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Old 08-22-2011, 08:32   #51
69Charger
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I open carry and you would be surprised how un noticed I am.
Really.
Age
Dress
Demeanor
ATTITUDE
And I would actually enjoy talking to folks about my open carry and our laws concerning it. Educate and take the fear out of it. Or at least thats the plan.
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Old 08-22-2011, 08:53   #52
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Originally Posted by 69Charger View Post
I open carry and you would be surprised how un noticed I am.
Really.
Not really. You're noticed every time. Considered odd, too, I'll wager. And nobody missed that you had to scream ATTITUDE, either.

Great thread, Sam Spade. You've given it good thought, and it's well presented and quite helpful. Thanks.
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Old 08-22-2011, 08:58   #53
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In my case, the local Chief and his dept are known to have a certain "attitude" towards permit holders. I have dealt with some in the department who are downright hostile. (These dealings being online, not face to face.)

Some will condemn my position I'm sure, but I simply do not want to call attention to myself. It could well be that live and in person the few hotheads I've encountered online would conduct themselves professionally but I'm going to do what I can to minimize the odds of any kind of encounter.

My hair went steel blond some time ago, but I'll do my best to be "gray."
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:16   #54
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Very interesting, what you guys see as a game the common criminal does all the time. Some of my shady friends can spot undercover and off duty cops a mile away not to undercover cars. Sometimes avoidance seems to be a very good teacher also
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:22   #55
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Half the stuff mentioned in this thread is what I do when I carry my Iphone. I adjust it in my pocket, hold it when I run, check it to see if it's still there.
My gun, I could care less if you know I have one. But no.... tacticool pants are ngtg. I wear shorts, flip flops and a tshirt 99% of the time I'm not at work.
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:57   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Charger View Post
I open carry and you would be surprised how un noticed I am.
Really.
Age
Dress
Demeanor
ATTITUDE
And I would actually enjoy talking to folks about my open carry and our laws concerning it. Educate and take the fear out of it. Or at least thats the plan.
Dave
I understand what you're saying. I've had the same experience.

It may not be that you, we, are so much unnoticed as our age, dress, demeanor, and yes, ATTITUDE, desensitizes peoples' reactions to us.
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Originally Posted by bigleaf View Post
Not really. You're noticed every time. Considered odd, too, I'll wager. And nobody missed that you had to scream ATTITUDE, either.
Perhaps Dave should have posted:
Age
Dress
Demeanor
ATTITUDE

I agree. Attitude has a whole lot to do with how people perceive us. A big attitude, a small attitude, no attitude, people put their own spin on what the attitude you project means.
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Originally Posted by bigleaf View Post
Great thread, Sam Spade. You've given it good thought, and it's well presented and quite helpful. Thanks.
And, now let's get back to Sam's original topic.
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:58   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigleaf View Post
Not really. You're noticed every time. Considered odd, too, I'll wager. And nobody missed that you had to scream ATTITUDE, either.

Great thread, Sam Spade. You've given it good thought, and it's well presented and quite helpful. Thanks.

You would have to walk in my shoes to understand my friend.
Dave

I did not mean to derail this thread.
Good thread to ponder on.
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:00   #58
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Great thread Sam Spade!

Interestingly you bring this up. This was a discussion with some of my LEO friends recently. They made a lot of the same points you did. However, one common theme came about from all of them; having to fondle your piece is generally the biggest give-a-way; either addressing it by placing your hand on it, moving it for comfort, checking to see if it is still there, making sure it's covered, etc. One of the LEO works part-time at a local theater (it does allow CCW) and he constantly picks up on the CCwr's most of the time.

I was chatting with him one Friday night while he was working and it was very apparent, after listening to him, who was most likely carrying and not. It was great insight.

My guesstimation would be 98% of the public wouldn’t be able to detect CCWrs; however, the other 2% would be the LEOs and BG scanning the area. After having a discussion with my LEO friends, my concern is the BG possibly identifying me; therefore, when I’m out, that is the perception I use to stay grey. It’s hard to not be identified by LEOs; some will be easier than others, however, I believe you can conceal beyond what a BG is looking at. Are there some who can still pick out a CCWr, yep. But I think that group is very small. The key is to look natural for the environment.

Situational awareness is keen too; especially to id the BGs.




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Old 08-22-2011, 10:07   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreadKiller View Post
In my case, the local Chief and his dept are known to have a certain "attitude" towards permit holders. I have dealt with some in the department who are downright hostile. (These dealings being online, not face to face.)

Some will condemn my position I'm sure, but I simply do not want to call attention to myself. It could well be that live and in person the few hotheads I've encountered online would conduct themselves professionally but I'm going to do what I can to minimize the odds of any kind of encounter.

My hair went steel blond some time ago, but I'll do my best to be "gray."
Thanks, Threadkiller.

This thread is about how to achieve a "gray" presentation and maintain it.

The topic is not about how people feel about those of us who prefer to be unnoticed.

Any posts after this that are not on square topic will be deleted.

Again, the topic is how to achieve and maintain "Condition Gray".
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:08   #60
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There is a skill to scanning for trouble. The secret is, don't look and act like you have a secret. Watch what people in Condition White do. Do the same thing, only be in a heightened level of situational awareness.
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Originally Posted by dnuggett View Post
Criminals very often make their mark based off the actions of their target. I wouldn't say that being balls out tactical is the right way to roll, but mimicking someone who is clueless isn't the right move either.

Walking upright, having a purpose to what you do and generally being confident and aware are all traits that can significantly decrease the chance of a need to defend yourself in the first place.

I understand the thread is about how not to be made, but purposely mimicking a person in condition white, where the only person who knows you have a clue what is going on around you, is you (mimic but be in a heightened level) is going a bit far in my opinion.
I knew I didn't state that properly.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:09   #61
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Great thread! Personally, I carry everywhere its legal to do so. Probably 95%+ of the time I could care less if I'm made. However the other ~5% makes this thread totally worth the read. I've picked up a couple things i definitely do but never really noticed before.

That said, its certainly reliant on the people you are around as well. I spend much of my time around people who, frankly, don't know jack squat about guns, much less CCW. Only one has ever noticed the MTAC clips, and just shrugged it off.

Possibly it helps that I wear a shirt and tie every day and keep clean shaven and well-groomed.
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:34   #62
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Guess in the past I was too grey -

Have been the selected target for three attacks (2 carjackings and a mugging attempt). Only the first carjacking was a surprise, I was aware that I'd been targetted the two other times.

Now I adjust my appearance for the situation. It's more attitude and bearing than the clothes I'm wearing. That aloha shirt can say "tourist" or "he's packing" depending on the vibs you are putting out.

The fanny pack I sometimes carry is from a tree hugger company and is very much the norm where I live. I just added a holster and a key fob to make it easier to get open. The company that made the pack would probably panic if they knew their product could be used this way. As a result, it screams "tourist" rather than "gun".

It's all about the vibs you give off and works for me, ymmv.
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:46   #63
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I have a hard time fitting the "gray man" role, but not necessarily by choice. My tshirt collection consists of shirts from a few of my favorite metal bands, and Harley Davidson shirts. Where I have a hard time being the "gray man" comes from my size. I'm not usually the tallest man in the room, but I am usually the biggest, usually. If I'm in the gun store or the Harley shop, I won't typically get a second look from people, but when I go strolling through Chuck E Cheese with my kids in tow, I get a few stares from the soccer moms. I don't walk around with a smug look on my face or with a "Come at me Bro" attitude, but my size and how I look(shaved head, goatee but no tattoos or piercings) are usually enough to garner a few looks from people.

I'm polite and respectful to others when out and about, I hold doors for people of either sex, not because I'm carrying and want to look friendly so people don't suspect I'm carrying, but because its how I was raised. My behavior around other people is the same whether carrying or not. If a person has to act differently when carrying, you have to wonder why a gun would change a persons attitude and demeanor. Shouldn't we as adults be behaving in a respectful manner anyways?

Becoming "gray" or blending in so to speak, is more about how you act and carry yourself rather than whether or not your wearing Dockers and Polo shirts everywhere you go. Choosing proper gear, ie gun belt, holster, gun, iwb,owb, carry position on your body, are all things that we should take into consideration when wanting to be completely concealed, but that isn't where it ends.

Just my $.02, and as always ladies and gentlemen, YMMV. Carry on.
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Old 08-22-2011, 11:35   #64
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Originally Posted by BailRecoveryAgent View Post

Becoming "gray" or blending in so to speak, is more about how you act and carry yourself rather than whether or not your wearing Dockers and Polo shirts everywhere you go. Choosing proper gear, ie gun belt, holster, gun, iwb,owb, carry position on your body, are all things that we should take into consideration when wanting to be completely concealed, but that isn't where it ends.

Couldn't be said better.

Good thread Sam...........
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Old 08-22-2011, 11:38   #65
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I sure would like this thread "Pinned" at the top for reference. Good job, Sam Spade!!!

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Old 08-22-2011, 11:50   #66
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I sure would like this thread "Pinned" at the top for reference. Good job, Sam Spade!!!

nc19
Remind me when it starts drifting down toward the bottom of the page and that will happen.
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Old 08-22-2011, 12:42   #67
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Easy when I CCW I wear nothing that indicates gun or owner of such. Not that I care as someone knowing that I carry here in ID is no big deal as OC is legal. Signs mean Zero to me or the law.
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Old 08-22-2011, 13:25   #68
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I knew I didn't state that properly.

Thanks for the help.
I honestly can't tell if you are being facetious or not.
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Old 08-22-2011, 13:25   #69
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Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
Very interesting, what you guys see as a game the common criminal does all the time.


Who sir, said it was a "game"?
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Old 08-22-2011, 13:42   #70
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I can't legally carry at work, so I don't.

Winter carry is easy...summer, not so much. In the summer, I wear cargo shorts my wife bought somewhere (which is to say they're not tactical), and my LCP fits on one side and my wallet the other. I guarantee that no one knows I'm carrying. The trade-off is the slow draw...and the .380.
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Old 08-22-2011, 14:38   #71
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Quote:
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Who sir, said it was a "game"?

Quote from garweh: I always play a game when I am in public places such as malls. I look for predators. I look for those who may be CCWing. I look for plain-clothes LE. Amazing how much you actually "see" when you are looking for it!


Whoops dude: Personally I like to play the bad guy game. I assume the roll of a bad guy and as I enter and exit places and situations I take note of the people and their actions. From my bad guy standpoint I observe to see who is constantly and somewhat obviously scanning the room. Who sits facing exits and what not and say okay I would shoot them first. I then try not to do some of the things that my "marks" do that make them stand out to me.

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Old 08-22-2011, 14:40   #72
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I can't legally carry at work, so I don't.

Winter carry is easy...summer, not so much. In the summer, I wear cargo shorts my wife bought somewhere (which is to say they're not tactical), and my LCP fits on one side and my wallet the other. I guarantee that no one knows I'm carrying. The trade-off is the slow draw...and the .380.
you should try Thunderwear or Smartcarry. You'll still have the slow draw, but at least you can carry your 9mm (or w/e it is thats bigger than .380). Thunderwear works great for my G26 if i need deep concealment.
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Old 08-22-2011, 14:55   #73
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you should try Thunderwear or Smartcarry. You'll still have the slow draw, but at least you can carry your 9mm (or w/e it is thats bigger than .380). Thunderwear works great for my G26 if i need deep concealment.
Thanks for the suggestion, but none of my other carry pistolas would fit.

I used to use a Smart Carry when I carried a S&W 60, and it was great until I had to sit down. It might work better with a semi-auto.

I also own a Maxpedition Active Shooter bag, and upon occasion I use it, but talk about being obvious.
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Old 08-22-2011, 15:12   #74
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I carry in a belly band and it hides the gun very well.
great subject matter .........food for thought

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Old 08-22-2011, 15:14   #75
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I honestly can't tell if you are being facetious or not.
Very serious.

I did not state my position well. You pointed out the problem with what I said. When I am facetious, you will know it...
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