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Old 10-11-2011, 10:10   #1
lethal tupperwa
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I got this email asking is national CCW a Trojan Horse?

Last week I told you some well-meaning, but in my opinion very misguided pro-gunners are working to pass a bill that could turn into a Trojan Horse for more gun control.

I was talking about H.R. 822, the so-called “National Reciprocity Act,” which could open the flood gates of gun control.

I’m calling it the National CCW Registration Act.

While the idea that all states should recognize a concealed weapons permit is sound public policy, the use of the anti-gun federal bureaucracy to implement it is simply foolish.

Can I count on you to take action RIGHT NOW? Rep. Lamar Smith is the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee that will hear H.R. 822, the National CCW Registration Act.

I need you to call House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith and make clear that you want to keep the government’s hands off your permit and that you are opposed to federal intrusion into the concealed weapons permit process.

Once the federal government is in the business of setting the standards for concealed carry permits, it’s only a matter of time before they start using that power to restrict our rights.

Now you may hear arguments that this bill doesn’t do that, and maybe that’s true... for now.

Even worse, once this bill starts moving, anyone can amend the bill with anything... and no legislation can bind a future Congress in any way.

That doesn’t count what Obamacrats in the Department of Justice might dream up as the “regulations” to carry out the legislative “intent.”

Gun owners have enough trouble with Republican-run Executive branches implementing the law improperly. Does anyone really think the Obama Administration is going to treat gun owners fairly?

I know many of you are frustrated that you can carry in some states but not others -- I’m frustrated, too.

I carry concealed every day, everywhere I go, and have worked to expand the ability of citizens to carry in dozens of states.

I believe I should be able to carry concealed -- without a permit -- in all 50 states. That’s what “bear arms” means. Believe me, that’s a long-term policy goal for the National Association for Gun Rights.

But mark my words, H.R. 822, the National CCW Registration Act, will become nothing more than a Trojan Horse for even more federal gun control.

I understand that many who support this bill sincerely just want their right to carry respected -- but cannot due to the fact that their state or another won’t do the right thing.

But the devil is truly in the details... and the details are where H.R. 822 gets sticky.

This bill isn’t just about the right to carry for self defense -- it’s a battle over the role of government and the ability to restrict our Second Amendment rights.

Once gun owners let the Obamacrats start mandating whether states recognize permit reciprocity, they will want to mandate what it takes to get and keep those permits.

We’re talking about:
More onerous standards to acquire a permit, so that only FBI agents can pass muster (look at New York’s permit system);
Higher fees;
More training requirements;
A demonstration of “Need” for a permit;
More frequent renewal periods;
Federally-mandated waiting periods;
A national database of all permit holders, accessible by Attorney General Eric Holder;
An extensive, federally-created list of Criminal Safezones, where only criminals will carry and where law-abiding gun owners are vulnerable;
The list of potential problems is endless.
I need you to call House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith at (202)225-4236 and make clear that you want to keep the government’s hands off your permit and that you oppose federal intrusion into the concealed weapons permit process.

I haven’t even mentioned that this legislation would shred the Constitutional Carry provisions that are on the books in Arizona, Alaska, Vermont and Wyoming.

It doesn’t stop with just concealed carry. They’ll co-opt the bill to expand the national Brady Registration Check system to block military veterans with PTSD or individuals with misdemeanor convictions from even OWNING firearms -- much less use them for self defense.

I don’t believe the intentions of the bill sponsors are intrinsically bad -- they’re just naive and misguided.

Many statists in Washington will co-opt H.R. 822 as part of their grab for more federal power and less individual liberty.

Even now, the statists in Congress are trying to adopt a National ID card, complete with biometric data that they’ve forced the states to conform to their mandated drivers license “standards.” The National Association for Gun Rights has been part of a group of liberty-minded organizations which have passed state legislation forbidding cooperation with a National ID card.

While many in the institutional gun control lobby will tell you this is a step forward for CCW permit holders, make no mistake, the National CCW Registration Act is a misguided attempt to protect our rights. It’s like asking the fox to guard the hen house.

They will use this bill as the foundation to create a federal database of CCW permit holders. And then they can link it everywhere the Feds have database connections -- state police, doctors and insurance companies under Obamacare, and Medicaid/Medicare.

I’m sorry, but I refuse to entrust my liberty and privacy to a “trust us, they won’t do that” approach to dealing with Obama, the gun-grabbers or frankly most politicians of either party in Washington.

I need you to make some noise, right now!

Here’s what you can do to help
I need you to call House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith at (202)225-4236 and make clear that you want to keep the government’s hands off your permit and you are opposed to federal intrusion into the concealed weapons permit process.
Once you’ve called Chairman Smith, please consider chipping in $15 or $20 to help the National Association for Gun Rights continue to fight the anti-gunners in Washington.
It’s imperative that we stop H.R. 822 -- the National CCW Registration Act -- before it gathers steam and support.

Liberal Republicans and so-called “conservative” Democrats are looking for an easy “pro-gun” vote to give them cover before the next election.

A Trojan Horse gun control bill like H.R. 822 is exactly the kind of legislation that will get support on both sides of the aisle in Washington D.C. And remember, the Democrat-controlled Senate has to pass it before it gets to Obama... so this bill will only get worse.

That’s why you and I have to make noise, now!

Please call House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith at (202)225-4236 and relay the message that gun owners oppose H.R. 822, the Trojan Horse gun control bill. Make clear that you want to keep the federal government’s hands off the state-run CCW permit system.

Thank you for joining me in this important fight against the National CCW Registration Act.

For Freedom,


Dudley Brown
Executive Director

P.S. Please call House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith at (202)225-4236 and make clear that you want to keep the government’s hands off your permit. Tell him you oppose federal intrusion into the concealed weapons permit process.

Once you’ve called Chairman Smith, please consider chipping in $15 or $20 to help the National Association for Gun Rights continue to fight the anti-gunners in Washington.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The National Association for Gun Rights is a nonprofit, nonpartisan, single-purpose citizens' organization dedicated to preserving and protecting the Constitutionally protected right-to-keep-and-bear-arms through an aggressive program designed to mobilize public opposition to anti-gun legislation. The National Association for Gun Rights' mailing address is P.O. 7002, Fredericksburg, VA 22404. They can be contacted toll-free at 1-877-405-4570. Its web address is www.NationalGunRights.org/

You can read our privacy policy here.

Not produced or e-mailed at taxpayer expense.

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To help the National Association for Gun Rights grow, please forward this to a friend.

To view this email as a web page, please click this link: view online.

Help fight gun control. Donate to the National Association for Gun Rights!
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:28   #2
HexHead
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Yeah, the NRA which supports HR 822 is going to sell us all out.
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:39   #3
lethal tupperwa
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You trust holder?
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:46   #4
hamster
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I support states rights, even when it isn't convenient for me. Sure in an ideal world I'd love a national CCW standard. I just would prefer the states to come to agreement amongst themselves without giving more regulatory power to the feds
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:16   #5
cowboy1964
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Yeah, ask the NRA why are they supporting this.

The 2nd Amendment isn't a "states rights" issue.

Last edited by cowboy1964; 10-11-2011 at 11:17..
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:01   #6
R4lf
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Think I'd rather do a bit of my own research before I trust what you are saying. It would be convienent to have a national CCW, but I dont think certain states (CA for one) would like that.
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Old 10-11-2011, 17:00   #7
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Think I'd rather do a bit of my own research before I trust what you are saying. It would be convienent to have a national CCW, but I dont think certain states (CA for one) would like that.
There is no national CCW on the table.

IIRC this is a bill to require states to recognise other state-issued CCW.
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Old 10-11-2011, 19:04   #8
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Notice every e-mail from The National Association for Gun Rights asks for money. Like GOA, that's all they actually seem to do.


Here's the The Myths and Facts of National Reciprocity Bill HR 822. Make up your own mind.


Anti-Gun Attacks on National Right-to-Carry Bill Continue

Friday, September 30, 2011

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=7117

As we reported last week, H.R. 822, the "National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011" has recently come under attack from some expected and unexpected quarters. The usual culprits-- i.e., the anti-gun media, like the New York Times and the Washington Post; anti-gun organizations, like the Brady Campaign; and New York City Mayor Bloomberg's Mayors Against Illegal Guns--are a given. Regrettably, though, even some so-called "pro-gun" organizations are attacking this critically important bill.

Introduced earlier this year by Congressmen Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.) and Heath Shuler (D-N.C.) and cosponsored by more than 240 of their colleagues, H.R. 822 would enable millions of permit holders to exercise their right to self-defense while traveling outside their home states.

There is currently only one remaining state (Illinois) that has no clear legal way for individuals to carry concealed firearms for self-defense. Forty states have permit systems that make it possible for any law-abiding person to obtain a permit, while most of the others have discretionary permit systems. (Vermont has never required a permit.)

H.R. 822 would mark a major step forward for gun owners' rights by significantly expanding where those permits are recognized. Dozens of states have passed Right-to-Carry laws over the past 25 years because the right to self-defense does not end when one leaves home. However, interstate recognition of those permits is not uniform and creates great confusion and potential problems for travelers. While many states have broad reciprocity, others have very restrictive reciprocity laws. Still others deny recognition completely.

H.R. 822 would solve this problem by requiring that lawfully issued carry permits be recognized, while protecting the ability of the various states to determine the areas where carrying is prohibited within their boundaries.

Opponents of the legislation claim that it tramples on each "states' rights." But states don't have rights, only powers. And while many anti-gun lawmakers who've long pushed national gun bans, national bans on private gun sales, national waiting periods and other federal restrictions have suddenly become born-again advocates of "states' rights" to oppose this bill, several provisions of the Constitution give Congress the authority to enact interstate carry. Congress also has the power to protect the rights of citizens, nationwide, under the 14th Amendment (please see related article from a recent Grassroots Alert).

It is important to note that, despite what a handful of self-proclaimed "pro-gun" activists say, the bill would not create a federal registration or licensing system, nor would it establish a minimum federal standard for the carry permit. Rather, it would require the states to recognize each others' carry permits, just as they recognize driver's licenses and carry permits held by armored car guards. Unfortunately, these self-proclaimed "gun rights" supporters, who have no active lobbying presence in Congress or any legislature, have an agenda that has very little to do with promoting the interests of gun owners. Here are the FACTS about a few of their claims:

Myth: H.R. 822 would involve the federal bureaucracy in setting standards for carry permits, resulting in "need" requirements, higher fees, waiting periods, national gun owner registration, or worse.

FACT: H.R. 822 doesn't require -- or even authorize -- any such action by any federal agency. In fact, since it would amend the Gun Control Act, it would fall under a limitation within that law that authorizes "only such rules and regulations as are necessary to carry out" the GCA's provisions. No federal rules or regulations would be needed to implement H.R. 822, which simply overrides certain state laws.

Myth: H.R. 822 would destroy permitless carry systems such as those in Arizona, Alaska, Vermont and Wyoming.

FACT: H.R. 822 would have absolutely no effect on how the permitless carry states' laws work within those states. For residents of Arizona, Alaska and Wyoming, where permits are not required but remain available under state law, H.R. 822 would make those permits valid in all states that issue permits to their own residents. Residents of Vermont, where no permits are issued or required, could obtain nonresident permits from other states to enjoy the benefits of H.R. 822.

Myth: If H.R. 822 moved through the legislative process, it would be subject to anti-gun amendments.

TRUTH: By this logic, neither NRA, nor any other pro-gun group, should ever promote any pro-gun reform legislation. But inaction isn't an option for those of us who want to make positive changes for gun owners. Instead, we know that by careful vote counting and strategic use of legislative procedure, anti-gun amendments can be avoided or defeated.

H.R. 822 is a good bill for gun owners. Don't listen to false and misleading accusations. Read the bill yourself and read our fact sheet to get the facts. Then, please contact your member of Congress and urge him or her to support the earliest possible consideration of H.R. 822 this year.
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:39   #9
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Yeah, the NRA which supports HR 822 is going to sell us all out.
Already happened.

NRA now supports the likes of Harry Reid. What does that tell you?
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Old 10-13-2011, 15:49   #10
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It tells me when Irelander and Hexhead don't have facts to argue about this bill, they present the myths. When the myths are refuted, they resort to name calling. That puts them in the same company of the anti-gun democrats and media. You have a valid arguement on the facts of the bill, let's hear it. But promoting an agenda to abandon our civil rights and the NRA is not in the best interests of gun-owners on Glocktalk.
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Old 10-13-2011, 18:19   #11
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Already happened.

NRA now supports the likes of Harry Reid. What does that tell you?
And Harry Reid supports the NRA and guns. What is wrong with that?
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Old 10-14-2011, 14:19   #12
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Do you really need me to state all the problems with Harry Reids politics?
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Old 10-14-2011, 14:23   #13
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Ok. I am sorry. I will try to read up on HR 822 and get the facts. I know enough to be dangerous but I do need to be more informed.
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Old 10-14-2011, 16:30   #14
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Do you really need me to state all the problems with Harry Reids politics?
Don't care about Harry Reids politics, so no I guess I don't need to know your opinion on his politics. What about my statement you dodged?

It's ok to dislike him, but what about the facts?
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:06   #15
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Yeah, the NRA which supports HR 822 is going to sell us all out.
They have done it before. Why can't you own a modern machine gun? Why can't I go down and buy an MP5 at my local gun store or perhaps an M4 for home defense? Why did we get FOPA and lose our rights?

Sorry but the NRA is no friend to me or other gun owners in my opinion.
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:07   #16
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Oh and why don't they just push for Constitutional carry across the USA? Why didn't they support the attacks on the Chicago handgun ban?
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Old 10-16-2011, 17:07   #17
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The gun grabbers do not need this legislation to promote/enact more gun control.

This logic is flawed and history does not support it. The brady bunch and friends pass gun control when they have the numbers and believe the consequences are minimal.

Simple as that.
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:53   #18
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They have done it before. Why can't you own a modern machine gun? Why can't I go down and buy an MP5 at my local gun store or perhaps an M4 for home defense? Why did we get FOPA and lose our rights?

Sorry but the NRA is no friend to me or other gun owners in my opinion.
I agree with that.
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Old 10-22-2011, 18:49   #19
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Decide for yourself. Two questions to ask:

1) Are you generally satisfied with concealed carry laws of your state?

2) Are you prepared to have those rights seriously restricted by the anti-gunners in power in Washington?
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Old 10-22-2011, 18:51   #20
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They have done it before. Why can't you own a modern machine gun? Why can't I go down and buy an MP5 at my local gun store or perhaps an M4 for home defense? Why did we get FOPA and lose our rights?

Sorry but the NRA is no friend to me or other gun owners in my opinion.

Bingo. In 1986 the Firearm Owners Protection Act (FOPA) was first neutered, then turned into a trojan to ban MGs.

This isn't a new trick.
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Old 10-22-2011, 18:53   #21
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Oh and why don't they just push for Constitutional carry across the USA? Why didn't they support the attacks on the Chicago handgun ban?
Bingo.

Guys, this goes back to the enforcing the laws already on the books.

The Second Amendment isn't a suggestion, it isn't just the law; it's the highest law of the land.

We don't need a bill authorizing the Constitution. We need to be getting rid of ones that abridge it.
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Old 10-22-2011, 19:44   #22
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There's been a lot of misguided, unfounded, and just plain incorrect information regarding H.R. 822 -- the "National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011."

The TRUTH About H.R. 822
Link to article:
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=7147
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Old 10-23-2011, 04:58   #23
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NRA = Anti-American and Anti-Gun laws and ideals.
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Old 10-23-2011, 05:09   #24
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The NRA????
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:13   #25
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NRA is not as interested in protecting the 2A as in protecting theirs and the gun industry profits.

I believe in 2A but I also believe in the "well regulated" part. And I don't want to introduce either the NJ or the AZ scenarios into my own state. No total prohibition and no permits for someone who just got off their anti-depressants. I much prefer having some ability to influence the law on my local level.
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