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Old 09-13-2011, 06:06   #26
nelamvr6
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Originally Posted by gwalchmai View Post
I really don't see religion as being in gummint. Can you expand on your thought a little?
You must be kidding!

Check out every single blue law anywhere in this country... they all mandate restrictions on Sunday. You think the choice of that day is coincidental?

If religion wasn't in government, why would we even be debating gay marriage? The only objections to gay marriage are based on religious beliefs.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:07   #27
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You have to admit. Politicans aren't the smartest bunch...but they sure are sly.

They will have you fighting over this for months or even years...and all the while they will rob your state blind.


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Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr View Post
God already did.

He made Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve!
Adam and Eve were I assume of the same race. Given this logic, the states eventually will try and define marriage as legal only between members of the same race....

Completely serious question: did Adam and Eve ever technically get married?
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:07   #28
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Fine. The same crowd of debauched abnormals lost even in krazifornia. Let them spend their money in NC. It's leave them less to spend in support of left-wing liberal demokrats in 2012.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:07   #29
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Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr View Post
God already did.

He made Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve!
So who exactly did Adam bang in order to continue the species?
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:08   #30
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Originally Posted by BlayGlock View Post
An interesting observation about this thread: both sides of the debate are making moral pronouncements whether they admit it or not.

That is all.

I am saying that it is immoral to restrict someone's rights based on their sexual orientation.

And I am saying that it is immoral for a religious zealot to attempt to force his/her beliefs on others.

Is that what you meant?
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:12   #31
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In my estimation, GT stock just went up >50%, based on feedback here.

To define an individual by what goes on in his/her bedroom is as ludicrous as being defined by skin color, eye color, height, weight, or ability to sing. And, for the government to withhold citizens' rights from those who have different leanings in sex, politics, or sports preference is just wrong on every level.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:21   #32
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Hopefully my state is smart enough not to get involved with stupid crap like this.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:23   #33
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Hopefully my state is smart enough not to get involved with stupid crap like this.
What stupid crap would that be?
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:27   #34
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Is this topic related to the OP being a purple pirate?
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:29   #35
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"[BIsn't there that thing called separation of religion and state?][/B]

Its not in any of this nation's founding documents and it never was.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:33   #36
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If the politicians were serious about protecting the sanctity of marriage, they'd propose a state constitutional amendment outlawing divorce. Pretty sure that's not going to happen.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:34   #37
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From the time I was very little, I have found a particular type of person attractive: female, blonde, pretty eyes, feminine, etc. I had crushes on my kindergarten teacher, Miss Fisher, and on Jenny L. in 1st grade, both of whom met this conventional standard. In other words, I know I've been straight for as long as I have memories of being alive. I'm wired to like pretty women.

Now, if someone tried to tell me to look at a guy and feel attraction, it simply would never, ever work. Call me wrong, beat me up, lock me in a room, whatever; you would never, ever be able to convince me that a man is sexually attractive. It's just not possible.

So, I figure, it is with gay people. It's not a choice; it's either genetic or conditioned very early in development (or some combination) .
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:37   #38
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I think this is gonna turn nasty in a hurry.
this.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:37   #39
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Originally Posted by Cmacc View Post
"[BIsn't there that thing called separation of religion and state?][/B]

Its not in any of this nation's founding documents and it never was.
That specific phrase is not found in the constitution, but the constitution does prohibit the establishment of an official religion.

In the First Amendment we find:

Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

The separation phrase was coined by Thomas Jefferson, one of the framers of the constitution, and the intent of the constitution's framers is clear, as it's spelled out in the first amendment.

No matter how much religious zealots would like to drag us back into ignorance, we will not have an official religion,and there WILL be a wall of separation between church and state.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:39   #40
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People say no one would choose to be gay. But homosexuality is nothing more than sinful behavior. No different than my lustful thoughts, greed, lying, cheating, stealing, etc. To say that no one would ever choose to do these things is simply ridiculous.

Where Christians go wrong is in thinking that someone who is homosexual is a bomb that might go off at any time and get "ickey" all over them. They are people, just like me, with a nature that tempts them to perversion of what is right.

The reason this becomes such a hot topic is that the gay lobby is moving to use government to sanction their perversion and force the rest of the society to celebrate it. I hide my perversions in the closet, admit them at appropriate times and strive every day to do better.

I treat gay persons just like I treat everyone else. I know some who are. If they are openly flaunting it and demanding that I celebrate their sin, then I say something in the same manner I would if someone admitted cheating on their taxes or screwing around on their wife. If they persist in their demands, I slowly choose to spend less time with them.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:40   #41
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Everybody should be able to sign a really bad contract and have the opportunity to lose half of what they own, up to and including future earnings.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:43   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nelamvr6 View Post
You must be kidding!
No, I am attempting to discuss the issue with you as an intelligent adult. Want to continue?

Quote:
Check out every single blue law anywhere in this country... they all mandate restrictions on Sunday. You think the choice of that day is coincidental?
OK, take a deep breath. Now, I don't have time to "Check out every single blue law anywhere in this country", so how about you specifying one or two instances in which government is making laws based on religion. Present your position clearly and unemotionally and let's discuss it.

Quote:
If religion wasn't in government, why would we even be debating gay marriage? The only objections to gay marriage are based on religious beliefs.
Marriage is regulated by the government in order to provide for the children of those marriages. Many people object to gay marriage because it doesn't promote childrearing. It is not solely for religious reasons.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:44   #43
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Originally Posted by nelamvr6 View Post
That specific phrase is not found in the constitution, but the constitution does prohibit the establishment of an official religion.

In the First Amendment we find:




The separation phrase was coined by Thomas Jefferson, one of the framers of the constitution, and the intent of the constitution's framers is clear, as it's spelled out in the first amendment.

No matter how much religious zealots would like to drag us back into ignorance, we will not have an official religion,and there WILL be a wall of separation between church and state.
Don't even bother.

Convincing the zealots that the Christian founders understood that no religion should be forced upon its citizens by the State, is like trying to convince the crippled that Benny Hinn can't really heal them.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:46   #44
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I have a transgender niece.......ever since she was a toddler (2 or 3 years old) she fought her mother when she tried to put a dress on her proclaiming "mommy, I'm a BOY, I don't want to wear a dress". I specifically remember her saying this a few times.

This was NOT her choice.......I truly believe that there is something chemical or biological in why she wants to be the opposite sex. I also support her, as does her mother. She loves her child no matter what gender she is.

I also agree that being gay is NOT a choice in most cases. It's NATURE....not NURTURE.

I have had a gay guy friend of mine say "do you think I wanted to be gay and have to go through life where society doesn't accept??....I was with a girl in HS and getting intimate with her made me SICK....physically sick".

So there you have it.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:46   #45
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Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr View Post
God already did.

He made Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve!

The United States was never a christian nation and will never be a christian nation. - Thomas Jefferson
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:12   #46
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Originally Posted by PurplePirate View Post
The NC House has decided to let voters decide next May as to whether or not they want to add a provision to the state constitution that defines marriage between one man and one woman.

I was just curious as to whether or not your state has a similar provision in your states constitution?

http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/129638638.html
Yes we did and yes it passed.
Too many Southern Baptists here to think that it wouldn't.
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:28   #47
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All the people here criing that it is against god, you need to remember some of those teachings you are criing about. Something like People in glass houses should not throw rocks maybe not exactly that but I know its says something about throw'n rocks.

Also I does not come out and say it but Your god gave people free will to choose so who are you to so somebody can not choose.

I think the dems. should just propose a ban on gay unions and attach a bann on everything Gun to it. Then all of the bible beaters could choose guns or gays.

And for all you christians Matthew 5:22 is a good place to start.
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:37   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nelamvr6 View Post
That specific phrase is not found in the constitution, but the constitution does prohibit the establishment of an official religion.

The separation phrase was coined by Thomas Jefferson, one of the framers of the constitution, and the intent of the constitution's framers is clear, as it's spelled out in the first amendment.

No matter how much religious zealots would like to drag us back into ignorance, we will not have an official religion,and there WILL be a wall of separation between church and state.
One point of clarification: TJ was not a framer of the Constitution. He wrote the Declaration of Independence, but was in France during the summer of 1787 when the Constitutional Convention met in Philadelphia.

As to church vs. state, one could argue that the framers were more concerned with the state co-opting religion for its political ends (as in the Church of England), than with religion (in a generic sense) influencing government. Hence, we have "In God We Trust" on our currency.

Note in the First Amendment the phrase "establishment of religion." "Establishment" was understood by the framers to refer to a state church, such as the Church of England (ie, the Establishment).
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:52   #49
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Originally Posted by ATL Peach Girl View Post
I have a transgender niece.......ever since she was a toddler (2 or 3 years old) she fought her mother when she tried to put a dress on her proclaiming "mommy, I'm a BOY, I don't want to wear a dress". I specifically remember her saying this a few times.

This was NOT her choice.......I truly believe that there is something chemical or biological in why she wants to be the opposite sex. I also support her, as does her mother. She loves her child no matter what gender she is.

I also agree that being gay is NOT a choice in most cases. It's NATURE....not NURTURE.

I have had a gay guy friend of mine say "do you think I wanted to be gay and have to go through life where society doesn't accept??....I was with a girl in HS and getting intimate with her made me SICK....physically sick".

So there you have it.
I agree..."born this way".
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Old 09-13-2011, 08:03   #50
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Originally Posted by morrismma View Post
All the people here criing that it is against god, you need to remember some of those teachings you are criing about. Something like People in glass houses should not throw rocks maybe not exactly that but I know its says something about throw'n rocks.

Also I does not come out and say it but Your god gave people free will to choose so who are you to so somebody can not choose.

I think the dems. should just propose a ban on gay unions and attach a bann on everything Gun to it. Then all of the bible beaters could choose guns or gays.

And for all you christians Matthew 5:22 is a good place to start.

So I guess Theology wasn't your strong suit.
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