the building) how do you get your silver out of the safety deposit box?
If things are so dire that currency has broken down completely, who would be willing to take silver -vs- gasoline or wheat or whatever as payment?
If things broke down to where currency didn't work anymore, how would silver trade in exchange for goods work? Someone would have to want your silver it to use for something else for it to be of value, and it would have to hold value in your particular area... correct?
You can cash in the silver at some point, but based on the above comments it would just be getting cashed in on worthless paper currency or notes.
I'm confused by the whole concept. I realize in history these things had value, but I'm not seeing how that translates into value in the future framed against a breakup of society, law and order.
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Old 10-15-2010, 18:59   #48
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So, the idea is to use silver as money to buy things in a SHTF scenario?
And, if there is a huge crisis and the banks slam the doors closed (ie: you can't get into the building) how do you get your silver out of the safety deposit box?
If things are so dire that currency has broken down completely, who would be willing to take silver -vs- gasoline or wheat or whatever as payment?
If things broke down to where currency didn't work anymore, how would silver trade in exchange for goods work? Someone would have to want your silver it to use for something else for it to be of value, and it would have to hold value in your particular area... correct?
You can cash in the silver at some point, but based on the above comments it would just be getting cashed in on worthless paper currency or notes.
I'm confused by the whole concept. I realize in history these things had value, but I'm not seeing how that translates into value in the future framed against a breakup of society, law and order.
I'll be honest, up until about a month or two ago, I was confused as well...and I figured usable/consumable goods would be far more desired than PM's. But really, PM's have been an agreed upon hold of value for thousands of years. So yes, I believe they will be a good currency compared to paper which just symbolizes value.

What still confuses me is how someone will establish an agreed upon value of the PM. The typical response is "supply and demand". But someone who's in a jam and about to die without water might pay 20oz. of gold for one bottle of water....is that even remotely a fair deal? Wouldn't the person about to die be better off just plugging the guy over charging? And wouldn't the gouger deserve what he gets? These are questions and suggestions that are often frowned upon and scoffed at by a lot of PM holders...but no one can really offer an intelligent solution around gouging.

But aside from the gouging issue PM's really are an intelligent way to do business. Think about it...it's an element. No exchange rates, no currencies to worry about losing/gaining "value", etc. It's universal.

Think about life now though...is money all you need? Hell no!! You need food/water, shelter, some money, guns/ammo, medical supplies, etc...you'll need the exact same supplies should the SHTF.

Back to your view of the future let me ask this. If something has had value for thousands of years, is valuable now, why would it be worthless in the future?

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Old 10-15-2010, 19:33   #49
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I wouldn't keep anything valuable in a safe deposit box, if the government seized gold one time doesn't mean they won't seize silver next time.
They did demand that AMERICAN gold coins be turned in. Coins with collector value were exempt, which is why I am hot on the 20 Franc French, Swiss, and Belgium coins. They are collectors pieces but have very little, less than 10%, over spot prices. Also the fractional coins would be easier to barter, if need be, and would slide under the radar with the new $600 limit Obama attached to his Health Care Bill.
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Old 10-15-2010, 19:36   #50
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They did demand that AMERICAN gold coins be turned in. Coins with collector value were exempt, which is why I am hot on the 20 Franc French, Swiss, and Belgium coins. They are collectors pieces but have very little, less than 10%, over spot prices. Also the fractional coins would be easier to barter, if need be, and would slide under the radar with the new $600 limit Obama attached to his Health Care Bill.

So what stops them from deleting the word American in a future bill?? And at that point is the average American even following what the gov. says anymore and just handing over their life savings??

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