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Old 01-24-2012, 11:36   #1
BudMan5
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For Illinois residents: Are pigs about to fly?

The United States District Court for Central Illinois is currently hearing Moore v. Madigan in which the complainant, Michael Moore and the Second Amendment Foundation are suing Lisa Madigan, the Attorney General of Illinois, concerning the prohibition of carrying firearms for personal protection in Illinois.

The case has been ongoing since last Spring. The Judge has just released the transcipt of the oral arguments that were made last August. You can read it here:

Moore v. Madigan

This is considered the last hurdle before the Judge renders an opinion. Reading the transcript is interesting because the Judge seems to be leaning towards issuing an injunction against the State of Illinois which would in effect, end the State's Unlawful Use of Weapon statue.

In another case, this one in the Southern District, Shepard v. Madigan, plantiff Mary Shepard, a 76 year old church secretary who was beaten and left for dead by a parolee is also nearing a resolution. Shepard, who holds both Florida and Pennsylvania concealed carry permits was forbidden to carry a pistol for self defense when she was beated and robbed while in Illinois. Illinois law denies her right to self-defense.

Meanwhile, House Bill 148, the the Family and Personal Proection Act is still alive and gaining more sponsors in the Illinois House. The Bill is ready to be voted on and if a Federal Judge orders and injunction against the State concerning the Unlawful Use of Weapon Statue, HB 148 could be passed immediately. It missed passing a super majority last May by a vote of 65-31 in favor (71 were mneeded to insure pre-emption and to ov er ride a possible veto by the Governor). Since that time, it has gained another four sponsers

Things are changing in Illinois. With Wisconsin passing their concealed carry law, Illinois is the single State left where its citizens have no right to self protection.

It's beginning to look like that will happen this year.
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Old 01-24-2012, 11:40   #2
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Old 01-24-2012, 11:56   #3
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As a refugee living in exile from my home state of Illinois this is pleasant news indeed. Thank you sir for bringing it to my attention. I greatly look forward to the day when I can make my visits back to the land of Lincoln to visit my family while enjoying the protection of a firearm at my side (assuming they also adopt reciprocity with neighboring states at least).
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Old 01-24-2012, 14:16   #4
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Don't get your hopes up too high. Anybody that thinks the leaders of that corrupt state[Madigan, Cullerton, and Rahm] are gona roll over and let a concealed carry bill go thru without these cases going all the way to the supreme court is dreaming! They're makin progress, but concealed carry is a ways off for the state of Chicago.
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Old 01-24-2012, 14:22   #5
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Originally Posted by cheapshot View Post
Don't get your hopes up too high. Anybody that thinks the leaders of that corrupt state[Madigan, Cullerton, and Rahm] are gona roll over and let a concealed carry bill go thru without these cases going all the way to the supreme court is dreaming! They're makin progress, but concealed carry is a ways off for the state of Chicago.
And, even if the SC slapps IL's laws down, expect the same situation as exists in DC where the permitting process is so convoluted, expensive, and difficult as to put CCW out of the reach of any but the the very wealthy and politically well-connected.
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Old 01-24-2012, 15:54   #6
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I've been following this fairly closely. Think about it. Rahm is the mayor of illinois. Mike Madigan is speaker of the house. His daughter is attorney general. That legislature is not gona just roll over and give in. Even if one of the cases goes the right way, it will be appealed into the next millenium. And if anyone thinks that a judge is going to strike their uuw laws and that will mean instant concealed carry is NUTS! Aint gona happen in illinois until it's forced to. And that's gona be a good long while, if ever. Really sux. They thought they had the votes in the house last year, but Madigan put a stop to it at the last hour, just like he will AGAIN. No amount of pressure is going to make it happen in illinois until it comes from SCOTUS. Concealed carry in illinois this year? Yeah right.
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Old 01-24-2012, 17:26   #7
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oh ye of little faith

Join us at illinoisCarry.com and learn what is really happening.

Concealed carry in Illinois will pass this year and be the law of the land January 1, 2013.

you read it here first
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Old 01-24-2012, 17:44   #8
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oh ye of little faith

Join us at illinoisCarry.com and learn what is really happening.

Concealed carry in Illinois will pass this year and be the law of the land January 1, 2013.

you read it here first
Would you care to explain exactly how that would happen? Sure would be great to hear. Maybe there's something i don't realize.
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Old 01-24-2012, 21:48   #9
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Would you care to explain exactly how that would happen? Sure would be great to hear. Maybe there's something i don't realize.
A few things here:

This thread was posted about a court case, NOT a piece of legislation. This court case - and another that's still ongoing - have requested a permanent injunction that would bar law enforcement from enforcing the parts of IL law that restrict carrying firearms. No exceptions for government buildings, no exceptions for bars, no requirements for training or licensing. They're asking for full Alaska-style carry: If you're legal to own it, you're legal to carry it. The legislation isn't involved in these decisions.

The other side IS the legislation, and BudMan is right. The bill fell less than 10 votes from passing in the House last year, and because of these court cases, several of the "hard-charger, never-gonna-happen" Chicago politicians have gotten scared. Representative Brandon Phelps - the Democrat from southern IL that introduced the CCW bill last year - told his peers they could pass the law that he worked on that included certain requirements and exceptions, or they could NOT pass it and the courts would decide with no other input. Guess what? They bill didn't pass, and the courts are looking at dropping that BIG hammer. So, now the naysayers are starting to say "Well, maybe we can work something out."

BudMan is right. There will be celebrations one way or the other for 50 states with carry rights coming VERY soon.
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Old 01-25-2012, 16:51   #10
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Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
A few things here:

This thread was posted about a court case, NOT a piece of legislation. This court case - and another that's still ongoing - have requested a permanent injunction that would bar law enforcement from enforcing the parts of IL law that restrict carrying firearms. No exceptions for government buildings, no exceptions for bars, no requirements for training or licensing. They're asking for full Alaska-style carry: If you're legal to own it, you're legal to carry it. The legislation isn't involved in these decisions.

The other side IS the legislation, and BudMan is right. The bill fell less than 10 votes from passing in the House last year, and because of these court cases, several of the "hard-charger, never-gonna-happen" Chicago politicians have gotten scared. Representative Brandon Phelps - the Democrat from southern IL that introduced the CCW bill last year - told his peers they could pass the law that he worked on that included certain requirements and exceptions, or they could NOT pass it and the courts would decide with no other input. Guess what? They bill didn't pass, and the courts are looking at dropping that BIG hammer. So, now the naysayers are starting to say "Well, maybe we can work something out."

BudMan is right. There will be celebrations one way or the other for 50 states with carry rights coming VERY soon.
Guess we'll have to wait and see huh? I still think you're underestimating the political strength of the chicago crew. The McDonald case was considered a major win for gun owners in chicago. As i understand it, it's a MAJOR, EXPENSIVE, undertaking to go thru all the hoops put into place by the chicago machine immediately after that decision was handed down. And i do understand the difference between the legislatio and the court cases. The group that says that concealed carry is coming soon is saying that the pressure from these cases is going to change enough votes to make the legislatio pass when it is brought back up. The sponsor of the bill THOUGHT he had enough votes the first time. Turns out he didn't because Madigan put the pressure on at the last hour. And it will happen again. If anyone thinks that putting "pressure" on those that call the shots in that state is going to change anything, well, i respectfully disagree. Those people have been thumbing their noses at court decision for decades and still are. McDonald for example. If it wasn't for that cesspool of a city called chicago, the state would have had their rights restored years ago.
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Old 01-26-2012, 15:18   #11
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We are holding Town Hall meetings in all of the Chicago neighborhoods and explaining the historical aspects of how the Firearms Owners identification card and the Unlawful Use of Weapons Statues came into being after the 1968 riots. Thety are all based on the racist decision by the first Mayor Daley to do everything in his power to prevent African-Americans from getting guns.

I know this is true because I was a white Illinois police Officer in 1969 and was there when it happened.

As the voters of Chicago are learning the truth, they are going to their Aldermen/State Representatives and State Senators and asking, "WTH?"

The voters can take the politicians power away and it is happening and the politicians are getting scared and desperate.
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Old 01-26-2012, 18:02   #12
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We are holding Town Hall meetings in all of the Chicago neighborhoods and explaining the historical aspects of how the Firearms Owners identification card and the Unlawful Use of Weapons Statues came into being after the 1968 riots. Thety are all based on the racist decision by the first Mayor Daley to do everything in his power to prevent African-Americans from getting guns.

I know this is true because I was a white Illinois police Officer in 1969 and was there when it happened.

As the voters of Chicago are learning the truth, they are going to their Aldermen/State Representatives and State Senators and asking, "WTH?"

The voters can take the politicians power away and it is happening and the politicians are getting scared and desperate.
.How the uuw laws came to be in your state have nothing to do with this discussion. The real issue here is the fact that there are 100's of thousands,[if not millions], of welfare recipients in chicago. some of them are 3rd and 4th generation "employees of the state". These people vote! They do so to maintain their "way of life". The same reps that they vote for are the SAME reps that are the stumbling block for anything your downstaters want, such as concealed carry. YOUR governor was elected in 3 counties. That's right. He carried only 3 counties out of 102. Needless to say, those 3 weren't downstate. No amount of town hall meetings are going to sway the reps that do as the chicago machine TELLS them to do! As a side note, i read somewhere that a handful of illinois state reps in the northeast part of you state are also employees of the city of chicago! Is this true? If so, who do you think is going to be "bending their ear"? Thats right--Rahm. I must say i admire your perserverance and wish you the best of luck. And i'll be back next year to ask "What went wrong? Did someone mis-lead you?"
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Old 01-29-2012, 12:52   #13
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The tide is turning in Illinois.

HB148 has support on both sides of the aisle in the State house. There were 3 Republicans that voted against it. All 3 of them for the most part, border Chicago. The Dems that voted against it were all from Chicago or butted up against it.

Currently there is one African-American rep in Chicago who has gone on record as saying he will vote for HB148. Note, saying it and doing it are two very different things. However, one rep in Chicago may be the domino that we need to start the rest tumbling. Okay, maybe not the rest but enough to get it passed.

The town hall meetings have been well received and believe it or not, have been generating some seriously positive responses from the media.

Stay tuned kids, the next legislative session is about to begin...
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Old 02-02-2012, 04:36   #14
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I would really like to see Illinois get a carry law in place and become a shall issue state.

Once all fifty states have a carry law, I think with the ground gained, we can be further on the way to having a little more leverage to get some of the more BS gun laws repealed.

The Hughes Amendment to the FOPA is at the top of my list.

(I won't hold my breath though.)
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Old 02-04-2012, 12:25   #15
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oh ye of little faith

Join us at illinoisCarry.com and learn what is really happening.

Concealed carry in Illinois will pass this year and be the law of the land January 1, 2013.

you read it here first
I assume you are aware of the Moore vs. Madigan decision handed down 2/3? Still bettin on concealed carry 1/1/13? Not a chance. Still several years away, if then. And ONLY if obama doesn't get re-elected in the meantime and appoint another Kagan to the group.
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Old 02-04-2012, 16:17   #16
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I assume you are aware of the Moore vs. Madigan decision handed down 2/3? Still bettin on concealed carry 1/1/13? Not a chance. Still several years away, if then. And ONLY if obama doesn't get re-elected in the meantime and appoint another Kagan to the group.
There's still an open case in the courts - Shepard v. Madigan - and if that fails, one or both will go to the Supreme Court (which, honestly, is where you're going to get the longest-reaching result).

And even then, I still expect the law to be passed in the legislature in this year's session anyhow. That's how the pendulum is swinging, even with a few reps from Chicago.

A doom-and-gloom attitude, pessimism in the face of all that's going on, makes no sense to me.
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Old 02-04-2012, 17:46   #17
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There's still an open case in the courts - Shepard v. Madigan - and if that fails, one or both will go to the Supreme Court (which, honestly, is where you're going to get the longest-reaching result).

And even then, I still expect the law to be passed in the legislature in this year's session anyhow. That's how the pendulum is swinging, even with a few reps from Chicago.

A doom-and-gloom attitude, pessimism in the face of all that's going on, makes no sense to me.
Not doom and gloom. I have stated before that i believe Illinois will get concealed carry after a period of several years. And i still believe that. It will happen if, and only if, one of these cases happens to get all the way thru SCOTUS successfully. As i've said before to others, No amount of pressure from anyone is going to make any difference to Madigan and his machine. History proves this. I truly admire the optimism of some of the people involved in the struggle, but it is a small group that thinks this will happen this year thru legislation. No, not pessimism, realism if you truly have a clear picture of how chicago politics works. As i've said before, I'll be around after the legislative session is over to ask what went wrong. Hopefully i will have to eat my words, but i'm willin to bet i don't. Good luck Sir!
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