GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-21-2011, 22:20   #41
dnuggett
PRO 2A
 
dnuggett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: DFW TX
Posts: 2,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
There is a skill to scanning for trouble. The secret is, don't look and act like you have a secret. Watch what people in Condition White do. Do the same thing, only be in a heightened level of situational awareness.
Criminals very often make their mark based off the actions of their target. I wouldn't say that being balls out tactical is the right way to roll, but mimicking someone who is clueless isn't the right move either.

Walking upright, having a purpose to what you do and generally being confident and aware are all traits that can significantly decrease the chance of a need to defend yourself in the first place.

I understand the thread is about how not to be made, but purposely mimicking a person in condition white, where the only person who knows you have a clue what is going on around you, is you (mimic but be in a heightened level) is going a bit far in my opinion.
dnuggett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 00:25   #42
BailRecoveryAgent
Rude Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,066
Quote:
Originally Posted by SixkillerEnterprises View Post
Yeah, guess I should quit wearing my Colt t-shirt when I carry....especially since I carry a S&W.
Yes you should. No amount of training, range time, and situational awareness will be able to stop the hail of gunfire headed your direction if someone figures out its a Smith in your waist band while falsely advertising it as a Colt.
BailRecoveryAgent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 01:17   #43
crsuribe
10mm Auto
 
crsuribe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: OH
Posts: 1,744
Wait, so why is it so extremely wrong to not be perfectly "grey"? From reading this thread, it sounds like some sort of capital sin or something really really bad.

I'm 5'6, about 140lbs and I carry a G.20SF IWB 24/7. If I'm not at work, then I'm carrying. Now, it doesn't really print too terribly bad but if one of you hawk eyes saw me you would definitely know I'm carrying. But, why should I give a dang? 99.9% of the people out there do not notice and those who do, well, if it bothers you then feel free to buy me a pocket pistol or whatever kind of gear you consider I should have in order to conceal "properly" 'cause I sure as heck can't afford it and refuse to leave my home without my 'life insurance' just because some nosy stranger might feel uncomfortable around me. I don't live in TX or any state that punishes people for being 'made' and most people in this area are pretty gun friendly. Heck, even my wife's therapist talks about guns with us! So what's the big deal?

Anyway why did you arrest that guy Spade? What was he doing?
__________________
R.I.P William Michael Willard from Swamp Fox Gun Works
R.I.P Chris Kyle -
What a damn shame you're gone!!

*I love USA*
crsuribe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 02:44   #44
dnuggett
PRO 2A
 
dnuggett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: DFW TX
Posts: 2,346
-Pause thread-

Man from Ohio says he's not from a bad, gun unfriendly state like Texas.

-Unpause thread-
dnuggett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 03:55   #45
LongGoneDays
Misanthropical
 
LongGoneDays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 10,039
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnuggett View Post
-Pause thread-

Man from Ohio says he's not from a bad, gun unfriendly state like Texas.

-Unpause thread-

He'd be correct in some instances. Mainly the one he pointed out.
LongGoneDays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 04:10   #46
eracer
Where's my EBT?
 
eracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 6,722
Well DANG!

I wear BDU's because they are the most comfortable and useful pants for me.

I wear a Wilderness belt because it's a great belt.

I carry a clip knife in my right front pocket and a flashlight in a holder on my belt because I use them every day.

I wear whatever color shirt I feel like wearing that day. And if it happens to say something political or is gun-related? This is America.

And if you're a cop, and you see the outline of my gun in my pocket? I couldn't care less. I'm a responsible, law-abiding citizen of the State of Florida, and my right to dress the way I want while carrying a concealed weapon is protected.

I'll walk right past a cop, look him in the eye, and smile. He won't stop me, even if my apparel, attitude, and bulge in my pocket scream "WEAPON!" And if he does, it'll just be a waste of his time and mine.
__________________
Matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration; we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death. Life is a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves. And now...the weather! ---- Bill Hicks
eracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 06:37   #47
Sam Spade
Lifetime Membership
Senior Member
 
Sam Spade's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 21,270
Look, I really don't care what y'all wear or how you act.

The purpose of the thread was to address one of the fallacies of CCW: the whole "concealed means concealed" isn't really happening and it actually relies on people's inattention and not your concealment. If you don't care, fine. The thread's not for you, and you can keep doing what you're doing.

OTOH, if you think you might actually want or need to carry concealed, or ditch the target indicators that invite increased scrutiny of you in particular, then that's different, isn't it?
__________________
"To spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary." Pournelle
Sam Spade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 07:48   #48
bronc25
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hubert, NC
Posts: 48
I agree with doing whatever you can to make youself blend into the crowd. Where i live button up shop shirts are very popular and the will cover a large gun with no problem without drawing attention. But i think that it should continue over in everything you do, it doesn't help to blend in with your clothing when you go get in you truck with that big "protected by glock" sticker on you back window. Just my .02
bronc25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 08:09   #49
Hedo1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,270
"Piece Petting is an obvious give away that I notice most often. Also hiking up a loose belt. I've made a lot of ccw's that way.
__________________
Every Saint has a past...every Sinner a future.
Hedo1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 08:23   #50
RussP
Moderator
 
RussP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 44,659
Blog Entries: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by eracer View Post
Well DANG!...it'll just be a waste of his time and mine.
Well, then, this thread is not for you.

This thread is for those who do care about being recognized as carrying a firearm and want tips and instruction on how best to achieve the "gray profile" we're discussing.

Thanks for the input.
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

"Comment is free, but facts are sacred." C.P. Scott, 1921
RussP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 08:32   #51
69Charger
Senior Member
 
69Charger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tacoma Wa
Posts: 255
I open carry and you would be surprised how un noticed I am.
Really.
Age
Dress
Demeanor
ATTITUDE
And I would actually enjoy talking to folks about my open carry and our laws concerning it. Educate and take the fear out of it. Or at least thats the plan.
Dave
__________________
Its not what you have, or where you have it,
Its WHO you are, that counts.
Colt-Dan Wesson-Glock
Semper Fi
69Charger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 08:53   #52
bigleaf
Senior Member
 
bigleaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Nashville - Music City
Posts: 817
A Jehovah's Witness for Open Carry!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Charger View Post
I open carry and you would be surprised how un noticed I am.
Really.
Not really. You're noticed every time. Considered odd, too, I'll wager. And nobody missed that you had to scream ATTITUDE, either.

Great thread, Sam Spade. You've given it good thought, and it's well presented and quite helpful. Thanks.
__________________
That's all that tyranny is: it's not in a personality; it's a set of circumstances. It's being trapped with your enemy in a limited space– a country or a family– where the balance of power between you is unequal and the weaker one has no recourse.
bigleaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 08:58   #53
ThreadKiller
Socialism Sucks
 
ThreadKiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 1,398


In my case, the local Chief and his dept are known to have a certain "attitude" towards permit holders. I have dealt with some in the department who are downright hostile. (These dealings being online, not face to face.)

Some will condemn my position I'm sure, but I simply do not want to call attention to myself. It could well be that live and in person the few hotheads I've encountered online would conduct themselves professionally but I'm going to do what I can to minimize the odds of any kind of encounter.

My hair went steel blond some time ago, but I'll do my best to be "gray."
__________________
"Nannyism is fascism with training wheels." -- R. L. Root
ThreadKiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 09:16   #54
barstoolguru
texas proud
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: dallas, tx
Posts: 2,434
Send a message via ICQ to barstoolguru Send a message via Yahoo to barstoolguru
Very interesting, what you guys see as a game the common criminal does all the time. Some of my shady friends can spot undercover and off duty cops a mile away not to undercover cars. Sometimes avoidance seems to be a very good teacher also
barstoolguru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 09:22   #55
Triple7
Senior Member
 
Triple7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 542
Half the stuff mentioned in this thread is what I do when I carry my Iphone. I adjust it in my pocket, hold it when I run, check it to see if it's still there.
My gun, I could care less if you know I have one. But no.... tacticool pants are ngtg. I wear shorts, flip flops and a tshirt 99% of the time I'm not at work.
__________________
Cock the Glock and let 'em fly.

Gen 2 Glock 17
Gen 4 Glock 17
Triple7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 09:57   #56
RussP
Moderator
 
RussP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 44,659
Blog Entries: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Charger View Post
I open carry and you would be surprised how un noticed I am.
Really.
Age
Dress
Demeanor
ATTITUDE
And I would actually enjoy talking to folks about my open carry and our laws concerning it. Educate and take the fear out of it. Or at least thats the plan.
Dave
I understand what you're saying. I've had the same experience.

It may not be that you, we, are so much unnoticed as our age, dress, demeanor, and yes, ATTITUDE, desensitizes peoples' reactions to us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigleaf View Post
Not really. You're noticed every time. Considered odd, too, I'll wager. And nobody missed that you had to scream ATTITUDE, either.
Perhaps Dave should have posted:
Age
Dress
Demeanor
ATTITUDE

I agree. Attitude has a whole lot to do with how people perceive us. A big attitude, a small attitude, no attitude, people put their own spin on what the attitude you project means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigleaf View Post
Great thread, Sam Spade. You've given it good thought, and it's well presented and quite helpful. Thanks.
And, now let's get back to Sam's original topic.
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

"Comment is free, but facts are sacred." C.P. Scott, 1921
RussP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 09:58   #57
69Charger
Senior Member
 
69Charger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tacoma Wa
Posts: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigleaf View Post
Not really. You're noticed every time. Considered odd, too, I'll wager. And nobody missed that you had to scream ATTITUDE, either.

Great thread, Sam Spade. You've given it good thought, and it's well presented and quite helpful. Thanks.

You would have to walk in my shoes to understand my friend.
Dave

I did not mean to derail this thread.
Good thread to ponder on.
__________________
Its not what you have, or where you have it,
Its WHO you are, that counts.
Colt-Dan Wesson-Glock
Semper Fi

Last edited by 69Charger; 08-22-2011 at 10:01..
69Charger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 10:00   #58
redbaron007
Lifetime Membership
A Nice Prick!
 
redbaron007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 6,966
Great thread Sam Spade!

Interestingly you bring this up. This was a discussion with some of my LEO friends recently. They made a lot of the same points you did. However, one common theme came about from all of them; having to fondle your piece is generally the biggest give-a-way; either addressing it by placing your hand on it, moving it for comfort, checking to see if it is still there, making sure it's covered, etc. One of the LEO works part-time at a local theater (it does allow CCW) and he constantly picks up on the CCwr's most of the time.

I was chatting with him one Friday night while he was working and it was very apparent, after listening to him, who was most likely carrying and not. It was great insight.

My guesstimation would be 98% of the public wouldn’t be able to detect CCWrs; however, the other 2% would be the LEOs and BG scanning the area. After having a discussion with my LEO friends, my concern is the BG possibly identifying me; therefore, when I’m out, that is the perception I use to stay grey. It’s hard to not be identified by LEOs; some will be easier than others, however, I believe you can conceal beyond what a BG is looking at. Are there some who can still pick out a CCWr, yep. But I think that group is very small. The key is to look natural for the environment.

Situational awareness is keen too; especially to id the BGs.




red
__________________
TopGun *357sig* Club - #2632
The 10 Ring #00720

R.I.P. Cajunator® ~ R.I.P. JTull7
R.I.P. Mullah (aka El_Ron1) ~ R.I.P. GioaJack ~ R.I.P. Okie
redbaron007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 10:07   #59
RussP
Moderator
 
RussP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 44,659
Blog Entries: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreadKiller View Post
In my case, the local Chief and his dept are known to have a certain "attitude" towards permit holders. I have dealt with some in the department who are downright hostile. (These dealings being online, not face to face.)

Some will condemn my position I'm sure, but I simply do not want to call attention to myself. It could well be that live and in person the few hotheads I've encountered online would conduct themselves professionally but I'm going to do what I can to minimize the odds of any kind of encounter.

My hair went steel blond some time ago, but I'll do my best to be "gray."
Thanks, Threadkiller.

This thread is about how to achieve a "gray" presentation and maintain it.

The topic is not about how people feel about those of us who prefer to be unnoticed.

Any posts after this that are not on square topic will be deleted.

Again, the topic is how to achieve and maintain "Condition Gray".
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

"Comment is free, but facts are sacred." C.P. Scott, 1921
RussP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 10:08   #60
RussP
Moderator
 
RussP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 44,659
Blog Entries: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
There is a skill to scanning for trouble. The secret is, don't look and act like you have a secret. Watch what people in Condition White do. Do the same thing, only be in a heightened level of situational awareness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnuggett View Post
Criminals very often make their mark based off the actions of their target. I wouldn't say that being balls out tactical is the right way to roll, but mimicking someone who is clueless isn't the right move either.

Walking upright, having a purpose to what you do and generally being confident and aware are all traits that can significantly decrease the chance of a need to defend yourself in the first place.

I understand the thread is about how not to be made, but purposely mimicking a person in condition white, where the only person who knows you have a clue what is going on around you, is you (mimic but be in a heightened level) is going a bit far in my opinion.
I knew I didn't state that properly.

Thanks for the help.
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

"Comment is free, but facts are sacred." C.P. Scott, 1921
RussP is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:04.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 569
135 Members
434 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31