Milwaukee Police Chief misses the issue

madcitycop · 06-03-2011, 15:59

http://www.officer.com/news/10279025...-carry-measure

Umm I don't think I've ever seen a documented incident anywhere that a permit holder suddenly decided that because he was legally able to have a weapon on him he was going to shoot at a cop. It seems he missed the point, I agree there should be training and a permit system to weed out the nut jobs. But not having a permit does not put an electrical field around your body so if you waistband a pistol you are rendered unconscious. I agree carrying a concealed weapon should be a felony. But 90% of the time dudes a felon anyways so he gets pinched for Felon in possession...

IndyGunFreak · 06-03-2011, 16:14

Blood will run in the streets!

Just like it did in Florida and Michigan and Iowa, and Arizona, and New Mexico, and.. well, everywhere else that has introduced a CCW law... Even though it's NEVER happened.

You can't argue emotion w/ facts, because they just get more emotional.

IGF

ICARRY2 · 06-05-2011, 21:14

They don't need to make ccw without a permit a felony. Just make possession by a prohibited possessor a felony (if it isn't already) with a minimum mandatory sentence of five years with a maximum of 20 years to be served consecutively with any other sentence.

No need to jerk around some guy with no criminal record and make them a felon like some other states. Go after the real criminals.

**janice6** · 06-05-2011, 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyGunFreak

Blood will run in the streets!

Just like it did in Florida and Michigan and Iowa, and Arizona, and New Mexico, and.. well, everywhere else that has introduced a CCW law... Even though it's NEVER happened.

You can't argue emotion w/ facts, because they just get more emotional.

IGF

Come on folks, you have an example of how unlocked guns cause crazy people and blood in the streets, right next door in Minnesota. Check how many cops we have killed.

Maroon.

IndyGunFreak · 06-05-2011, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by janice6

Come on folks, you have an example of how unlocked guns cause crazy people and blood in the streets, right next door in Minnesota. Check how many cops we have killed.

Maroon.

I forgot... Blood ran in the streets in Minnesota, but nowhere else..

IGF

kmb · 06-05-2011, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyGunFreak

I forgot... Blood ran in the streets in Minnesota, but nowhere else..

IGF

Hmmm...I must have been gone that day..

IndyGunFreak · 06-05-2011, 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmb

Hmmm...I must have been gone that day..

Dude, don't you ever read Violence Policy Center or Brady Campaign press releases?

They laid it all out for you..

IndyGunFreak · 06-06-2011, 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICARRY2

They don't need to make ccw without a permit a felony. Just make possession by a prohibited possessor a felony (if it isn't already) with a minimum mandatory sentence of five years with a maximum of 20 years to be served consecutively with any other sentence.

That would certainly do it... the problem is though.. this would be feel good legislation (like most "get tough on crime" legislation). Yeah, they could charge them, then as the plea bargain process went along, the charge would be dropped from "illegal possession" to some other minor felony/misdemeanor, and the point would be lost...

Then, you give them a 5yr sentence, typically they serve anywhere from 25-65 percent of the sentence they were given. So by the time it's over, you've probably barely added 1-2yrs in their sentence. If you stack that on top of a 5-10yr sentence for armed robbery, it's point gets lost.

Then you go to the other end of the spectrum, you make minimum mandatory sentences, no plea bargains, "zero tolerance" type laws... Then you get people getting caught up in a mess when they had no intention of really doing anything wrong (ie, a girl being charged as a drug dealer at school, because she had tylenol in her purse).

I wish I had an easy answer.

IGF

Gunnut 45/454 · 06-06-2011, 12:03

WI -we are talking about the state that jacks you up for actually carrying a firearm OC just because your within a 1000' of a school! Can't even step outside your door with one if your within 1000' of a school! And if you live in Madison there is no place you can carrry that your are not within 1000' of a school! And you actually expect them to get CC law passed! Good luck!

Schrag4 · 06-07-2011, 19:32

I must have missed something. In the article the chief cites 2 recent shootouts between police and "armed, reckless assailants" as a reason to restrict conceal carry permits. Isn't it reasonable to assume that they probably wouldn't have been able to obtain such permits anyway? IMO he definitely "misses the issue" as you say.

rfb45colt · 06-08-2011, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnut 45/454

WI -we are talking about the state that jacks you up for actually carrying a firearm OC just because your within a 1000' of a school! Can't even step outside your door with one if your within 1000' of a school! And if you live in Madison there is no place you can carrry that your are not within 1000' of a school! And you actually expect them to get CC law passed! Good luck!

https://www.facebook.com/notes/vicki...50212623123150

This will be announced tomorrow at a WI legislature's joint committee meeting scheduled for 12 noon, according to Darren LaSorte of the NRA, the NRA lobbyist who's been working to get CC in WI since 2001. It details a "compromise" CC bill that will have bi-partisan support and will easily pass the legislature. The votes just are not there for permitless "constitutionnal" carry at this time, but there's plenty of support for this.

Some details are:

there will be permits required with same background check with WI DOJ as required to buy handgun ($13)

must be WI resident and 21 or older (no non-res permits issued)

there will be training required, but just like in FL. No specific course or time-length required. Prior training is good, hunter safety is good, ex military is good, LE training is good... any "certified" firearm safety training will suffice.

NO effect on open carry, but to carry in 1,000' school zone, permit is required, either OC or CC, per federal law (WI cannot change fed law).

OC in vehicle WITHOUT permit (handguns only... laws remain the same for long guns) but permit is still required in 1,000' school zones.

No fingerprints.

Permit cost about $50 for 5 years (less upon renewal).

Database of permit holders available to LE ONLY, NO public access.

nothing on reciprocity mentioned here, but current shall-issue bill has reciprocity provisions, I assume they'll stay the same, which was WI will accept permit from any State (both res or non-res permits) that requires background check, except that will likely now require a minimum training standard also, just like WI residents must have.

Current bill also states WI residents must have WI permit.

Current bill also does not require photo on permit, but just like MN, permit must be accompanied by another "official" ID with a photo, like a DL, to be valid.

I assume the above items in current shall-issue bill will go unchanged because they were not specifically mentioned in "compromise". We'll know for sure tomorrow.

I started a new thread on this.

sourdough44 · 06-11-2011, 09:27

That will do for now, let's get it signed into law.

Darkangel1846 · 06-11-2011, 10:56

I'm sorry but that cop has a leftist agenda, and his remarks are just plain stupid!

vafish · 06-14-2011, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyGunFreak

I forgot... Blood ran in the streets in Minnesota, but nowhere else..

IGF

Blood can't run in the streets of Minnesota, it would freeze first.

Deaf Smith · 06-14-2011, 17:30

Vermont has NO CCW statute. You can pack openly or concealed with no stink'en permit. Same goes for Alaska.

And no 'blood in the streats'.

That Milwaukee Police Chief is just a wannabe tyrant.

Deaf

IndyGunFreak · 06-14-2011, 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deaf Smith

Vermont has NO CCW statute. You can pack openly or concealed with no stink'en permit. Same goes for Alaska.

And no 'blood in the streats'.

That Milwaukee Police Chief is just a wannabe tyrant.

Deaf

and Arizona, and in less than a month, Wyoming.

Indiana had a constitutional carry bill that was put out there, but it didn't get much traction. I guess w/ a lifetime CCW.. it really doesn't matter to me.

IGF

madcitycop · 06-14-2011, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyGunFreak

That would certainly do it... the problem is though.. this would be feel good legislation (like most "get tough on crime" legislation). Yeah, they could charge them, then as the plea bargain process went along, the charge would be dropped from "illegal possession" to some other minor felony/misdemeanor, and the point would be lost...

Then, you give them a 5yr sentence, typically they serve anywhere from 25-65 percent of the sentence they were given. So by the time it's over, you've probably barely added 1-2yrs in their sentence. If you stack that on top of a 5-10yr sentence for armed robbery, it's point gets lost.

Then you go to the other end of the spectrum, you make minimum mandatory sentences, no plea bargains, "zero tolerance" type laws... Then you get people getting caught up in a mess when they had no intention of really doing anything wrong (ie, a girl being charged as a drug dealer at school, because she had tylenol in her purse).

I wish I had an easy answer.

IGF

It already exists. In WI a felon in possession is normally pushed up to the US Attorneys Office and they will take and run with it and trust me they dont mess around. Put a guy away for 17 years for it.

rfb45colt · 06-14-2011, 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by madcitycop

It already exists. In WI a felon in possession is normally pushed up to the US Attorneys Office and they will take and run with it and trust me they dont mess around. Put a guy away for 17 years for it.

I testified before a fed grand jury on such a case. Felon had a loaded .44mag revolver (stolen gun too). He got 2 yrs for the gun, and 1yr for each round of ammo = 8 yrs. Prosecutor was our current A.G., Van Hollen.

John Rambo · 06-15-2011, 11:43

Why is it always some high ranking cop who speaks out against our second amendment. Don't they remember the days when they actually did things besides pushed paper and had to respect the constitution?

Deaf Smith · 06-15-2011, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vip18971

Why is it always some high ranking cop who speaks out against our second amendment. Don't they remember the days when they actually did things besides pushed paper and had to respect the constitution?

Most chiefs are appointed by the mayors. So they toe the line as to how the mayor views it least they get canned.

Deaf

JW1178 · 06-16-2011, 20:24

He is drawing for straws because he has nothing. He doesn't like CCW and so he will say and do anything to be against it.

Lockback · 06-17-2011, 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deaf Smith

Most chiefs are appointed by the mayors. So they toe the line as to how the mayor views it least they get canned.

Deaf

Precisely.
Most police chiefs are political hacks appointed by political hacks.
Talk to the cop in the street or county sheriffs if you want to know what's really going out there. And the vast majority are huge backers of Concealed Carry.