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Old 11-04-2011, 17:14   #76
frankt
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180 Hornady XTP 8.9grs Longshot
Stock G29 W/ 21# Wolff Spring and guide rod
New Starline Brass 1.260 COL
63 degrees 10' from Chrono
Lo 1147 Hi 1173 Av 1164

Load functioned great, still launching brass pretty far. I will probably bump it a few more grains and call it a good all around load. Serious enough to get the job done but not overly hot or too hard on the hand.
Brass looked great.
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:27   #77
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Fusion Longslide data

Pistol: Fusion Traditional Hunter 10mm longslide, 6" bbl, fully supported
Temperature: 72 degrees, sunny, beautiful, no wind
Altitude: 500ft or so

NONE of these loads exhibited any bulges whatsoever. The max longshot loads did have a TINY bit of primer flattening but nothing out of the ordinary and nothing as flat as DT loads always show.

(LO, HI, AVG, ES, SD) - most were 5 shot strings to save ammo and $$

200gr XTP
7.6gr LS
1164
1189
1179
25.18
9.94

200gr XTP
7.8gr LS
1187
1206
1193
18.82
7.34

200gr XTP
8.0gr LS
1187
1249
1207
61.91
21.8

200gr XTP
8.2gr LS
1194
1272
1229
77.47
26.21

165gr GS
9.0gr LS
1342
1430
1390
87.75
33.22

180gr SXT (bonded)
7.0gr LS
1109
1182
1148
72.28
28.87


This was my first time doing a work-up with Longshot. Lovin' this powder! More to come in this space. I've got a series of 8.4-9.0gr loads I'm working up to attempt to map the performance.

NOTE** I'm wondering if my high ES's are due to a problem with consistent metering with the Lee Adjustable Charge Bar. Will test this theory out soon.
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Old 11-20-2011, 20:30   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickE10mm View Post
Pistol: Fusion Traditional Hunter 10mm longslide, 6" bbl, fully supported
Temperature: 72 degrees, sunny, beautiful, no wind
Altitude: 500ft or so

NONE of these loads exhibited any bulges whatsoever. The max longshot loads did have a TINY bit of primer flattening but nothing out of the ordinary and nothing as flat as DT loads always show.

(LO, HI, AVG, ES, SD) - most were 5 shot strings to save ammo and $$

200gr XTP
7.6gr LS
1164
1189
1179
25.18
9.94

200gr XTP
7.8gr LS
1187
1206
1193
18.82
7.34

200gr XTP
8.0gr LS
1187
1249
1207
61.91
21.8

200gr XTP
8.2gr LS
1194
1272
1229
77.47
26.21

165gr GS
9.0gr LS
1342
1430
1390
87.75
33.22

180gr SXT (bonded)
7.0gr LS
1109
1182
1148
72.28
28.87



This was my first time doing a work-up with Longshot. Lovin' this powder! More to come in this space. I've got a series of 8.4-9.0gr loads I'm working up to attempt to map the performance.

NOTE** I'm wondering if my high ES's are due to a problem with consistent metering with the Lee Adjustable Charge Bar. Will test this theory out soon.

Hey my friend, where did you get those 180gr SXT Bonded bullets to hand load?


Thanks!



CM
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Old 11-20-2011, 20:34   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanyonMan View Post
Hey my friend, where did you get those 180gr SXT Bonded bullets to hand load?


Thanks!



CM
Good observation, bud.

I pulled them from some .40SW defense ammo. (I used to have a conversion bbl so I had some old ammo laying around)
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Old 01-23-2012, 18:51   #80
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In the Memeory of Mike Willard / Mudrush

10mm Reloading Forum
Mike Willard at SwampFox Ammo died November 5th 2011
http://www.stoudenmiredowling.com/do...?intProdID=414

SWAMPFOX PREMIUM


MAXIMUM VELOCITY AMMUNITION


SwampFox Premium
Maximum Velocity Ammunition
10mm Auto-200gr Hornady XTP
1240 fps@muzzle - Lot#120110
sfp10mmHXTP

I pulled down rounds from this box of his ammo and this is what I learned...

The Starline cartridge contained 9.4 grains of Hodgdon LongShot, COAL @ 1.250”, Primers possibly CCI 300, as sold to the public.
I verified the charge weight on two scales (digital & balance beam), in the effort to learn what Mike was producing for his customers.


Mike Willard / Mudrush discussed this load on Glock Talk in a response to Kegs question of how did he obtain 1325 fps using the Hornady 200 grain XTP. This link to the discussion at Post #20
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1357227 Date 07-23-2011, 22:19 #20

This is the load he shared to us on the forum...
200gr @ 1325 fps (XTP & FMJ)10gr LongShot 300cci primer. 1.250” col


I will add here to be very cautious as with any internet data, using this information to handload ammunition will strickly be your responsibility and risk!w/ AFTERMARKET FULLY SUPPORTED barrel ONLY! 22lbs recoil springs! Loads should reduced for use in 6" or longer barrels!

This page was created to honor Mike Willard and Swamp Fox Ammo that many of us here came to know as; a high quality product as being the real deal and true 10mm ammo!

The
SHADOW
Knows!

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Old 01-23-2012, 19:21   #81
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To summarize the info we have gleaned from the late Mike Willard @ Swampfox:

9.4gr LS under a 200gr XTP = 1240fps (+) in G20 w/ AFTERMARKET FULLY SUPPORTED barrel ONLY.

10.0gr LS under a 200gr XTP = 1325fps in G20 w/ AFTERMARKET FULLY SUPPORTED barrel.

Primers used were CCI300 NON mag primers.

The charge should be reduced for use in a longer 6" barrel otherwise pressure will be too high. Per The late Mike W.


Standard disclaimer applies. Do your OWN slow, careful workups with new brass. ALSO, it's my opinion that the 10.0gr load probably averages over 37.5k. Just my guess.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:27   #82
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Added info to reflect what nickE10mm mentioned to the page...I would suggest that people read all of the info by going to the GlockTalk link provided...
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1357227 Date 07-23-2011, 22:19 #20

This is so those wishing to get a grasp of the type of person Mudrush was and what was discussed...
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Old 01-24-2012, 14:53   #83
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............

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Old 01-24-2012, 16:09   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Any Cal. View Post
Yes, it is important that we all take to heart the misinformation provided by a guy who didn't understand what he was doing. I think we should all try to spread that around, so as to further misinform others and make it even more difficult for those who are trying to understand what is really happening. It is especially comforting to know that he was selling handloaded ammunition, despite not having even a rudimentary understanding of internal ballistics.
In all seriousness, I am trying to follow your remarks, but am not sure if there is sarcasm, etc. Are you saying that you believe that mudrush lacked an understanding about internal ballistics?

Not challenging you. Just trying to make sure I understand your remarks. Would you mind elaborating a bit?

Thanks.
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Old 01-24-2012, 21:30   #85
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He's probably referring to the "higher pressure in 6"+ barrels" comment. See the discussion of that topic in another thread on this forum. I don't agree with mudrush's claim either, but it's pretty much a moot point for us handloaders, as we should be working up to max loads in each barrel and gun anyway.

I'm sure there's more to be discussed about the 6" barrel issue; can we do that in the other thread, to not clutter this one?

I'm sorry to hear that mudrush has passed; it sounds like we could have learned more from him, and him from us as well. It was generous of him to share his load data with us.

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Old 01-24-2012, 22:47   #86
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Taterhead, I did elaborate, but then realized how far off topic my last post was getting... Your quote will show my original post, everything else edited for brevity.

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Old 01-25-2012, 04:58   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickE10mm View Post
To summarize:

9.4gr LS under a 200gr XTP = 1240fps (+) in G20 w/ AFTERMARKET FULLY SUPPORTED barrel ONLY.

10.0gr LS under a 200gr XTP = 1325fps in G20 w/ AFTERMARKET FULLY SUPPORTED barrel.

Primers used were CCI300 NON mag primers.

The charge should be reduced for use in a longer 6" barrel otherwise pressure will be too high. Per The late Mike W.

Standard disclaimer applies. Do your OWN slow, careful workups with new brass. ALSO, it's my opinion that the 10.0gr load probably averages over 37.5k. Just my guess.
Indeed, something north of 37,500. Altough QuickLoad is not always exact, and I'd appreciate another QL user checking this, with a measured 0.676" long .400" diameter 200 gr XTP (40060) in 24.6 gr H2O MCC 0.987" long Starline brass with 10.0 gr LongShot 1.26" OAL from a G20sf, QL shows 1316 fps at 62,825 psi. That velocity is about what you indicated, I hope the pressure calculation is not correct. Personally, I would not load that round.
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:54   #88
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Actually the Hornady 200XTP's I measured were 0.680"-0.682"

I don't know if I would ever go to the 10 grain LongShot loading, however I'll be testing the 9.4 grains of LongShot, as this is what was sold by SwampFox in the lot# of ammo I have on hand. Everyone was raving over this stuff!
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Old 01-25-2012, 14:48   #89
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Did a little test today using the SwamFox 9.4 grain of LongShot with 200 grain Hornady XTP's loading...

1) "Used" Starline Brass which had a slight smile and loose primer pocket before sizing, this was reconditioned using the LEE FCD as a pass-thru-die. After the shot from the S&W 1006 velocity 1260 fps, it expanded to 0.4295" and the loose primer pocket showed some soot leakage.

2) Again with the S&W 1006 a "used" Federal casing which disappeared into grass never to be found but regestered 1296 fps.

3) Tested from the Glock-29 @ 1175 fps "used" Starline casing expanded to 0.4340"

)4 Again from the Glock-29 @ 1177 fps "used" Hornady casing expanded to 0.4340", this case split lengthwise 0.3535" long about mid case.
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Old 01-25-2012, 14:58   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _The_Shadow View Post
Did a little test today using the SwamFox 9.4 grain of LongShot with 200 grain Hornady XTP's loading...

1) "Used" Starline Brass which had a slight smile and loose primer pocket before sizing, this was reconditioned using the LEE FCD as a pass-thru-die. After the shot from the S&W 1006 velocity 1260 fps, it expanded to 0.4295" and the loose primer pocket showed some soot leakage.

2) Again with the S&W 1006 a "used" Federal casing which disappeared into grass never to be found but regestered 1296 fps.

3) Tested from the Glock-29 @ 1175 fps "used" Starline casing expanded to 0.430"

)4 Again from the Glock-29 @ 1177 fps "used" Hornady casing expanded to 0.430", this case split lengthwise 0.3535" long about mid case.
Shadow,

Using your XTP 200 gr (40060) .461" bullet length and 5" barrel, assuming 1.26" OAL, QL predicts 1277 fps at 54,431 psi for 9.4 gr LS at 70F. That velocity agrees pretty well with your cases 1, 2, and 3. Hope the pressure is being over-predicted by QL.

Image at https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5f...I1N2Y1YjNkMjNk

Last edited by gwsanfor; 01-25-2012 at 15:03.. Reason: Added link to image
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Old 01-25-2012, 16:30   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsanfor View Post
Shadow,

Using your XTP 200 gr (40060) .461" bullet length and 5" barrel, assuming 1.26" OAL, QL predicts 1277 fps at 54,431 psi for 9.4 gr LS at 70F. That velocity agrees pretty well with your cases 1, 2, and 3. Hope the pressure is being over-predicted by QL.

Image at https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5f...I1N2Y1YjNkMjNk
The XTP 200 gr (40060) actual measure at 0.6820"-0.6825" in length
I loaded to 1.250"
Yes it was probably at least 75F today and slightly above sea level 22'-25'

I am not that familure with the Quickload Software but I have seen people post that these loads are above the 37,500 psi ceiling in the charts. Pressure testing would likely show results one way or the other.

One thing I read about pressure testing rigs was that SAAMI test barrel rigs have the strain gauge mounted on the inside the chamber as opposed to the RSI type with the strain gauge on the exterior of the test barrel. The cartridge case expansion acts directly on the inside chamber mounted unit that is slightly recessed in the walls of the specific chamber.

Like I mentioned these were "used" brass that were reconditioned using the LEE FCD as a pass-thru-die, all finished rounds easily fit the Lyman cartridge gauge.

(brass#1) The primer pocket was loose prior to reloading that one and I fully expected it to have some blow by, however all primers were slightly flattened during this test and no leaks for the other two I recovered.

(brass#4) Hornady, I did not expect to see it split like it did. But I have seen this happen on new ammo (FC more than any other) on a first firing.

I know many use new brass to test their stuff, but I test using new and used and in different pistols or barrels for comparisons.

I personally do not have any pressure testing equipment, I only have digital calipers and chronograph to work with.
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Old 01-25-2012, 16:39   #92
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EXCELLENT info and testing, Shadow... Very enlightening. I'll have more related data when I finally get some chrono time. Again, good info here!
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Old 01-26-2012, 05:54   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _The_Shadow View Post
Did a little test today using the SwamFox 9.4 grain of LongShot with 200 grain Hornady XTP's loading...

1) "Used" Starline Brass which had a slight smile and loose primer pocket before sizing, this was reconditioned using the LEE FCD as a pass-thru-die. After the shot from the S&W 1006 velocity 1260 fps, it expanded to 0.4295" and the loose primer pocket showed some soot leakage.

2) Again with the S&W 1006 a "used" Federal casing which disappeared into grass never to be found but regestered 1296 fps.

3) Tested from the Glock-29 @ 1175 fps "used" Starline casing expanded to 0.430"

)4 Again from the Glock-29 @ 1177 fps "used" Hornady casing expanded to 0.430", this case split lengthwise 0.3535" long about mid case.
Could you post pics of the cases... or at least the Hornady case that split?
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Old 01-26-2012, 07:48   #94
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These were used brass that I tested with, I have no idea how many times they were shot, but as mentioned the one the primer leaked on, the primer was loose when I installed it. So I expected it would leak some and it did. The Hornady case may have been work hardened but the other was just fine. NO "smiles" from this test from either pistol.

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Old 01-26-2012, 18:44   #95
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I'm getting pretty close to reloading myself... and fully intend on working up to the 200gr XTP @ 1325 fps loads that Swamp Fox used to make. (Yes, slowly... no need for safety comments.)

I shot a lot of those loads in my G29SF without any issues. I was using a KKM barrel for what it is worth. I think we have seen enough things go wrong with a stock Glock barrel and loads this hot. I will always use my KKM.

Just thought I would bring this up in case anyone was looking for someone who actually shot those loads. (I know there are a lot of us, but don't know if any are responding here.)

I never had any case splitting or buldging problems, however I was using Mike's new loads and not reloading myself with used brass.
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Old 01-26-2012, 18:57   #96
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G29SF, was that the velocity listed on the box of Swamp Fox? It would be nice if you could use a kenetic bullet puller to pull down one form that box and actually measure the powder charge...The more we can learn before the actual loadings are gone the better!

Have you ever worked with Hodgdon "LongShot"? IMR "Hi-Skor" 800X? The reason I ask is would you reconize one from the other? Swamp Fox posted he loaded with either for some loadings.

It would be great to have people do this like I did to learn even more of Mudrush's work before it is too late.
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Old 02-04-2012, 16:17   #97
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Just as a reference for the 9.4 grain LongShot load that I tested here is a screen shot of the Quick Load program which a friend has run for me so I will share it here...
10mm Reloading Forum

As you can see the pressure is shown above that of the SAAMI MAP for 10mm. I don't know exactly how accurate the data is, but the 58,823 psi was the predicted peak. I don't see myself working past this load toward the 10.0 grain LongShot which Mudrush posted.

I would like to see what XMMAUTO's pressure test would show on his rig?
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Old 02-05-2012, 06:41   #98
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Quik load = LOLZ! Worse accuracy than al gores climate charts!
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Old 02-27-2012, 12:13   #99
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SwampFox 200gr XTP @ 1325fps - FULLY SUPPORTED AFTERMARKET BARREL ONLY

See this thread: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthre...1#post18638379

I found this load to contain 9.9gr Longshot under a 200gr XTP, loaded to an OAL of 1.250-1.251"
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Old 03-04-2012, 15:15   #100
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What's a good load for 155gr lead swc using longshot? Was going to pick up some of these http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...%7C1083%7C1135

Good price and has a saeco hardness of 9. Which converts to a bhn of 17. Any tips? Couldn't find anything on this thread, but might of overlooked it.

Out of curiosity does lead usually get loaded with more or less powder than a jacketed bullet? Swc vs fmj.
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