GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-08-2011, 11:29   #51
1gewehr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mid TN
Posts: 1,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Rambo View Post
[B][I]
Again, remember that the only gun control measures I support are those that work to proactively keep guns out of criminals' hands without infringing upon our rights.
Name ONE such law! The countries with the most severe gun control laws also have thriving black markets in firearms. Banning or restricting firearms has been shown to have an effect on crime; it goes up! Throughout history, there has never been a single instance of a gun control law leading to a reduction in crime.

As said above, if a person should not have a firearm, they should not be walking the streets. For everyone else, gun control is a joke. And when NICS denies a person based on their 'criminal past', 90% of the time it's a case of similar names, or mistakes in the record. And you do not consider that an 'infringement' on the rights of the person who is mistakenly denied? Shame on you!

Prior to 1968, in most states anybody could walk into the local hardware or gun store and walk out with any rifle, pistol, or shotgun the store had without ANY paperwork, background check, or questions except maybe "How many shells do you want with that". I challenge you to show how the many gun control laws passed since then have reduced crime.

Gun Control only controls the law-abiding citizen.
1gewehr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 06:44   #52
polyman305
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South FL
Posts: 70
Give me gun-control...in a sin free world. I'll be all for it then. But unfortunately THIS world isn't. Awww shucks. I don't think any person, organization, faction, company,etc has the RIGHT to place control onto me and not the same amount onto themselves. Control My gun, well then allow me to control yours the same. Because they are not prone to mistakes/misjudgments(as the past have proven oh so perfectly). Simple - in order to make a solid judgment call, you must exemplify ability to make accurate,consistent,sound,equal, and fair mode of judgment. CLEARLY MY Gov. has failed at those miserably quite often. So why should I consent to control based on their views?
No way...
polyman305 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 06:53   #53
eracer
Where's my EBT?
 
eracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 6,722
Too many nimrods these days buying guns. I shudder every time I read about some idiot ejecting a magazine and pulling a trigger, killing someone because they're ignorant of the basics.

As such, I support mandatory training programs. The regulation would clearly spell out that the training is to include basic gun handling and safety training only, and have very simple pass-fail qualification tests. The training should be codified, conducted by an organization like the NRA, and be a requirement to purchase a first gun.


Say what you want about freedom - with freedom comes responsibility, and a gun is a complex deadly weapon that demands training.
__________________
Matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration; we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death. Life is a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves. And now...the weather! ---- Bill Hicks
eracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 07:21   #54
TheJ
Lifetime Membership
NRA Life Member
 
TheJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: GA
Posts: 1,478
Blog Entries: 4
I think training is great and everyone should be trained but I don't beleive it should be legally required to exercise a fundamental right.

However, they should teach firearm safety in schools like we do fire safety, etc.
__________________
Jay

The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. -F. Scott Fitzgerald
TheJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 09:40   #55
Jerry
Moderator
 
Jerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 8,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1gewehr View Post
And when NICS denies a person based on their 'criminal past', 90% of the time it's a case of similar names, or mistakes in the record. And you do not consider that an 'infringement' on the rights of the person who is mistakenly denied? Shame on you!


I can personally attest to this. For some reason right after Katrina I started have a “HOLD” put on my purchases. They never call back! And the “three” day wait thing is a joke. If it happens on a Monday then it actually takes 4 days. Monday doesn’t count and you can’t picket up your firearm until Friday. If it happens on a weekend you have Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday you can pick up Thursday. If there is a holiday or holidays involved it can take longer than a week. Took me seven days once.

Go-ahead, try to find out what the problem is if you dare. I did! Here’s the progression. The final straw was... "Sorry, even if I had that information I couldn't tell you." Now what I can do is fill out a farm and give them my life history and submit fingerprints and they will give me a “SPECIAL NUMBER” so I can have the “PRIVILEGE” of an ”INSTANT” background check. Through no fault of my own I and many others also, have my/our right(s) ”SUSPENDED” “INFRINGED” through a system that is illegal in the first place.

I feel sorry to those that are “denied”. Their only choice is to give the Gummynet all the information it wants and pray they can get it cleared up. But the majority thinks NICS is the best thing since sliced bread and there is no infringement. The dubbing down of America has worked.
__________________
Jerry
BIG DAWG #4

Liberal: Someone who is so open-minded their brains have fallen out.
Guns are not dangerous, people are.

Last edited by Jerry; 12-09-2011 at 09:42..
Jerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 14:31   #56
polyman305
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South FL
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
I can personally attest to this. For some reason right after Katrina I started have a “HOLD” put on my purchases. They never call back! And the “three” day wait thing is a joke. If it happens on a Monday then it actually takes 4 days. Monday doesn’t count and you can’t picket up your firearm until Friday. If it happens on a weekend you have Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday you can pick up Thursday. If there is a holiday or holidays involved it can take longer than a week. Took me seven days once.

Go-ahead, try to find out what the problem is if you dare. I did! Here’s the progression. The final straw was... "Sorry, even if I had that information I couldn't tell you." Now what I can do is fill out a farm and give them my life history and submit fingerprints and they will give me a “SPECIAL NUMBER” so I can have the “PRIVILEGE” of an ”INSTANT” background check. Through no fault of my own I and many others also, have my/our right(s) ”SUSPENDED” “INFRINGED” through a system that is illegal in the first place.

I feel sorry to those that are “denied”. Their only choice is to give the Gummynet all the information it wants and pray they can get it cleared up. But the majority thinks NICS is the best thing since sliced bread and there is no infringement. The dubbing down of America has worked.

That happens to this Customs agent I know. This guy has to walk around with a damn paper incase he gets pulled over. And flash it with 15mins of explanation to buy a gun. By the way, he has a CWP. Yeah exactly, the give him to legal right to carry a gun, but not to buy one without having to wear his uniforn(full weapons rig) into the gun store for additionalsupport of proof...
All because his felon brother used his name.
polyman305 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 15:13   #57
Jerry
Moderator
 
Jerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 8,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by polyman305 View Post
That happens to this Customs agent I know. This guy has to walk around with a damn paper incase he gets pulled over. And flash it with 15mins of explanation to buy a gun. By the way, he has a CWP. Yeah exactly, the give him to legal right to carry a gun, but not to buy one without having to wear his uniforn(full weapons rig) into the gun store for additionalsupport of proof...
All because his felon brother used his name.


I’ve had a CCW/CHP for 15 years. The first time I had a “HOLD” was in 2006. I was purchasing a Glock 22 because I needed a SW 40 to qualify for a commission. Had a .45 ACP., .38 Special, 9 mm. I could have used but I couldn’t qualify with a .45 ACP at the time (can now) so I wanted the next best thing, SW 40. I had to borrow one to qualify with. Then I got to go back and pick up my 22. I’ve requalified for the commission every year since and requalify every 4 years for CCW. yet I still have a ”HOLD” every time I purchase a firearm. Trying to find out why is like trying to find out the combination to the safe a Fort Knocks.
__________________
Jerry
BIG DAWG #4

Liberal: Someone who is so open-minded their brains have fallen out.
Guns are not dangerous, people are.
Jerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 19:18   #58
WarCry
Senior Member
 
WarCry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL, on the banks of the Muddy River
Posts: 7,216
The federal restrictions on firearms essentially amount to barring felons from owning firearms, and restricting heavy weapons.

So, for those saying you want "Constitutional Carry" in the absolute purest sense, you have no problem with a 2-times convicted serial rapist carrying a gun, right? Because saying he can't? That's gun control. You realize this, yes? When comments are made like "I think every legal person should be allowed to carry however they want", you are already putting restrictions in place. Define "legal person", or more correctly, define how someone is NOT eligible. Welcome to the world of "reasonable gun control."


The federal government doesn't determine May Issue/Shall Issue/No Issue, either. For all of you screaming about the exact wording of the 2nd Amendment, you realize that - as it stands right now - this has NO BEARING on most gun control laws, yes? Most restrictions on things like permits, magazine capacity, open/concealed carry, these are all state-level or lower laws. The 2nd Amendment applies to the FEDERAL government.

So, which are you? Are you a 100% supporter of the 2nd Amendment? Or do you believe in states' rights? Because the two CAN BE mutually exclusive.
__________________
"If you have something to say, now would be a perfect time to keep it to yourself." --Col. Chester Phillips
"If you believe everything you read, better not read." --Japanese proverb
WarCry is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2011, 03:00   #59
polyman305
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South FL
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
I’ve had a CCW/CHP for 15 years. The first time I had a “HOLD” was in 2006. I was purchasing a Glock 22 because I needed a SW 40 to qualify for a commission. Had a .45 ACP., .38 Special, 9 mm. I could have used but I couldn’t qualify with a .45 ACP at the time (can now) so I wanted the next best thing, SW 40. I had to borrow one to qualify with. Then I got to go back and pick up my 22. I’ve requalified for the commission every year since and requalify every 4 years for CCW. yet I still have a ”HOLD” every time I purchase a firearm. Trying to find out why is like trying to find out the combination to the safe a Fort Knocks.
You tried talking to a lawyer, just getting some advice about it? Because lawyers can make 1 phone call that will get further than your 500 calls/emails/letters ever will. I hope this is not the case but it sounds like someone may have used your name. Also, if NICS is missing some type of info on you like if your citizenship,military discharge, birth certificate, or something is slightly off or whatever that can always get you a non approval.
They don't want us to have guns anyways man. So its not like they will be in a hurry to resolve your issue. I know it sucks like a hooker on a sat night guy.

Last edited by polyman305; 12-10-2011 at 03:01..
polyman305 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2011, 07:26   #60
TheJ
Lifetime Membership
NRA Life Member
 
TheJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: GA
Posts: 1,478
Blog Entries: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
So, for those saying you want "Constitutional Carry" in the absolute purest sense, you have no problem with a 2-times convicted serial rapist carrying a gun, right?
Yes that is correct. However, I reject your question because it is based on a false premise. A twice convicted serial rapist being free to begin with is the core but a separate issue.

1. If he is too dangerous to own a firearm then he shouldn't be out of prison.
2. Whether he has LEGAL access to a firearm has practically nothing to do with wether or not he rapes again. The two have absolutely no connection.
3. SEE #1

Don't lie to yourself by thinking somebody who wants to rape/harm and is not incarcerated, can not get access to a means to do it. Believing that is fantasy. And trying to eliminate anything form people that "might be used as a weapon" is fantasy, ineffective and leads to bans on things like limes.
It is not practical think you can prevent free resolute people from having a means by which to harm others. In trying the only thing you can do by law, is make law abiding people sitting ducks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
The federal government doesn't determine May Issue/Shall Issue/No Issue, either. For all of you screaming about the exact wording of the 2nd Amendment, you realize that - as it stands right now - this has NO BEARING on most gun control laws, yes? Most restrictions on things like permits, magazine capacity, open/concealed carry, these are all state-level or lower laws. The 2nd Amendment applies to the FEDERAL government.

So, which are you? Are you a 100% supporter of the 2nd Amendment? Or do you believe in states' rights? Because the two CAN BE mutually exclusive.
Not exactly. I believe the SCOTUS Heller decision reaffirmed the individual rights of the 2A and McDonald "incorporated" them to the states. They said that the right of self defense and to have firearms is a "fundamental right", just like the 1A. And just like the 1A, it applies to the states. Every state ratified the constitution. So the states rights argument on 2a is somewhat fallacious. The SCOTUS did say there is room for some restrictions (just like the 1A) but the bar for restrictions on a fundamental right is exceedingly high (just like the 1A).

It is true that many of the most onerous of the thousands of state/local laws, won't disappear overnight though. Strategic civil rights litigation like that which is being undertaken by the Second Amendment Foundation takes time and must be done methodically to be the most effective. But if done correctly, with time, we will be emancipated from the enslavement of onerous firearms restrictions eventually.
__________________
Jay

The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. -F. Scott Fitzgerald
TheJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2011, 09:28   #61
Jerry
Moderator
 
Jerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 8,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
So, for those saying you want "Constitutional Carry" in the absolute purest sense, you have no problem with a 2-times convicted serial rapist carrying a gun, right? Because saying he can't? That's gun control. You realize this, yes? When comments are made like "I think every legal person should be allowed to carry however they want", you are already putting restrictions in place. Define "legal person", or more correctly, define how someone is NOT eligible. Welcome to the world of "reasonable gun control."


So, which are you? Are you a 100% supporter of the 2nd Amendment? Or do you believe in states' rights? Because the two CAN BE mutually exclusive.
There is a fallacy in your thought process. The problem does not lie with the Second Amendment GUARANTEEING the right of a two times convicted serial rapist having a gun because regardless of the law he will. The problem lies with the two times convicted serial rapist being allowed to walk amongst us. What is the difference if he’s raping is facilitated with the use of a gun, knife, broken bottle, brick or a hammer? Say knife or brick or hammer along with the word rape and it oh my, she was raped. Say raped at gun point and it’s the gun that becomes the focal point. Why? Emotion and no other reason!

Yes, I'm a 100% supporter of the 2nd. Amendment. Funny how they have picked and chosen which Amendments override “states rights(?)” and which one don't. Oh! And here’s another little tid-bit for you. The states have no rights. Only The People have rights. The Constitution doesn’t grant rights it acknowledges them and tells the government what it CAN and CAN NOT DO

Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Notice it doesn’t say “rights” it says “POWERS”.
__________________
Jerry
BIG DAWG #4

Liberal: Someone who is so open-minded their brains have fallen out.
Guns are not dangerous, people are.
Jerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2011, 09:40   #62
HoldHard
Senior Member
 
HoldHard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Motor City 'burbs
Posts: 930
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeross View Post
If there's a gun around, I wanna control it.
This!!

HH
__________________
Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.
HoldHard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2011, 09:44   #63
WarCry
Senior Member
 
WarCry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL, on the banks of the Muddy River
Posts: 7,216
Why do you believe the 2nd Amendment should be the only absolute right of the Bill of Rights? None of the others are.
__________________
"If you have something to say, now would be a perfect time to keep it to yourself." --Col. Chester Phillips
"If you believe everything you read, better not read." --Japanese proverb
WarCry is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2011, 09:51   #64
Jerry
Moderator
 
Jerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 8,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by polyman305 View Post
You tried talking to a lawyer, just getting some advice about it? Because lawyers can make 1 phone call that will get further than your 500 calls/emails/letters ever will. I hope this is not the case but it sounds like someone may have used your name. Also, if NICS is missing some type of info on you like if your citizenship,military discharge, birth certificate, or something is slightly off or whatever that can always get you a non approval.
They don't want us to have guns anyways man. So its not like they will be in a hurry to resolve your issue. I know it sucks like a hooker on a sat night guy.
Thanks for the advice but....

My middle name is not a common one. I give them my middle name not just an initial and my SS#.

I’ve had nothing but bad experiences when dealing with lawyers. Lawyers have lied to me on more than one occasion causing me grief. My daughter too! Divorce lawyer lied through her teeth. My daughter got screwed and since then the lawyer has hung her out to dry. I want nothing else to do with lawyers.

I’ve said ever since NICS was rumored that honorable men and women would get screwed by it. I just never imagined I’d be one of them.
__________________
Jerry
BIG DAWG #4

Liberal: Someone who is so open-minded their brains have fallen out.
Guns are not dangerous, people are.

Last edited by Jerry; 12-12-2011 at 20:37..
Jerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2011, 09:55   #65
TheJ
Lifetime Membership
NRA Life Member
 
TheJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: GA
Posts: 1,478
Blog Entries: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
Why do you believe the 2nd Amendment should be the only absolute right of the Bill of Rights? None of the others are.
Personally, I've never said it should be absolute. Why do you believe it deserves less protection then the others though?

The pen IS mightier then the sword and yet we don't need to get a permit to exercise free speech.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJ View Post
.... I believe the SCOTUS Heller decision reaffirmed the individual rights of the 2A and McDonald "incorporated" them to the states. They said that the right of self defense and to have firearms is a "fundamental right", just like the 1A. And just like the 1A, it applies to the states. Every state ratified the constitution. So the states rights argument on 2a is somewhat fallacious. The SCOTUS did say there is room for some restrictions (just like the 1A) but the bar for restrictions on a fundamental right is exceedingly high (just like the 1A).

It is true that many of the most onerous of the thousands of state/local laws, won't disappear overnight though. Strategic civil rights litigation like that which is being undertaken by the Second Amendment Foundation takes time and must be done methodically to be the most effective. But if done correctly, with time, we will be emancipated from the enslavement of onerous firearms restrictions eventually.
I believe the SCOTUS got this right and that is not absolute.
__________________
Jay

The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. -F. Scott Fitzgerald
TheJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2011, 09:56   #66
Jerry
Moderator
 
Jerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 8,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
Why do you believe the 2nd Amendment should be the only absolute right of the Bill of Rights? None of the others are.
I’ll answer your question with two questions. What does ”SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED” mean? Does any other Amendments end in that phrase?

Edited to add:

The founder felt so strongly about the RIGHT of The People to KEEP and “BEAR” arms” that they made sure EVERYONE would know the right was ABSOLUTE. However the government and the socialists have dumbed so many of the people down they can’t read simple English and comprehend the meaning.

A militia being necessary to a free state, (an armed citizenry of each state is necessary to protect the state from government tyranny), the RIGHT of The People SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. (the gummeyment is not allowed to put restrictions on citizens owning and carrying firearms. Anyone that does not comprehend that is either out to control the rights of others or is a complete idiot.

Does this sound like the founders wanted to allow restrictions or want the 2nd. to be ABSOLUTE?

Quote:
“I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.” George Mason

“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.” Thomas Jefferson

“Americans need not fear the federal government because they enjoy the advantage of being armed, which you possess over the people of almost every other nation.” James Madison

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria.

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" Patrick Henry

The atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. They deserve a place of honor with all good men. [George Washington]

"Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." --John Adams

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government . . . . No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms in his own hands." --Thomas Jefferson

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, because the whole of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."--Noah Webster, 1787
The RIGHT of The People to keep and bear was meant to be an is ABSOLUTE. Any law to the contrary is unconstitutional.
__________________
Jerry
BIG DAWG #4

Liberal: Someone who is so open-minded their brains have fallen out.
Guns are not dangerous, people are.

Last edited by Jerry; 12-10-2011 at 12:32..
Jerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 08:48   #67
TheJ
Lifetime Membership
NRA Life Member
 
TheJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: GA
Posts: 1,478
Blog Entries: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
The RIGHT of The People to keep and bear was meant to be an is ABSOLUTE. Any law to the contrary is unconstitutional.
I suspect we are on the same page with this... However, I think I define absolute differently. As I see it, "absolute" means that something can't even be touched even with due process (trial). I don't see any rights as absolute.
__________________
Jay

The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. -F. Scott Fitzgerald
TheJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 09:07   #68
eracer
Where's my EBT?
 
eracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 6,722
I'm all up for building more prisons and restoring all the cancelled social programs that treated mentally deranged people so that we can allow them to exercise their 2A right.

The day that all criminals (as defined by society) and psychotics (as defined by society) can be safely locked away and/or treated medically in such a way that eliminates the danger to society forever is the day I'll agree to NOT put any restrictions on gun ownership.

There are some people who should not be allowed to own guns. And if that statement along with my sigline causes you any confusion, well, I guess you'll just have to figure that out yourself...
__________________
Matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration; we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death. Life is a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves. And now...the weather! ---- Bill Hicks

Last edited by eracer; 12-12-2011 at 09:07..
eracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 10:40   #69
wheelman707
Senior Member
 
wheelman707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 102
NO!!!!! "No free man shall ever be debarred from the use of arms" Thomas Jefferson
The following is should how it should be.

Felons still can't get firearms, drug related offenses must be over 10 yrs ago to purchase(no burst/full auto allowed), domestic violence must be over 8 years ago to purchase (no burst/full auto allowed).

Handguns-18 y/o w/ safety class(like hunters safety course held at local gunstore) 21 w/o the class, Military personnel exempt from taking class

Long guns- 16 y/o

Suppressors- 18 y/o over the counter purchase

No capacity limit on magazines

Conceal carry- Military personnel will have a condensed course Held on base. This would fall under the same AR that the motorcycle safety course falls under. This would be required to conceal carry on gov installations(proof would be just easy as having a meal card made). If personnel convicted of field grade art.15's can not participate. Personnel on staff duty, leadership, and Courtesy patrol(cp) WOULD BE REQUIRED TO CONCEAL CARRY.

FBI instant check still in effect

No wait time

No limit on quantity

I think I tapped everything I wanted to annndd LESS THAN TWO DAYS IM BACK HOME STATESIDE WAAAHOOOOO

Last edited by wheelman707; 12-12-2011 at 10:44..
wheelman707 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 11:33   #70
Jerry
Moderator
 
Jerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 8,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJ View Post
I suspect we are on the same page with this... However, I think I define absolute differently. As I see it, "absolute" means that something can't even be touched even with due process (trial). I don't see any rights as absolute.
We’re close but you’re not quite there yet.

I understand, however… Show me where the Constitution grants the government the power to deny any “FREE” man’s rights. The key word being FREE. After all, some crimes are punishable by death. However, the Gummyment has not been granted the power to punishing free men.


The Amendments to the Constitution were written to PROTECT FREE MEN. The Constitution and particularly the Amendments are precisely to restrict the gummeyment. They don’t grant freedoms they ACKNOWLEDGE them and forbid gummyment intrusion on them.

The ACLU and other socialists have dumbed people down so much they actually think there is such a thing as separation of church and state. They press the gummeyment into making laws restricting religious activity on public property. And what is the first thing stated in the First Amendment? Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” Again the MORONS have interoperated that to mean the gummeyment CAN make laws forbidding the expression of religion in and on public places.


Quote:
“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.” Thomas Jefferson The atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. They deserve a place of honor with all good men. [George Washington]


"Let us hear no more of confidence in man, but let us keep THEM [men in government] from mischief by binding them down by the chains of the Constitution." [Thomas Jefferson] [emphasis added]

"Congress shall make no law, shall not be infringed".
Sounds pretty much like they wanted at least those Amendments to be ABSOLUTE if not all.
__________________
Jerry
BIG DAWG #4

Liberal: Someone who is so open-minded their brains have fallen out.
Guns are not dangerous, people are.

Last edited by Jerry; 12-12-2011 at 11:36..
Jerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 11:42   #71
Jerry
Moderator
 
Jerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 8,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by eracer View Post
I'm all up for building more prisons and restoring all the cancelled social programs that treated mentally deranged people so that we can allow them to exercise their 2A right.

The day that all criminals (as defined by society) and psychotics (as defined by society) can be safely locked away and/or treated medically in such a way that eliminates the danger to society forever is the day I'll agree to NOT put any restrictions on gun ownership.

There are some people who should not be allowed to own guns. And if that statement along with my sigline causes you any confusion, well, I guess you'll just have to figure that out yourself...
But then driving automobiles, having gasoline and matches, knives, bottles, bricks, fertilizer and diesel fuel is ok!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to have firearms since it appears you may have a mental defect.
__________________
Jerry
BIG DAWG #4

Liberal: Someone who is so open-minded their brains have fallen out.
Guns are not dangerous, people are.
Jerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 11:44   #72
94stang
Senior Member
 
94stang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Communist Republic of Illinois
Posts: 100
I am not for any foreign (other than me or my family) control over my firearms. Firearms are a given right, set forth by our founding fathers who found the matter important enough to make an amendment over 200 years ago to protect our ability to keep and bear our firearms to this day and until the United States no longer exists.

As for Our right to keep and bear arms, bear means obviously to me that we should all have the right to carry our arms it doesn't g. And to many in this Country the get any more clear. Now to many to carry (concealed or open) is given and recognized, however in my state (Illinois) we are still shackled and restrained from using our given rights because of one city. One city to control them all, Chicago.

So I believe that a LAW regulating the sale of firearms to criminals is a necessity but as for a 'law' to restrict our (law abiding free America's) gun ownership or to register our firearms is completely UN-constitutional and UN-ethical and just plain wrong.
__________________
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." -Robert A. Heinlein




Last edited by 94stang; 12-12-2011 at 11:46..
94stang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 12:41   #73
eracer
Where's my EBT?
 
eracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 6,722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
But then driving automobiles, having gasoline and matches, knives, bottles, bricks, fertilizer and diesel fuel is ok!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to have firearms since it appears you may have a mental defect.
Stating that deranged and/or habitually violent individuals shouldn't have access to bottles, and equating that to controlling their access to guns sounds to me like the ravings of someone living in their own little fantasy world.

I don't want to take your guns away. Really. Unless you are a deranged and/or habitually violent person. Then I most certainly do.
__________________
Matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration; we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death. Life is a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves. And now...the weather! ---- Bill Hicks

Last edited by eracer; 12-12-2011 at 14:18..
eracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 13:19   #74
TexasFats
NRA, TSRA, SAF
 
TexasFats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,264
Mandatory training opens the door to take away the gun rights of most of us by back-door methods. All that the gun grabbers have to do is to get training requirements that are too expensive and inconvenient for the average person to meet. That is exactly what DC is doing right now.
__________________
Governments are about the acquisition, extention, and exercise of power by an elite, who will then use that power to rule a peasantry for fun and profit.

Sauron lives, and his orc minions are on the march.
TexasFats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 14:18   #75
eracer
Where's my EBT?
 
eracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 6,722
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasFats View Post
Mandatory training opens the door to take away the gun rights of most of us by back-door methods. All that the gun grabbers have to do is to get training requirements that are too expensive and inconvenient for the average person to meet. That is exactly what DC is doing right now.
So we don't let them do that. But we accept that training in necessary.
__________________
Matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration; we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death. Life is a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves. And now...the weather! ---- Bill Hicks
eracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:17.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,143
367 Members
776 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42