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Old 12-26-2010, 12:38   #51
_The_Shadow
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XDMikey, What bullet are you going to be using as everything is relevent! Note the quoted GPE427 is using a 4.6" & 6" barrels in the testing. Those plated bullets can have very thin plating and if driven beyond what it can take it will sheer off, others complain of keyholing. The only plated bullets I've used were Speer Gold Dots.

I used the following data for a 200 XTP seated to 1.260" CCI 300 Remington Nickel brass...Use with caution as it is slightly above the recomended data for 200FMJ's and the XTP's are longer in total length.

200gr Hornady XTP 8.0grs. PowerPistol 1170 fps – 1200 fps Tested 1006
200gr Hornady XTP 8.0grs. PowerPistol 1080 fps – 1127 fps Tested Glock 29

These functioned well and preformed well from these guns set up with Wolff 22lb Recoil spring in the S&W and Wolff 21lb springs and noncaptured rod w the G-29.
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Old 04-12-2011, 22:57   #52
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10MM 180 grain Truncated Cone Flat Point

I just received my 10mm 180 grain truncated cone flat point hard cast bullets.
Ill be using a KKM 4.75" barrel with a g29 and 23# spring.
Im looking for an accurate load for target/hunting without going close to nuclear. Any BlueDot recipies that you'all have been using or advice on hard cast loads with Blue Dot? I'm new to cast reloading. Am I alright just using FMJ info minus 10% and working my way up?

Starline brass
CCI 300 primers
180 grain TC HardCast

P.S. I have 800X for hot loads, Just looking for fun/accurate loads at the range or smaller game hunting with BD.
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Old 04-13-2011, 08:21   #53
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I just wanted to post these two loads here, as they are my favorites so far with Blue Dot.

Perfect Target Load:
-Used brass
-CCI 300 primers
-Blue Dot 10.3-10.4gr
-180gr FMJ (I used local Magnus 180gr FMJ-TC)
-Exceptional accuracy, nice Goldilocks load, not too hot, not too cold.

My carry load:
-Once-fired brass (new would be better)
-CCI 300 primers
-Blue Dot 12.9gr
-Hornady 155gr XTP
-Awesome load, incredibly accurate, nice and hot, serious BD flash and bang. Maybe not the best for nighttime use, but I'd sure run like hell if I saw a 3 foot fireball coming at me!!!

Please be careful with these loads, especially the second one. Start lower, be safe.
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Old 04-13-2011, 10:11   #54
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Back in the day when I carried a 4" 686, I loved those fireballs, bigger the better, I figured the same thing, if I missed the BG would die of heart failure...until I fired one in the night, I couldn't see for a week.

Nowadays...low flash is one of my top criteria for a carry load.
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Old 04-13-2011, 13:14   #55
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I don't think they are really that bad. The first time I tested that load it was actually getting dark so I saved a few to shoot when it was really dark. It was impressive, but not too bad on my eyes. I was still able to reacquire my target. And truthfully, I did that test way out in the woods, where it's REALLY dark, so that's worst case scenario. If I ever have to use my pistol in the dark, it will likely be around a city where there will be some kind of lights making the situation somewhat better. This is also my backpacking bear defense pistol, but for that I will DEFINITELY carry some low flash loads. Some of the darkest nights I've ever experienced were on backpacking trips (Grand Tetons, Wind River Range, etc.).
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Old 04-14-2011, 14:22   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g29guy View Post
I just received my 10mm 180 grain truncated cone flat point hard cast bullets.
Ill be using a KKM 4.75" barrel with a g29 and 23# spring.
Im looking for an accurate load for target/hunting without going close to nuclear. Any BlueDot recipies that you'all have been using or advice on hard cast loads with Blue Dot? I'm new to cast reloading. Am I alright just using FMJ info minus 10% and working my way up?

Starline brass
CCI 300 primers
180 grain TC HardCast

P.S. I have 800X for hot loads, Just looking for fun/accurate loads at the range or smaller game hunting with BD.
So far I'm reading that 9.0 grains of BD puts 180 grain Hard Cast at about 1050 fps and is a great plinking/target load that isn't rough on brass. I know I could go alot higher but My original post was for a target/hunting load. Ill be experimenting with higher velocities using 800x.

Last edited by g29guy; 04-14-2011 at 14:25.. Reason: typo
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Old 04-14-2011, 14:31   #57
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G29

Not Blue Dot...

I've used a Missouri Bullet or similar 180 TC with 9.0 grains of AA7, it's my standard "plinking load" for a 10mm, 1911 Commander, I've had good luck with it and used it many years ago with a 1006. I'm guessing it's running about 950-1000 fps or so. You can take up from there if you want, that load is inexpensive, easy on brass, gun and me.

Without re-reading the posts...I'm assuming you have an after market barrel for shooting lead in your Glock?
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Old 04-14-2011, 15:04   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jitterbug View Post
G29

Not Blue Dot...



Without re-reading the posts...I'm assuming you have an after market barrel for shooting lead in your Glock?
Yes, Its a 4.75" KKM I'm using with a g29.
Alliant powder chart only shows a speer GDHP with 11 grains BD as max load at 1295fps so naturally my thought process was to go 10% less to start at which is 10.1 grains and 10% less for lead which would put me at 9.09 grains.
(Unless Hard cast doesn't need to be de-rated 10%? I'm not sure if that is just for soft lead. Any feed back would be appreciated.)
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Old 04-14-2011, 15:15   #59
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My Lyman 49th has...

Two different Blue Dot loads for a 175 grain cast bullet.

9.3 -- 10.4 grains @ 1.253" OAL 1175 -1275 fps.
9.0 -- 10.4 grains @ 1.260" OAL 1100-1245 fps.
CCI-300

Slight differences in the two bullets and I do believe hardcast due to the published velocity.

Hope that helps.
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Old 04-14-2011, 15:23   #60
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Deleted.

Last edited by Taterhead; 04-14-2011 at 15:56.. Reason: Off topic for Alliant thread
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Old 04-14-2011, 15:35   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jitterbug View Post
My Lyman 49th has...

Two different Blue Dot loads for a 175 grain cast bullet.

9.3 -- 10.4 grains @ 1.253" OAL 1175 -1275 fps.
9.0 -- 10.4 grains @ 1.260" OAL 1100-1245 fps.
CCI-300

Slight differences in the two bullets and I do believe hardcast due to the published velocity.

Hope that helps.
Thanks jitterbug,

I think starting at 9.0 and working up is the way to go. I will load a bunch of ammo this week. My father in law invited me to go shooting Monday as we both have the day off.. Ill try and get results asap.
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Old 04-14-2011, 19:31   #62
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G29guy, you shouldn't have any problems with the 10.4 grains Blue Dot under the 175 grain cast bullets, that is my target load from my S&W1006 1220-1235 fps and Glock 29 about 1075-1100 fps. Been shooting that load since 1990...

Just be aware, be sure you are not getting any leading especially in a factory Glock barrel. I cast my own 175 gr alloy 0.401" bullets and the Zambini lube works well to prevent leading for me. I have shot some 156 gr alloy at 1400 fps with ever so slight streaks.
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Old 04-19-2011, 00:04   #63
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10MM 180 grain Truncated Cone Flat Point test results

Went to the range today. I was able to work up 9.0-9.8 grains of Blue Dot on the press. I wanted to go further but ran out of time. Ill continue on up later.

No signs of any stress or leading out of my KKM 4.75" barrel, 23# recoil spring. No failures either.
Recoil jumped at the 9.8 load but brass and accuracy were great.
Definitely a loud flashy dirty powder, but great to get turned heads at the range(especially out of a 29, big bang in a small package)

I just wish I could get more published data for hard cast ammo.

CCI 300 primers
New Starline brass
180 grain Truncated Cone Flat HardCast bullets
1.256 OAL
9.0-9.8 Blue Dot

Thanks For all your feedback and sugestions

Last edited by g29guy; 04-19-2011 at 14:19.. Reason: misleading info
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:07   #64
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I've found it's always best to START at the lowest published data or very close to it after finding at least two sources of published data by what I consider to be reputable sources, bullet manufacturer, powder manufacturer or Lyman.

I think Lee publishes data, but I'm not familiar with it.

Over the past weekend I was at Sportsman's Warehouse and they had those One load/One Book manuals for about $8.00 each. I'm thinking it might be a good idea to pick one up for each caliber I load, they're only about $8.00 each and can be found at Midway. And I ALWAYS get two sources, not just one.

So I STRONGLY suggest confirmation of what you find in any manual, the data is constantly being updated and typo's do happen. Often before starting a load, I'll have three or more published sources...then get confirmation and remarks from a reloading forum.

g29, I've had good luck with AA7 in 10mm, my plinking load is 8.8 gr. - 9.0 of AA#7 under a 180 gr. Missouri Bullet 180 gr. TCBB. This is a mild load, I was trying to find the mildest load I could, attempting to duplicate a .45acp load. It's a good outdoor load, and due to the lube a bit smokey in doors, but no flash and it cleans up easily, not to mention accurate in my gun.

The Accurate Arms manual can be downloaded in PDF format from their website, as well as many others.

In the future I intend on trying out some AA#9 for 180 XTP's. AA#9 seems to give more velocity at the same pressure from what I've read.

As always what works in my gun may not work in yours so please verify and always use manufacturer START data.

Good luck!
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Old 04-19-2011, 14:17   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jitterbug View Post
I've found it's always best to START at the lowest published data or very close to it after finding at least two sources of published data by what I consider to be reputable sources, bullet manufacturer, powder manufacturer or Lyman.

I think Lee publishes data, but I'm not familiar with it.

Over the past weekend I was at Sportsman's Warehouse and they had those One load/One Book manuals for about $8.00 each. I'm thinking it might be a good idea to pick one up for each caliber I load, they're only about $8.00 each and can be found at Midway. And I ALWAYS get two sources, not just one.

So I STRONGLY suggest confirmation of what you find in any manual, the data is constantly being updated and typo's do happen. Often before starting a load, I'll have three or more published sources...then get confirmation and remarks from a reloading forum.

g29, I've had good luck with AA7 in 10mm, my plinking load is 8.8 gr. - 9.0 of AA#7 under a 180 gr. Missouri Bullet 180 gr. TCBB. This is a mild load, I was trying to find the mildest load I could, attempting to duplicate a .45acp load. It's a good outdoor load, and due to the lube a bit smokey in doors, but no flash and it cleans up easily, not to mention accurate in my gun.

The Accurate Arms manual can be downloaded in PDF format from their website, as well as many others.

In the future I intend on trying out some AA#9 for 180 XTP's. AA#9 seems to give more velocity at the same pressure from what I've read.

As always what works in my gun may not work in yours so please verify and always use manufacturer START data.

Good luck!
I need to get me a caliber specific book too. I own a speer reloading book and borrow or copy info out of my fathers books as a precaution.
I agree on the starting levels of any caliber unless you are familiar with the load.
The trouble I'm having is finding several good sources of data on hardcast or lead. I might find a good source for a 180 grain bullet but then have to compare with a couple of 175 grain bullet loads.

I'm open to trying different powders. Next time I see AA#9 ill pick up a pound and see. I hand weigh all my loads so metering isn't a problem, but having several different recipes helps to keep range time fun and interesting.
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Old 04-25-2011, 19:18   #66
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I've been doing a lot of experimenting with my Glock 20SF and Blue Dot powder with 165 grain Golden Saber's.

Most Accurate Load.
10.4gr Blue Dot, glock factory barrel, New Starline brass, CCI 300 primers OAL, 1.250, 165 grain Golden Saber bullets.
(first three shots at 50' were in the same hole, and I mean the SAME hole)

Max load to date
12.0gr Blue Dot, everything else the same
Glock barrel, 1,285 fps
6" Lone Wolf barrel, 1,425 fps
Neither of these barrels are showing any extreme pressure signs. The brass is showing absolutely no increase in size mic'ing the base before and after each shot.

Gonna shoot a few hundred of these before I try going any higher.
Will work on 180 grain Golden Saber loads until I'm sure the 165gr Max load doesn't throw me any surprises.
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Old 05-01-2011, 21:21   #67
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Hey guys I am new to the site, and to reloading the 10mm. I have a G20sf and cant seem to hit a sweet spot! I am using 155gr. xtp,starline brass, cci 300, I've tried blue dot charges from 10.5 to 12.5gr. in 5 shot strings, also no crimp to enough to slightly deform the pill! still it wont group. it acts like it needs more powder! Any ideas?
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Old 05-01-2011, 21:35   #68
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Joey Welcome to the forum!
It may not be your handloads that are the problem...
Have you tried longer bullets like the 165gr or 180 gr to see if accuracy improves?

Also look at the "shooter wheel" to see if you are doing things you may be unaware of...http://airbornecombatengineer.typepa...for_ident.html

Also aim small and close to build your proficency...aiming at a smaller dot to fine tune your sight picture will help shot placement.
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Old 05-22-2011, 22:41   #69
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Just thought I'd add some new loads that I just made that I REALLY like. Joey, this first will help you, also see my post at the top of page 3 for a very accurate max Blue Dot/155 XTP load. All fired from my stock G29.

Awesome Blue Dot/155gr XTP load:
Federal brass
CCI 300
Hornady 155gr XTP
Blue Dot 12.0gr
COAL 1.260"

Awesome target load, medium recoil, low flash for BD, very well might be the most accurate load I've ever shot (or maybe I'm just getting better!).

Unique/180gr FMJ target loads

Fed. brass
CCI 300
Unique 7.0gr
Magnus 180gr FMJ-TC
COAL 1.260"

VERY accurate, nice shooting, low-mid recoil round

Also, for even softer rounds, use either 6.0 or 5.5gr of Unique, with the same recipe. These are all very accurate, nice shooting rounds. The 5.5gr load is like a mild .40S&W (this load can be a little smoky). I made these so my girlfriend could shoot without scaring the holy hell out of her, but I have a feeling that they will become regular range fodder. It seems I've gotten all the nitrous oxide out of my veins, and my quest for 10mm horsepower is subsiding. I'll still shoot the hot stuff AT LEAST 50% of the time, but I forgot how nice it was to just shoot some light, fun stuff, and focus on technique.

Last edited by 21Carrier; 05-22-2011 at 22:45..
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Old 05-27-2011, 17:51   #70
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Some Data for Share with everybody

Ladies and Gentlemen, thought I finally got around to purchasing a chronograph, thought I'd share some data... All 10mm shot in my Glock 20 W 22# recoil spring & 6 inch Wolf stainless barrel....

200 Grain Laser Cast lead hardcast with blue dot powder, Winchester WLR primer, average of 3 shots....

9.2 gr. bluedot- 1195 FPS
9.4 gr. bluedot- 1235 fps
9.6 gr. bluedot- 1265 fps FWIW I had been shooting for a long time 10 grains of blue dot (mcnett said to use that as a start with the 200 hardcasts he sold on here). I didn't even bother to chrono the 10 grainier, with these velocities I'm just sticking to 9.4 grains. I kinda think 10 grains might batter the gun, even though I never saw a sign of pressure when shooting it.

180 Grain Speer Gold Dot, 11 grain blue dot, CCI 350 primer- average 1390 FPS- my jaw dropped when I saw this. Holy mackerel, 1390 fps. Wowsers

180 Grain Hornady HAP bullets (same exact bullet as the xtp, but no serrations in hollow tip, made for bulk cheap purchase and target work).
10.4 grain bluedot, CCI 350 primer- average 1300 FPS. Makes excellent full power pinking load

FYI I shot these loads in starline, Remington UMC, and double tap brass. Did not make a noticeable difference in anything pressure or velocity wise

Last edited by OhioGlockMan; 05-28-2011 at 10:55.. Reason: Tried to separate everything, it still wont do it, not sure why
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Old 07-25-2011, 14:42   #71
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180gr Berry Plated on BlueDot

I ran an experiment With Blue Dot, trying to find a comfortable operating range on my G20 and G29sf.

Condition: 93F, about 150ft elevation above sea level

Toy elements: G20, G29sf, CCI primer 300, Blue dot, once fired Starline brass, Berry flat nose bullet 180gr, Chrono F1. Also chrono'd BVAC and Georgia Arms 165gr.

Experiment: 10.0gr, 10.2gr, 10.5gr, 10.8gr, BVAC, GArms each had 5 samples for each gun.

Chrono placed about 10ft out, no choice... had to get out of the roof area.

G20 ave result:
10.0 => 1070fps std8.6, 458 ft-lbs
10.2 => 1073fps std7.3, 460 ft-lbs
10.5 => 1098fps std6.6, 482 ft-lbs
10.8 => 1135fps std30.7, 515 ft-lbs

BVAC 180gr => 1056fps std 6.1, 445 ft-lbs
GArms 165gr => 1226fps std4.9, 551ft-lbs advertised 1250fps at muzzle.

G29sf ave result:
10.0 => 995fps std14.0, 395 ft-lbs
10.2 => 1005fps std15.0, 404 ft-lbs
10.5 => 1063fps std9.9, 452 ft-lbs
10.8 => 1076fps std10.6, 463 ft-lbs

A few conclusions
1. Speed loss from G20 stock barrel to G29sf stock barrel was around 60fps.
2. Powder weights for 180gr plated bullet from 10.0gr to 10.8gr are rather anemic. Extrapolate to 11.0gr, and perhaps 11.2gr should be the next experiment. That should make it good for target shooting, not stressing the gun too much.
3. Speed gain on G20 is still increasing at 10.8gr of BlueDot.
4. Standard deviation trend is tightening on G20 (with exception of one datapoint at 10.8gr) with higher powder weight.
5. G29sf generally results in wider standard deviation, probably shorter barrel causing less consistency.
6. GeorgiaArms has pretty good stuff at just over 40cents/round, for a factory round.

Note: G29sf had just a couple hundred rounds so far, can be considered "not fully broke-in" as yet. But including it for 11.0+ gr experiment is worth doing.

Last edited by ModGlock17; 07-25-2011 at 16:43..
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Old 07-25-2011, 15:02   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ModGlock17
;
Chrono placed about 10ft out, no choice... had to get out of the roof area.

G20 ave result:
10.0 => 1070fps std8.6, 458 ft-lbs
10.2 => 1073fps std7.3, 460 ft-lbs
10.5 => 1098fps std6.6, 482 ft-lbs
10.8 => 1135fps std30.7, 515 ft-lbs

BVAC 180gr => 1056fps std 6.1, 445 ft-lbs
GArms 165gr => 1226fps std4.9, 551ft-lbs advertised 1250fps at muzzle.

G29sf ave result:
10.0 => 995fps std14.0, 458 ft-lbs
10.2 => 1005fps std15.0, 460 ft-lbs
10.5 => 1063fps std9.9, 482 ft
Nice report. You may want to check your energy stats for the G29. I believe they should be:

364
404
452
463

Question: did you, by chance get these on paper? I have been trying to get the same bullet to remain stable at speeds above 1100, but I find inconsistent precision. Blue Dot @ 1025-1050 works great though.
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Old 07-25-2011, 15:04   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ModGlock17 View Post
I ran an experiment With Blue Dot, trying to find a comfortable operating range on my G20 and G29sf.

Condition: 93F, about 150ft elevation above sea level

Toy elements: G20, G29sf, CCI primer 300, Blue dot, once fired Starline brass, Berry flat nose bullet 180gr, Chrono F1. Also chrono'd BVAC and Georgia Arms 165gr.

Experiment: 10.0gr, 10.2gr, 10.5gr, 10.8gr, BVAC, GArms each had 5 samples for each gun.

Chrono placed about 10ft out, no choice... had to get out of the roof area.

G20 ave result:
10.0 => 1070fps std8.6, 458 ft-lbs
10.2 => 1073fps std7.3, 460 ft-lbs
10.5 => 1098fps std6.6, 482 ft-lbs
10.8 => 1135fps std30.7, 515 ft-lbs

BVAC 180gr => 1056fps std 6.1, 445 ft-lbs
GArms 165gr => 1226fps std4.9, 551ft-lbs advertised 1250fps at muzzle.

G29sf ave result:
10.0 => 995fps std14.0, 458 ft-lbs
10.2 => 1005fps std15.0, 460 ft-lbs
10.5 => 1063fps std9.9, 482 ft-lbs
10.8 => 1076fps std10.6, 515 ft-lbs

A few conclusions
1. Speed loss from G20 stock barrel to G29sf stock barrel was around 60fps.
2. Powder weights for 180gr plated bullet from 10.0gr to 10.8gr are rather anemic. Extrapolate to 11.0gr, and perhaps 11.2gr should be the next experiment. That should make it good for target shooting, not stressing the gun too much.
3. Speed gain on G20 is still increasing at 10.8gr of BlueDot.
4. Standard deviation trend is tightening on G20 (with exception of one datapoint at 10.8gr) with higher powder weight.
5. G29sf generally results in wider standard deviation, probably shorter barrel causing less consistency.
6. GeorgiaArms has pretty good stuff at just over 40cents/round, for a factory round.

Note: G29sf had just a couple hundred rounds so far, can be considered "not fully broke-in" as yet. But including it for 11.0+ gr experiment is worth doing.
+1 on the write up! Same guns, bullet weight, primers, brass, and powder that I use so this is especially helpful. I look forward to the results north of 10gr! 10.5 is my target round. Thanks again! Oh, COAL? I set mine at 1.255 as it seems to feed a bit better than 1.260.
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Old 07-25-2011, 16:42   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
Nice report. You may want to check your energy stats for the G29. I believe they should be:

364
404
452
463

Question: did you, by chance get these on paper? I have been trying to get the same bullet to remain stable at speeds above 1100, but I find inconsistent precision. Blue Dot @ 1025-1050 works great though.

You're right. Sorry about that. I was copy&paste to avoid retyping the units, then got in a hurry to pickup my little one.

I correct the main report now, in case people didn't see your correction. Thanks.

I wasn't trying hard to aim, more concerned about missing the chrono and where the brass lands so I can inspect them. But I did get them within a 4" circle at 10 yrds. Is that what you mean?

I did notice pretty good POI-POA for the 10.5gr group. But trying to keep data straight and limited by time, I did not pay enough attention to that.

Now the next group 11.2 should be the only group, so I can be more of a shooter and we will see how that goes. If accuracy falls apart, then I already decided to move back to 10.5 as my target weight.

Last edited by ModGlock17; 07-25-2011 at 16:51..
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Old 07-25-2011, 16:54   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRhino24 View Post
+1 on the write up! Same guns, bullet weight, primers, brass, and powder that I use so this is especially helpful. I look forward to the results north of 10gr! 10.5 is my target round. Thanks again! Oh, COAL? I set mine at 1.255 as it seems to feed a bit better than 1.260.
I do have a caliper somewhere, but not at hand. I basically eyeballed and kept the setup same or under BVAC/GArm's COAL. And made sure the test round(s) would load in dry firing.
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Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42