[Big Bird]

Originally Posted by VBG23

Is this a serious question given the current midterms? If the markets tank during an election year, whatever party is in power has a tendency to lose. It isn't Reagan or Carter or Obama or Bush, it is the Democratic party or the Republican party and whichever party the buisness world thinks will be beneficial.

A rising market is not a guaranteed win, but a sinking market is a huge weight around the neck of whatever political party lays claim to the guy in office.

OK then...well I guess they Democrats really screwed the pooch this go-round because they really haven't done very well in terms of manipulating the markets.

I mean seriously? If they can do it...why not do it all the time? Why not create perpetual prosperity? Why would any political party in power EVER let something like a Recession, Market down turn, Depression EVER happen? People would gladly vote in a party that could produce perpetual prosperity. So if they control the markets it begs the question...

Exactly HOW does the government prop up the stock market? Where do all these buy orders come from? Who holds the stock? After all major shareholders in public corporations are public record?

[1 old 0311]

Originally Posted by emt1581

So what stops them from deleting the word American in a future bill?? And at that point is the average American even following what the gov. says anymore and just handing over their life savings??

-Emt1581

Even with Bill Clinton (Ruby Ridge/Wayco/perjury) there was still a 'kind' of limit to what Presidential powers could be interpreted as. With Obama he has SAID and SHOWN there is NO limit to what he thinks his powers are limited to.

My cash, and metals, are safer in a safe deposit box, BUT if the political climate gets a bit dicy I am prepared, within minutes, to get out the shovel.

[emt1581]

Originally Posted by 1 old 0311

Even with Bill Clinton (Ruby Ridge/Wayco/perjury) there was still a 'kind' of limit to what Presidential powers could be interpreted as. With Obama he has SAID and SHOWN there is NO limit to what he thinks his powers are limited to.

My cash, and metals, are safer in a safe deposit box, BUT if the political climate gets a bit dicy I am prepared, within minutes, to get out the shovel.

Can't the president issue executive orders for a LOT of things? I know some have time limits but in the mean time, what stops the initial order from being given?

I guess if you are prepared within maybe 5-10 minutes to go grab everything out of the box fine, but who says you'll have that long?

Personally, I think having a good secure vault at home is much safer so long as you layer your security (steel/concrete, security system, dog, guns, motion lighting, etc.). But to each his/her own.

-Emt1581

[SilverCity]

Originally Posted by emt1581

So what stops them from deleting the word American in a future bill?? And at that point is the average American even following what the gov. says anymore and just handing over their life savings??

-Emt1581

When they come for it, give them your copper and lead.


SC

[emt1581]

Originally Posted by SilverCity

When they come for it, give them your copper and lead.


SC

Well yeah, but that's cutting to the chase. He threw out the whole idea of things being written on paper...

-Emt1581

[SilverCity]

Originally Posted by emt1581

Well yeah, but that's cutting to the chase. He threw out the whole idea of things being written on paper...

-Emt1581

1933 was a whole different ballgame. Gold was actually money ($20 Eagle) and the bankers could not inflate the money supply as long as the dollar was tied to something in limited supply. Much cheaper to cut the dollar loose...

BTW, few actually complied then, and I am sure Americans would never comply today.Very few (maybe 1-2%) hold bullion inside the country. Most hold it in paper form with the GLD or SLV.

The goonies are WAY more interested in approximately 3-5 TRILLION dollars currently held in IRA, 401Ks, and pension funds. In fact, we will probably see legislation enacted this year or next to confiscate ALL of the money and force people to take "govt. guaranteed" annuities in the form of U.S. treasuries in exchange. Maybe voluntary at first, then mandatory. The idea has been floated around in govt meetings for the past 2 years.

Get your money "off the grid" and out of their hands.



SC

[emt1581]

Originally Posted by SilverCity

1933 was a whole different ballgame. Gold was actually money ($20 Eagle) and the bankers could not inflate the money supply as long as the dollar was tied to something in limited supply. Much cheaper to cut the dollar loose...

BTW, few actually complied then, and I am sure Americans would never comply today.Very few (maybe 1-2%) hold bullion inside the country. Most hold it in paper form with the GLD or SLV.

The goonies are WAY more interested in approximately 3-5 TRILLION dollars currently held in IRA, 401Ks, and pension funds. In fact, we will probably see legislation enacted this year or next to confiscate ALL of the money and force people to take "govt. guaranteed" annuities in the form of U.S. treasuries in exchange. Maybe voluntary at first, then mandatory.

The idea has been floated around in govt meetings for the past 2 years. Get your money "off the grid" and out of their hands.



SC

This is why I put most of my money into guns/ammo. It's a LOT harder to confiscate something that can kill you.

-Emt1581

[JK-linux]

Originally Posted by emt1581

I'll be honest, up until about a month or two ago, I was confused as well...and I figured usable/consumable goods would be far more desired than PM's. But really, PM's have been an agreed upon hold of value for thousands of years. So yes, I believe they will be a good currency compared to paper which just symbolizes value.

What still confuses me is how someone will establish an agreed upon value of the PM. The typical response is "supply and demand". But someone who's in a jam and about to die without water might pay 20oz. of gold for one bottle of water....is that even remotely a fair deal? Wouldn't the person about to die be better off just plugging the guy over charging? And wouldn't the gouger deserve what he gets? These are questions and suggestions that are often frowned upon and scoffed at by a lot of PM holders...but no one can really offer an intelligent solution around gouging.

But aside from the gouging issue PM's really are an intelligent way to do business. Think about it...it's an element. No exchange rates, no currencies to worry about losing/gaining "value", etc. It's universal.

Think about life now though...is money all you need? Hell no!! You need food/water, shelter, some money, guns/ammo, medical supplies, etc...you'll need the exact same supplies should the SHTF.

Back to your view of the future let me ask this. If something has had value for thousands of years, is valuable now, why would it be worthless in the future?

-Emt1581

Thanks for the info. I think I'll stick with stocking up on other things. I can't see myself selling extra food, wood or ammunition for pieces of metal, especially if there is no intrinsic use for it other than dentistry. Leads to the question of how to find a good dentist after the big one, and whether we'll just go back to pulling teeth instead of filling them. Not saying it would be worthless, just that I don't see it's worth personally. Good luck all.

[emt1581]

Originally Posted by JK-linux

Thanks for the info. I think I'll stick with stocking up on other things. I can't see myself selling extra food, wood or ammunition for pieces of metal, especially if there is no intrinsic use for it other than dentistry. Leads to the question of how to find a good dentist after the big one, and whether we'll just go back to pulling teeth instead of filling them. Not saying it would be worthless, just that I don't see it's worth personally. Good luck all.

You should really search my threads. Seems like you have the same questions I have/had. Just last month I did one on the dentist issue...

-Emt1581

[SilverCity]

My dentist will accept gold and silver for dental work. Now if I could just find a doctor, a veterinarian, a car mechanic, grocer, etc.

[emt1581]

Originally Posted by SilverCity

My dentist will accept gold and silver for dental work. Now if I could just find a doctor, a veterinarian, a car mechanic, grocer, etc.

Actually there was a guy on one of the forums I post on that was saying his vet DOES accept silver bullion.

-Emt1581

[VBG23]

[QUOTE=Dennis in MA;16148570]
Wheat - not going up in price.

[QUOTE]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-1...y-outlook.html

[VBG23]

Originally Posted by Big Bird

OK then...well I guess they Democrats really screwed the pooch this go-round because they really haven't done very well in terms of manipulating the markets.

I'm sure I have already said it, whether you want to listen or not. The free market cannot be held at bay for too long. What goes up must come down, bubbles burst; pick your cute little quip to explain it. The massive bubbles and busts we have been seeing for decades now is a direct result of trying to artificially push the markets and economy too high too fast without any firm foundation and the resulting correction.

This is why any market dip is usually referred to as a "correction." It went too high too fast due to whatever reason, and is now falling back in line with its true vaule.

The latest was caused by the sub-prime market explosion and resulting housing boom combined with lower than average interest rates and easy free money for anyone with a pen.

Doesn't matter how much anyone wants it to stay inflated, eventually artificially "robust" economies collapse back to reflect their fundamentals. The role of the Fed and every other financial agency is to reinflate the bubble as fast as possbile with low interest rates and stacks of devalued cash.

[Big Bird]

Originally Posted by VBG23

I'm sure I have already said it, whether you want to listen or not. The free market cannot be held at bay for too long. What goes up must come down, bubbles burst; pick your cute little quip to explain it. The massive bubbles and busts we have been seeing for decades now is a direct result of trying to artificially push the markets and economy too high too fast without any firm foundation and the resulting correction.

This is why any market dip is usually referred to as a "correction." It went too high too fast due to whatever reason, and is now falling back in line with its true vaule.

The latest was caused by the sub-prime market explosion and resulting housing boom combined with lower than average interest rates and easy free money for anyone with a pen.

Doesn't matter how much anyone wants it to stay inflated, eventually artificially "robust" economies collapse back to reflect their fundamentals. The role of the Fed and every other financial agency is to reinflate the bubble as fast as possbile with low interest rates and stacks of devalued cash.

Can't have it both ways. Either the government can control the markets or they can't. Your posts suggest they manipulate the markets every election cycle. That's every 2 years. So why would the markets sink at the end of the Clinton Presidency? Why would the markets suck during the ENTIRE Carter presidency? Why would FDR's third term STILL be mired in a Recession? Why would Ike's first term end in a Recession? If you say the markets corrected and the government couldn't do anything about it then you are by default admitting the the government isn't successful at controlling the markets...

I understand the relationship between a bubble and credit/money supply. But that's not the same thing as controlling markets. That's riding the wave. And if history is any guide it hasn't been done in any way shape or form to manipulate an election cycle. If you believe that I suggest you look at the current election cycle and PLEASE show me how the markets are working towards the Democrats benefit? How did the crash of the Tech Bubble in 2001 during the later part of the Clinton Administration benefit the Democrats and how come they couldn't manipulate it to their benefit?

Oh and BTW, nobody has yet addressed how a chart with a 110 year market history comparison validates the claim that Reagan's Executive Order signed in 1988 manipulates the stock market???? Which BTW pre-dates the whole CFR/Bilderberger nonsense...

[UneasyRider]

It's interesting to see silver and gold go so high after all of the PM debates that have gone on here. We are going to tank some day soon and when we do those PM's will keep going up. FerFal said that people in his country sold gold at $4,000 thinking that they had made a killing, but the currency that they put their profits in just kept inflating to 100 to 1 type numbers.

Hang on to your PM's.

[Big Bird]

Originally Posted by UneasyRider

It's interesting to see silver and gold go so high after all of the PM debates that have gone on here. We are going to tank some day soon and when we do those PM's will keep going up. FerFal said that people in his country sold gold at $4,000 thinking that they had made a killing, but the currency that they put their profits in just kept inflating to 100 to 1 type numbers.

Hang on to your PM's.

The price of Gold has had almost no correlation with inflation for the last 32 years according to a study by Ibbotson. Take Gold's high point in 1985 at $850 an ounce and today it would have to be worth over $2,200 an ounce to just keep up with inflation. Forget the high point--take the average price of the 80's and the metal still hasn't kept pace with inflation Over the last three years the price of Gold has gone up dramatically. Yet inflation has been below 2% for most of that time.
The price of Gold is reasonably correlated with the value of the dollar on the world's currency markets. Since it seems clear that the current administration is going to pursue a weak dollar strategy to help prop up manufacturing its not unreasonable to use Gold as a hedge.

[UneasyRider]

Originally Posted by Big Bird

The price of Gold has had almost no correlation with inflation for the last 32 years according to a study by Ibbotson. Take Gold's high point in 1985 at $850 an ounce and today it would have to be worth over $2,200 an ounce to just keep up with inflation. Forget the high point--take the average price of the 80's and the metal still hasn't kept pace with inflation Over the last three years the price of Gold has gone up dramatically. Yet inflation has been below 2% for most of that time.
The price of Gold is reasonably correlated with the value of the dollar on the world's currency markets. Since it seems clear that the current administration is going to pursue a weak dollar strategy to help prop up manufacturing its not unreasonable to use Gold as a hedge.

If it did who cares. I am saying that getting out of PM's into inflating dollars is stupid IMHO, keep your PM's.

[Big Bird]

Originally Posted by UneasyRider

If it did who cares. I am saying that getting out of PM's into inflating dollars is stupid IMHO, keep your PM's.

To what end?

[wonderwolf]

Originally Posted by bcvojak

It is much easier if you have $500 or so stashed away in the safe that you can quickly access so that you can buy a tank full of gas and a trunk full of food. Despite the dollar crashing, there will always be people willing to take worthless pieces of paper, just as they have been trained to do all their lives.

For the unprepared yeah that will work but if its anything long term then they only are buying themselves a little time. No point in chancing going on during that time to the super markets and gas stations if its going to be anything like black Friday...people get killed that way, and you put a dash of total collapse and panic in there, well.....

[UneasyRider]

Originally Posted by Big Bird

To what end?

The PM's retain their purchasing power. Let's say that you bought 1 ounce of gold at $300 an ounce and 2 years later you can sell it for $3,000 an ounce. Sounds great right? But what if another 2 years later you can sell it for $30,000 an ounce, even better right?

Now you may say what about the inflation rate during that time, the price of a banana and everything else went way up too. Well that would be the way that it works with inflation. But if you can still buy the same amount of bananas you maintained your purchasing power. If you kept your money in your pocket then your $300 would buy 1% of what the you could have bought if you bought the gold coin. That is a net loss of purchasing power of 99%. Not good.

But wait you might have put that $300 in the bank earning interest, hey it's insured by the FDIC, what interest rate would the bank have to pay you to turn your $300 into $30,000 in 4 years? Where is the bank going to invest their money in order to get the needed return plus profit to do this for you?

I will keep my PM's, you may have a better investment and choose to keep it, I don't.

[Big Bird]

Originally Posted by UneasyRider

The PM's retain their purchasing power. Let's say that you bought 1 ounce of gold at $300 an ounce and 2 years later you can sell it for $3,000 an ounce. Sounds great right? But what if another 2 years later you can sell it for $30,000 an ounce, even better right?

Now you may say what about the inflation rate during that time, the price of a banana and everything else went way up too. Well that would be the way that it works with inflation. But if you can still buy the same amount of bananas you maintained your purchasing power. If you kept your money in your pocket then your $300 would buy 1% of what the you could have bought if you bought the gold coin. That is a net loss of purchasing power of 99%. Not good.



But wait you might have put that $300 in the bank earning interest, hey it's insured by the FDIC, what interest rate would the bank have to pay you to turn your $300 into $30,000 in 4 years? Where is the bank going to invest their money in order to get the needed return plus profit to do this for you?

I will keep my PM's, you may have a better investment and choose to keep it, I don't.

In 1985 Gold went down in price over 50% in less than six months. It lost value. A lot of value. In a very short time frame. Will it happen again? Don't know. But its track record is a lot more volatility than is perceived for a "safe investment."

[UneasyRider]

Originally Posted by Big Bird

In 1985 Gold went down in price over 50% in less than six months. It lost value. A lot of value. In a very short time frame. Will it happen again? Don't know. But its track record is a lot more volatility than is perceived for a "safe investment."

Hey gold isn't for everybody, but it is for me.

[wjv]

Originally Posted by UneasyRider

Now you may say what about the inflation rate during that time, the price of a banana and everything else went way up too. Well that would be the way that it works with inflation. But if you can still buy the same amount of bananas you maintained your purchasing power.

[1 old 0311]

Originally Posted by Big Bird

In 1985 Gold went down in price over 50% in less than six months. It lost value. A lot of value. In a very short time frame. Will it happen again? Don't know. But its track record is a lot more volatility than is perceived for a "safe investment."

In 1985 Gold was also responding to it's VERY rapid rise. It took YEARS to get where it's at today.

[emt1581]

Something I was thinking about today and I figured I'd ask...

Does inflation exist with PM's? That is...if a suit cost one ounce of gold in 1900...should it still cost an ounce of gold today? Or do things get more expensive even if using PM's?

Furthermore, on an international level. Would the same suit cost the same ounce world-wide or would a suit be less and more depending on the location for some reason?

Thanks!

-Emt1581