GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-29-2011, 17:52   #1
USAFE7
Retired USAF-SP
 
USAFE7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Alabama
Posts: 181
Ratting a bad one out......

There has been A LOT of accusations lately (by you know who...) of a officer KNOWING of fellow officers committing crimes involving "planting evidence, falsifying reports, bad shoots (murder: planting a gun to justify) and so on. My questions are pretty straight forward.....

(1) Would you allow any of the above to happen OR continue to happen if/when you found out what was going on?

(2) Are there any circumstances that might persuade you to overlook the above?

(3) Would you be able to face another day knowing you were able to stop the unlawful actions of a bad officer but allowed him/them to continue their illegal activities?

(4) While I'm sure most/all LEOs here would uphold the law are there ANY reasons you wouldn't?
__________________
1911 G22
USAFE7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 17:58   #2
Mayhem like Me
Semper Paratus
 
Mayhem like Me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,162
Blog Entries: 3
No x 4
__________________
How do you establish intent?
Well when a naked man is chasing a woman down an alley with a butcher knife and a hard on, I figure he's not collecting for the red cross...Inspector H. Callahan
Mayhem like Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 17:59   #3
Dragoon44
Lifetime Membership
Unfair Facist
 
Dragoon44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 24,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFE7 View Post
There has been A LOT of accusations lately (by you know who...) of a officer KNOWING of fellow officers committing crimes involving "planting evidence, falsifying reports, bad shoots (murder: planting a gun to justify) and so on. My questions are pretty straight forward.....

(1) Would you allow any of the above to happen OR continue to happen if/when you found out what was going on?

(2) Are there any circumstances that might persuade you to overlook the above?

(3) Would you be able to face another day knowing you were able to stop the unlawful actions of a bad officer but allowed him/them to continue their illegal activities?

(4) While I'm sure most/all LEOs here would uphold the law are there ANY reasons you wouldn't?
1. No

2. No

3. No

4. No
__________________
“Right is still right, even if nobody is doing it. And wrong is still wrong, even if everybody is doing it.”—Texas Ranger saying.
Dragoon44 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 18:05   #4
FiremanMike
Way too busy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,997
It's the *********s who cross the line consistently that make this job difficult for everyone else. I have no use for these people, and would absolutely turn in things I knew to be bad.
FiremanMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 18:10   #5
KiloBravo
Lifetime Newb
 
KiloBravo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,677
Jerk offs like the ones you mentioned OP are he exact reason why the hiring process takes so damn long for guys pike me who would actually do an honest and commendable job as a LEO. All of the things listed are pretty nasty crimes in my opinion, and I would drop a dime on anybody doing those things in a heartbeat, cop or not.
__________________
*Professional Babysitter*
KiloBravo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 19:02   #6
blueiron
Clown move, bro
 
blueiron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: On the corner of Gang and Ghetto
Posts: 13,206
I walked away from a DEA career over a fellow S/A stealing from a suspect.

Break a law of G-d or a serious law of Man and I would not tolerate it.

The only time I ever allowed any slack was for minor traffic offenses - and that privilege was extended to citizens as well.
__________________
Imported from the future in 1984. Returned to the past in 2007

Dear God, this is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. It's got to rank right up there with CALEA. -Pepper45
blueiron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 19:07   #7
USAFE7
Retired USAF-SP
 
USAFE7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Alabama
Posts: 181
I figured that "No" would be the overwhelming answer. Of course I'm sure there will be the "Well hell no they won't admit to it" but, what about the officer that admitted he knew and allowed this to continue, that "quit his job" rather than try to stop all the horrid illegal activities being committed by fellow officers? Just what type of person is he? Police work is a true calling for the "good" officers, so why would a "good" officer quit his calling rather than correct what he was called to do? I'm just looking for some insight from the LEOs that may have dealt with this on a personal or departmental level.
*edit to add*
I was a member of one of the 5 largest "Police" forces in the United States and can honestly say that we never covered for our fellow Airmen and NEVER expected to be covered for (other than being late for roll call )
__________________
1911 G22

Last edited by USAFE7; 05-29-2011 at 19:13..
USAFE7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 19:12   #8
msu_grad_121
BOOSH
 
msu_grad_121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NW Burbs
Posts: 2,553
Of course I wouldn't tolerate any of those things, but the accusations come from someone who is saying these things in an attempt to justify their preconceived notions regarding the other issue by demonstrating that they've "been there and done that." Personally, I don't buy any of it for a second.

Are there purely evil, rotten cops out there? Without a doubt, just as sure as there are rotten lawyers, doctors and garbage collectors. However, I can say without fear of contradiction that these people are in the extreme minority. The person you were referring to is (in my opinion) saying these things in order to justify their mercifully short "career" in LE without drawing any suspicion upon themselves.

But yeah, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to drop a dime on someone who did any of those things. I'm not here to lie for myself, let alone you.
__________________
The name on the left side of your chest represents who you work for. The name on the right side of your chest represents who raised you. Make them both proud.

Last edited by msu_grad_121; 05-29-2011 at 19:13..
msu_grad_121 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 19:31   #9
Rohniss
Senior Member
 
Rohniss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,743
No x4, and anyone who does is a worm.
__________________
Note: All of the above expressed opinions above are those of the poster. No representation is made that the above post construes legal advice or is to be considered as anything but the personal opinion of the poster. View at your own Peril.
Rohniss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 19:33   #10
Dragoon44
Lifetime Membership
Unfair Facist
 
Dragoon44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 24,162
No one hates bad cops more than other cops.

The problem arises with definitions. many of the posters on these forums equate "bad Cop" with any cop that does not do things "Their way". rather than those that actually violate the law or ethical standards.
__________________
“Right is still right, even if nobody is doing it. And wrong is still wrong, even if everybody is doing it.”—Texas Ranger saying.
Dragoon44 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 19:34   #11
rdrkt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Md
Posts: 356
I think he is just confusing his life with the movie Internal Affairs.
rdrkt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 19:41   #12
blueiron
Clown move, bro
 
blueiron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: On the corner of Gang and Ghetto
Posts: 13,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFE7 View Post
Of course I'm sure there will be the "Well hell no they won't admit to it" but, what about the officer that admitted he knew and allowed this to continue, that "quit his job" rather than try to stop all the horrid illegal activities being committed by fellow officers?

Considering that based on your above statement, it sounds like you are lumping me in with the corrupt and I take great offense at your statement, along with its rather overt inference.

You don't know what transpired in my instance, so I'll spell it out for you. I worked the largest indoor MJ grow operation [>20,000 plants] in the U.S. to that date - 1990 in Golden Valley, Arizona; with ancillary grow operations in Lancaster, California and Las Vegas Nevada. I saw a senior S/A stealing expensive vintage bottles of wine from the suspect's house and place them into his personal ruck. I also saw the same bottles at the hotel where we were staying. The senior S/A ignored my demands to return the property and I went to the Group Supervisor. They were both personal friends and neither did anything. I went to the ASAC and he elected to do nothing, siding with the GS. I stormed out of his office and went out to contemplate. I returned to work Monday morning and demanded to see the SAC. After telling him of my observations and my outrage, his statement was: "do what you have to do". Seeing that he and the command of the Phoenix Field Division refused to do anything, I tossed my credentials on the desk and quit.

Congressional Representatives and Senators didn't give excrement about it, nor did DOJ. Repeated letters did nothing. Executive Office didn't either - G.H.W. Bush got a certified letter and not squat was done.

If that makes me corrupt in your eyes, so be it. I suggest an Opthalmologist and college courses in Ethics and Logic before passing judgment on others.

By the way - How much dope did you take off the street?

Here's the background.

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-05-...marijuana-farm
__________________
Imported from the future in 1984. Returned to the past in 2007

Dear God, this is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. It's got to rank right up there with CALEA. -Pepper45
blueiron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 20:33   #13
USAFE7
Retired USAF-SP
 
USAFE7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Alabama
Posts: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiron View Post
Considering that based on your above statement, it sounds like you are lumping me in with the corrupt and I take great offense at your statement, along with its rather overt inference.

You don't know what transpired in my instance, so I'll spell it out for you. I worked the largest indoor MJ grow operation [>20,000 plants] in the U.S. to that date - 1990 in Golden Valley, Arizona; with ancillary grow operations in Lancaster, California and Las Vegas Nevada. I saw a senior S/A stealing expensive vintage bottles of wine from the suspect's house and place them into his personal ruck. I also saw the same bottles at the hotel where we were staying. The senior S/A ignored my demands to return the property and I went to the Group Supervisor. They were both personal friends and neither did anything. I went to the ASAC and he elected to do nothing, siding with the GS. I stormed out of his office and went out to contemplate. I returned to work Monday morning and demanded to see the SAC. After telling him of my observations and my outrage, his statement was: "do what you have to do". Seeing that he and the command of the Phoenix Field Division refused to do anything, I tossed my credentials on the desk and quit.

Congressional Representatives and Senators didn't give excrement about it, nor did DOJ. Repeated letters did nothing. Executive Office didn't either - G.H.W. Bush got a certified letter and not squat was done.

If that makes me corrupt in your eyes, so be it. I suggest an Opthalmologist and college courses in Ethics and Logic before passing judgment on others.

By the way - How much dope did you take off the street?

Here's the background.

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-05-...marijuana-farm
It has NOTHING to do with you. It has to do with another poster in the Oath Keeper thread.....it should be easy to figure out who it is.
*edit to add*
I'm pretty sure Dragoon44 knows who this thread is in reference to.
"By the way - How much dope did you take off the street?" Do insurgents count?
__________________
1911 G22

Last edited by USAFE7; 05-29-2011 at 20:44..
USAFE7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 21:00   #14
Rabbi
Lifetime Membership
The Bombdiggity
 
Rabbi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San AntonioTexas
Posts: 29,873


Not no, but hell no!

Besides all the moral issues and the " I am one of the good guys and that is what the good guys do..."

There is another issue. Without being "idealistic" or "holier than thou" we are a group of people committed to doing a job the best we can. Part of that job is actually being "the good guys" It makes the system work, it is the efficient way to go about it.

When someone isnt on the same page as everyone else. I.E. a buch of good guys doing the best they can with someone working outside that system, it makes the job harder for everone else. No one wants that around. It brings heat on everyone. It sows the seeds of distrust. It makes a hard job harder and while LEOs do deal with a lot of chicken crap stuff, there is always the threat of it turning into life or death. So this game is for keeps.

You need other people around you who are on the same page. Or as Dragoon said "No one hates bad cops more than other cops.
__________________
In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon

Last edited by Rabbi; 05-29-2011 at 21:01..
Rabbi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 21:03   #15
collim1
Shower Time!
 
collim1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 9,962
I wouldn't stand for it, not only cause its wrong but I would not want to be raked over the coals with the dirtbag because I knew and didn't do something about it.
collim1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 21:13   #16
Dragoon44
Lifetime Membership
Unfair Facist
 
Dragoon44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 24,162
Quote:
I'm pretty sure Dragoon44 knows who this thread is in reference to.
Yeah, Rhymes with taco.

__________________
“Right is still right, even if nobody is doing it. And wrong is still wrong, even if everybody is doing it.”—Texas Ranger saying.
Dragoon44 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 21:26   #17
ateamer
NRA4EVR
 
ateamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: In the hallway - it's on cuz!
Posts: 14,614
No all the way down. You are either 100% honest or you do not belong in this job. Period.
__________________
Firearms instructor/Glock armorer
Airplane pilot - Commercial/Instrument rating
49er Faithful
Know-it-all
ateamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 21:33   #18
rgregoryb
Sapere aude
 
rgregoryb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Republic of Alabama
Posts: 12,704


I worked special investigations for the Chief's Office, not IA (we had an IA unit to handle complaints) The investigations involved murder, Armored Car robbery and systematic corruption involving an entire precinct (sale of automatic weapons, drug protection and arson) so no I don't care for bad cops.
__________________
"I don't know why we are here, but I'm pretty sure that it is not in order to enjoy ourselves."
Ludwig Wittgenstein

"demography is destiny"
rgregoryb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 22:09   #19
collim1
Shower Time!
 
collim1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 9,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgregoryb View Post
I worked special investigations for the Chief's Office, not IA (we had an IA unit to handle complaints) The investigations involved murder, Armored Car robbery and systematic corruption involving an entire precinct (sale of automatic weapons, drug protection and arson) so no I don't care for bad cops.
Wow, that sounds like a rough gig.
collim1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 22:20   #20
msu_grad_121
BOOSH
 
msu_grad_121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NW Burbs
Posts: 2,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoon44 View Post
Yeah, Rhymes with taco.

Didn't see the thread lock coming, did you, "pops"?

Him and that Mr. Happy *** or whatever his name is are so stupid, I think they have me cancer!
__________________
The name on the left side of your chest represents who you work for. The name on the right side of your chest represents who raised you. Make them both proud.

Last edited by msu_grad_121; 05-29-2011 at 22:20..
msu_grad_121 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 22:31   #21
cowboywannabe
you savvy?
 
cowboywannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: on a planet near you
Posts: 20,547
come on...i mean hows a cop suppose to live off the piddly pay and pension they earn? whats a little skimming off the top from the badguys?

i mean, how can you steal money from somebody who stole the same money? if it wasnt theirs to began with you cant steal it from them can you?

besides, if all you need for felony possesion of marijuana is more than 1 ounce, why send in 2 pounds when you could divey that up for evidence planting on 5-6 locals who constanly complain about the cops.....
__________________
with Sarah Jane, Leela, Romana, Nyssa, and Tegan.

Facts are no match against enthusiasm and ignorance...
cowboywannabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 22:40   #22
jcsd2407
Senior Member
 
jcsd2407's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFE7 View Post
There has been A LOT of accusations lately (by you know who...) of a officer KNOWING of fellow officers committing crimes involving "planting evidence, falsifying reports, bad shoots (murder: planting a gun to justify) and so on. My questions are pretty straight forward.....

(1) Would you allow any of the above to happen OR continue to happen if/when you found out what was going on?

(2) Are there any circumstances that might persuade you to overlook the above?

(3) Would you be able to face another day knowing you were able to stop the unlawful actions of a bad officer but allowed him/them to continue their illegal activities?

(4) While I'm sure most/all LEOs here would uphold the law are there ANY reasons you wouldn't?
A flat-out, emphatic, NO.
__________________
_____________________________
www.officerresource.com
Husband, Father, Minister, Deputy w/G22 and G27
Romans 8:28-31
Sub Club #2407
jcsd2407 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 22:50   #23
SAR
CLM Number
Charter Lifetime Member
 
SAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: LA LA Land
Posts: 2,407
I wish it were that easy... There are black and white cases, which I am sure that everyone here would agree should be dealt with harshly. It's the gray area cases that are much harder. If you've never experienced it for yourself, you'd find it hard to understand. The bigger problem is that many members of management, in their zeal to make rank, never spent any appreciable time in the field to know what constitutes black, white and gray.

I knew an officer who was arrested for muder for hire. To me this was a no brainer. Likewise, I knew an officer who was arrested for murder. Again a no brainer. I've known several who were involved in the Rampart scandal and did prison time for running drugs, planting evidence, and a number of other crimes. But what about Rodney King? Anyone here (besides me) ever see the entire video? Anyone here besides me know what happened to the other officers in the video, aside from the ones who were tried and aquitted in court? Twenty years later, the legacy of Rodney King haunts me. How about you?
__________________
Death is lighter than a feather, while duty is heavier than a mountain.
SAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 22:52   #24
Hack
Gold Membership
Crazy CO
 
Hack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kansas, near the bison.
Posts: 22,958
Send a message via AIM to Hack Send a message via Yahoo to Hack
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboywannabe View Post
come on...i mean hows a cop suppose to live off the piddly pay and pension they earn? whats a little skimming off the top from the badguys?

i mean, how can you steal money from somebody who stole the same money? if it wasnt theirs to began with you cant steal it from them can you?

besides, if all you need for felony possesion of marijuana is more than 1 ounce, why send in 2 pounds when you could divey that up for evidence planting on 5-6 locals who constanly complain about the cops.....
This at least deserves a
__________________
Arming with truth defeats ignorance. Jesus said, "I Am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father but by me." John 14:6
"Opinions expressed in this article are those of the author
and do not necessarily represent the opinions of the Federal
Bureau of Prisons or the Department of Justice."
In God we trust, all others we monitor.
Hack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 23:01   #25
Hack
Gold Membership
Crazy CO
 
Hack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kansas, near the bison.
Posts: 22,958
Send a message via AIM to Hack Send a message via Yahoo to Hack
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAR View Post
Twenty years later, the legacy of Rodney King haunts me. How about you?
Often in some ways. Not necessarily directly concerning that case, however think about what we do for a living, or just about my career field. Corrections is automatically seen by some as something that would attract only the dullard who would be more than tempted to simply lay in blows to each inmate he encounters, regardless of the reason. The dullard thus drags his knuckles on the floor, and his fully muscled and looks like Brutus from Popeye cartoons, and always carries that billy in his strong hand ready to use it at the slightest provocation. And, we're equated with incidents like what happened concerning the Rodney King incident, and any other famous incident for that matter having to do with uses of force. After all the PO-PO is the Man and is ready to make you cry and bleed for being a bad boy.

This all from the perspectives I have heard from other people ignorant to what we actually do. I am fairly soft spoken, well mannered most of the time, and people have actually stated that they find it hard to believe that I do what I do for a living. When explained to them that it is not always about loud speech, physical uses of force and the like you sometimes still see a look of disbelief emanate from some of their faces.
__________________
Arming with truth defeats ignorance. Jesus said, "I Am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father but by me." John 14:6
"Opinions expressed in this article are those of the author
and do not necessarily represent the opinions of the Federal
Bureau of Prisons or the Department of Justice."
In God we trust, all others we monitor.
Hack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 16:17.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,096
349 Members
747 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42