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Old 10-15-2010, 22:33   #61
emt1581
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Originally Posted by SilverCity View Post
My dentist will accept gold and silver for dental work. Now if I could just find a doctor, a veterinarian, a car mechanic, grocer, etc.
Actually there was a guy on one of the forums I post on that was saying his vet DOES accept silver bullion.

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Old 10-16-2010, 05:34   #62
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Old 10-16-2010, 05:42   #63
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OK then...well I guess they Democrats really screwed the pooch this go-round because they really haven't done very well in terms of manipulating the markets.
I'm sure I have already said it, whether you want to listen or not. The free market cannot be held at bay for too long. What goes up must come down, bubbles burst; pick your cute little quip to explain it. The massive bubbles and busts we have been seeing for decades now is a direct result of trying to artificially push the markets and economy too high too fast without any firm foundation and the resulting correction.

This is why any market dip is usually referred to as a "correction." It went too high too fast due to whatever reason, and is now falling back in line with its true vaule.

The latest was caused by the sub-prime market explosion and resulting housing boom combined with lower than average interest rates and easy free money for anyone with a pen.

Doesn't matter how much anyone wants it to stay inflated, eventually artificially "robust" economies collapse back to reflect their fundamentals. The role of the Fed and every other financial agency is to reinflate the bubble as fast as possbile with low interest rates and stacks of devalued cash.
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Old 10-16-2010, 06:45   #64
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Originally Posted by VBG23 View Post
I'm sure I have already said it, whether you want to listen or not. The free market cannot be held at bay for too long. What goes up must come down, bubbles burst; pick your cute little quip to explain it. The massive bubbles and busts we have been seeing for decades now is a direct result of trying to artificially push the markets and economy too high too fast without any firm foundation and the resulting correction.

This is why any market dip is usually referred to as a "correction." It went too high too fast due to whatever reason, and is now falling back in line with its true vaule.

The latest was caused by the sub-prime market explosion and resulting housing boom combined with lower than average interest rates and easy free money for anyone with a pen.

Doesn't matter how much anyone wants it to stay inflated, eventually artificially "robust" economies collapse back to reflect their fundamentals. The role of the Fed and every other financial agency is to reinflate the bubble as fast as possbile with low interest rates and stacks of devalued cash.
Can't have it both ways. Either the government can control the markets or they can't. Your posts suggest they manipulate the markets every election cycle. That's every 2 years. So why would the markets sink at the end of the Clinton Presidency? Why would the markets suck during the ENTIRE Carter presidency? Why would FDR's third term STILL be mired in a Recession? Why would Ike's first term end in a Recession? If you say the markets corrected and the government couldn't do anything about it then you are by default admitting the the government isn't successful at controlling the markets...

I understand the relationship between a bubble and credit/money supply. But that's not the same thing as controlling markets. That's riding the wave. And if history is any guide it hasn't been done in any way shape or form to manipulate an election cycle. If you believe that I suggest you look at the current election cycle and PLEASE show me how the markets are working towards the Democrats benefit? How did the crash of the Tech Bubble in 2001 during the later part of the Clinton Administration benefit the Democrats and how come they couldn't manipulate it to their benefit?

Oh and BTW, nobody has yet addressed how a chart with a 110 year market history comparison validates the claim that Reagan's Executive Order signed in 1988 manipulates the stock market???? Which BTW pre-dates the whole CFR/Bilderberger nonsense...
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Old 10-16-2010, 07:20   #65
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It's interesting to see silver and gold go so high after all of the PM debates that have gone on here. We are going to tank some day soon and when we do those PM's will keep going up. FerFal said that people in his country sold gold at $4,000 thinking that they had made a killing, but the currency that they put their profits in just kept inflating to 100 to 1 type numbers.

Hang on to your PM's.
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Old 10-16-2010, 07:28   #66
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It's interesting to see silver and gold go so high after all of the PM debates that have gone on here. We are going to tank some day soon and when we do those PM's will keep going up. FerFal said that people in his country sold gold at $4,000 thinking that they had made a killing, but the currency that they put their profits in just kept inflating to 100 to 1 type numbers.

Hang on to your PM's.
The price of Gold has had almost no correlation with inflation for the last 32 years according to a study by Ibbotson. Take Gold's high point in 1985 at $850 an ounce and today it would have to be worth over $2,200 an ounce to just keep up with inflation. Forget the high point--take the average price of the 80's and the metal still hasn't kept pace with inflation Over the last three years the price of Gold has gone up dramatically. Yet inflation has been below 2% for most of that time.
The price of Gold is reasonably correlated with the value of the dollar on the world's currency markets. Since it seems clear that the current administration is going to pursue a weak dollar strategy to help prop up manufacturing its not unreasonable to use Gold as a hedge.
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Old 10-16-2010, 07:50   #67
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The price of Gold has had almost no correlation with inflation for the last 32 years according to a study by Ibbotson. Take Gold's high point in 1985 at $850 an ounce and today it would have to be worth over $2,200 an ounce to just keep up with inflation. Forget the high point--take the average price of the 80's and the metal still hasn't kept pace with inflation Over the last three years the price of Gold has gone up dramatically. Yet inflation has been below 2% for most of that time.
The price of Gold is reasonably correlated with the value of the dollar on the world's currency markets. Since it seems clear that the current administration is going to pursue a weak dollar strategy to help prop up manufacturing its not unreasonable to use Gold as a hedge.
If it did who cares. I am saying that getting out of PM's into inflating dollars is stupid IMHO, keep your PM's.
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Old 10-16-2010, 09:50   #68
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If it did who cares. I am saying that getting out of PM's into inflating dollars is stupid IMHO, keep your PM's.
To what end?
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Old 10-16-2010, 10:34   #69
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Originally Posted by bcvojak View Post
It is much easier if you have $500 or so stashed away in the safe that you can quickly access so that you can buy a tank full of gas and a trunk full of food. Despite the dollar crashing, there will always be people willing to take worthless pieces of paper, just as they have been trained to do all their lives.
For the unprepared yeah that will work but if its anything long term then they only are buying themselves a little time. No point in chancing going on during that time to the super markets and gas stations if its going to be anything like black Friday...people get killed that way, and you put a dash of total collapse and panic in there, well.....
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Old 10-16-2010, 11:29   #70
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To what end?
The PM's retain their purchasing power. Let's say that you bought 1 ounce of gold at $300 an ounce and 2 years later you can sell it for $3,000 an ounce. Sounds great right? But what if another 2 years later you can sell it for $30,000 an ounce, even better right?

Now you may say what about the inflation rate during that time, the price of a banana and everything else went way up too. Well that would be the way that it works with inflation. But if you can still buy the same amount of bananas you maintained your purchasing power. If you kept your money in your pocket then your $300 would buy 1% of what the you could have bought if you bought the gold coin. That is a net loss of purchasing power of 99%. Not good.

But wait you might have put that $300 in the bank earning interest, hey it's insured by the FDIC, what interest rate would the bank have to pay you to turn your $300 into $30,000 in 4 years? Where is the bank going to invest their money in order to get the needed return plus profit to do this for you?

I will keep my PM's, you may have a better investment and choose to keep it, I don't.
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Old 10-16-2010, 11:53   #71
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The PM's retain their purchasing power. Let's say that you bought 1 ounce of gold at $300 an ounce and 2 years later you can sell it for $3,000 an ounce. Sounds great right? But what if another 2 years later you can sell it for $30,000 an ounce, even better right?

Now you may say what about the inflation rate during that time, the price of a banana and everything else went way up too. Well that would be the way that it works with inflation. But if you can still buy the same amount of bananas you maintained your purchasing power. If you kept your money in your pocket then your $300 would buy 1% of what the you could have bought if you bought the gold coin. That is a net loss of purchasing power of 99%. Not good.



But wait you might have put that $300 in the bank earning interest, hey it's insured by the FDIC, what interest rate would the bank have to pay you to turn your $300 into $30,000 in 4 years? Where is the bank going to invest their money in order to get the needed return plus profit to do this for you?

I will keep my PM's, you may have a better investment and choose to keep it, I don't.
In 1985 Gold went down in price over 50% in less than six months. It lost value. A lot of value. In a very short time frame. Will it happen again? Don't know. But its track record is a lot more volatility than is perceived for a "safe investment."
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Old 10-16-2010, 13:01   #72
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In 1985 Gold went down in price over 50% in less than six months. It lost value. A lot of value. In a very short time frame. Will it happen again? Don't know. But its track record is a lot more volatility than is perceived for a "safe investment."
Hey gold isn't for everybody, but it is for me.
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Old 10-16-2010, 13:48   #73
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Now you may say what about the inflation rate during that time, the price of a banana and everything else went way up too. Well that would be the way that it works with inflation. But if you can still buy the same amount of bananas you maintained your purchasing power.
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Old 10-16-2010, 14:10   #74
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In 1985 Gold went down in price over 50% in less than six months. It lost value. A lot of value. In a very short time frame. Will it happen again? Don't know. But its track record is a lot more volatility than is perceived for a "safe investment."

In 1985 Gold was also responding to it's VERY rapid rise. It took YEARS to get where it's at today.
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Old 10-16-2010, 14:42   #75
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Something I was thinking about today and I figured I'd ask...

Does inflation exist with PM's? That is...if a suit cost one ounce of gold in 1900...should it still cost an ounce of gold today? Or do things get more expensive even if using PM's?

Furthermore, on an international level. Would the same suit cost the same ounce world-wide or would a suit be less and more depending on the location for some reason?

Thanks!

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Old 10-16-2010, 14:43   #76
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In 1985 Gold went down in price over 50% in less than six months. It lost value. A lot of value. In a very short time frame. Will it happen again? Don't know. But its track record is a lot more volatility than is perceived for a "safe investment."
I guess it's a potato-pototo type of thing but it doesn't seem like PM's ever lose value...it's just that what they are being compared to gains/loses value.

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Old 10-16-2010, 15:15   #77
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Can't have it both ways. Either the government can control the markets or they can't. Your posts suggest they manipulate the markets every election cycle. That's every 2 years. So why would the markets sink at the end of the Clinton Presidency? Why would the markets suck during the ENTIRE Carter presidency? Why would FDR's third term STILL be mired in a Recession? Why would Ike's first term end in a Recession? If you say the markets corrected and the government couldn't do anything about it then you are by default admitting the the government isn't successful at controlling the markets...

I understand the relationship between a bubble and credit/money supply. But that's not the same thing as controlling markets. That's riding the wave. And if history is any guide it hasn't been done in any way shape or form to manipulate an election cycle. If you believe that I suggest you look at the current election cycle and PLEASE show me how the markets are working towards the Democrats benefit? How did the crash of the Tech Bubble in 2001 during the later part of the Clinton Administration benefit the Democrats and how come they couldn't manipulate it to their benefit?

Oh and BTW, nobody has yet addressed how a chart with a 110 year market history comparison validates the claim that Reagan's Executive Order signed in 1988 manipulates the stock market???? Which BTW pre-dates the whole CFR/Bilderberger nonsense...
I never said it was solely Democrats, and I never said it was solely government. I expressly said it was both parties and a combination of private and government entities. And if you understand bubble and bust then you understand someone has to inflate the bubble and the bust is the natural reprecussion. Whatever party is in power tries to inflate the bubble and prolong the good times until it finally bursts and whatever party is in power has to deal with it.

Don't start throwing Bilderberger and Tri-lateral commission stuff at me because I never mentioned that. All you are trying to do is minimize my argument without providing facts by trying to link what I am saying to conspiracy theories.
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Old 10-16-2010, 15:24   #78
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The price of Gold has had almost no correlation with inflation for the last 32 years according to a study by Ibbotson. Take Gold's high point in 1985 at $850 an ounce and today it would have to be worth over $2,200 an ounce to just keep up with inflation. Forget the high point--take the average price of the 80's and the metal still hasn't kept pace with inflation Over the last three years the price of Gold has gone up dramatically. Yet inflation has been below 2% for most of that time.
The price of Gold is reasonably correlated with the value of the dollar on the world's currency markets.
How exactly do you reconcile those two statements? There is no correlation between inflation and gold, but gold is a good hedge against decline in the value of the dollar?

in·fla·tion
NOUN:

-The act of inflating or the state of being inflated.
-A persistent increase in the level of consumer prices or a persistent decline in the purchasing power of money, caused by an increase in available currency and credit beyond the proportion of available goods and services.

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Since it seems clear that the current administration is going to pursue a weak dollar strategy to help prop up manufacturing its not unreasonable to use Gold as a hedge.
I actually agre 100% with you, but this statement seems contrary to your other arguments so I am a bit confused. A decline in the value of the dollar is a major cause of inflation. So either gold is a good hedge against inflation or it is not.
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Old 10-16-2010, 16:30   #79
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I really must laugh when I read stories of people pouring tons of investment money into gold and silver, which by the way, are intrinsically worthless. Silver has some uses but gold has very few. It is difficult and expensive to mine, process, and extracting the gold produces tons of toxic waste.

It is artificial demand that makes the value, just like diamonds whose value is tightly controlled by one major cartel (Debeers).

You can't eat gold or silver and if there was no more economy I certainly wouldn't accept it as payment. The new currency of a devastated economy will be ammunition, food, water, weapons, antibiotics, or barter skills like blacksmithing, dentistry, medicine, etc.

You lawyers out there are screwed! So keep buying that precious metal and I'll keep buying some lead.
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Old 10-16-2010, 16:56   #80
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I really must laugh when I read stories of people pouring tons of investment money into gold and silver, which by the way, are intrinsically worthless. Silver has some uses but gold has very few. It is difficult and expensive to mine, process, and extracting the gold produces tons of toxic waste.

It is artificial demand that makes the value, just like diamonds whose value is tightly controlled by one major cartel (Debeers).

You can't eat gold or silver and if there was no more economy I certainly wouldn't accept it as payment. The new currency of a devastated economy will be ammunition, food, water, weapons, antibiotics, or barter skills like blacksmithing, dentistry, medicine, etc.

You lawyers out there are screwed! So keep buying that precious metal and I'll keep buying some lead.
Like any investment we can judge it by the results when all is said and done.
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