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Old 02-20-2012, 09:39   #21
GaryC
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Originally Posted by 3/4Flap View Post
Not sure how that works but since many Glocks don't, my own included, I think it might rank up there with Public Service Announcements in the great tradition of the "Don't Litter" Indian, "Please Kids Don't Eat Paint Chips" and "Use a Condom With the 42 Guys You Are Banging At the Gay Bar This Saturday Night".
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:10   #22
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I did what Dave did to his extractor to fix my newer Gen 3 ,17 it worked fine. I actually used a casing against the breach face as a guide to get a firmer hold on the rim, and basically tuned the extractor for a better grip. The extractor is a cast part, not machined so some are not perfect. I think a little careful cleanup would help with some of the guns that are having problems. I took very little metal of mine just enough to improve the grip with very fine stones, so if you try this be careful (a little goes a long way)
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:26   #23
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Which of these two spots are you guys talking about? Or neither?

1. General Glocking

2. General Glocking

On the "new" extractor that came in my G27, I noticed some pretty extreme wear on spot #1.
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:27   #24
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3/4 Flap, I sure wish you'd done your experiment in two stages -- first with polishing the top and bottom surfaces and then the reduction to the step that limits how far inward the extractor rotates. I say that because many people have had success by just polishing the top and bottom (and sometimes the pivot "cone"). I don't remember anyone ever touching the step, but I welcome people trying different things. As much as I would like to believe the step is an issue, since the extractors are clearly rotated out with a cartridge in the chamber vs an empty chamber, the only affect of the step is during loading, as you pointed out, and when it again touches during extraction. While the removal of .005" would theoretically allow pressure for some extra time, I would think it to be way less than minuscule. I'd be very suspicious that your success, if it continues, is the result of freeing up the extractor by polishing the two surfaces, and cleaning up the claw.

Please keep us up to date on your further testing. I could well be following in your footsteps in the next few days.
+1. Top and bottom polish ALONE fixed my issues.
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:31   #25
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+1. Top and bottom polish ALONE fixed my issues.
#1 is the area just be cautious of removing to much, I would suggest a light polish and then a test fire. It is not an expensive part but going to far will ruin it.
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:43   #26
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#1 is the area just be cautious of removing to much, I would suggest a light polish and then a test fire. It is not an expensive part but going to far will ruin it.
Correct.

#1.

And yes, don't go too far.

Again; tho it is tempting, and possibly correct to assumed the EXTRACTOR is to blame, its bearing surface inside the slide COULD be partly or wholly involved. Mod to the extractor is of course preferable to possibly ruining the frame.

It's just that there is so much we don't know about actual Glock manufacturing processes that we must work to some degree in the dark.

I also like Dave's idea of an increased-strength extractor spring. I do not see much downside to this and do see how it could help.

I also see no worldly need for the complex part that the Glock extractor is. I just don't get it. The thing looks completely over-engineered to me. It totally lacks intuitive "simplicity" that the Glock basically exhibits.
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:44   #27
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I posted a clearly elucidated hypothesis explaining erratic ejection from Glocks a few months back which fits this fix very well.

In essence, the cartridge case does not have time to fall out of position. The slide moves about 1 inch before the case hits the ejector and it travels at about 1.5fps. That lasts about 0.125 seconds and that is not time to fall enough to matter, especially since the case is held by the chamber for most of that time.

More important is the fight between the friction between case and ejector and between case and extractor. If the friction at the extractor side is weak the case will tend to be pulled out from the extractor and will tend to pivot about the ejector rather than the extractor. Rather than its C of G being rotated forward and outward it rotates backward and outward, but the outward component reduces as the case rotates. This movement is limited because the case is blocked by and impacts the breechface. Without that impact, if it could get to 45 degrees, its momentum would be directly backwards.

In what we can consider as normal extraction, by the time the case has rotated 45 degrees its C of G is just about level with the port and if it is still constrained by the extractor its momentum will be taking it directly out of the port. As the slide is still moving backwards the case will be ejected further to the right than staight to the side. In the extreme of abnormal ejection where the rotation is entirely about the ejector tip the C of G of the case, backwards at 20 or 30 derees from straight out through the port ends up with the case bouncing around in the port rather than being ejected cleanly.

As the surface the ejector impacts is inconsistent, with some places rougher than others and some places with indented writing, the grip the ejector gets will be very variable. Bouncing around in the open port is variable in itself but when we add the variable initial conditions we get wide variation in the direction of ejection leading to stove pipes, double feeds and a scater of directions, including to the left, when the case does get thrown clear.

Many suggest wearing a hat and getting used to being hit on the head and I don't think they are intending to be humerous. In fact, any erratic ejection is a serious fault because it can put the pistol out of action when you need it most. Glock should have faced a class action well before now for selling a self defence pistol which does not meet the standards required for a self defence weapon.

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Old 02-20-2012, 10:51   #28
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This ain't new stuff, either, folks.

Guess why the internal extractors of the BHP and SIG's became external?

Guess what one of the most serious weak spots in the 1911 is?

Yup.

STAR saw the problem and pretty well dealt with it in the '20's, tho QC didn't keep up with their surperb designs.

And....

The fix posted and pictured on another forum promises to be one more in a long line of attempts to deal with the Plague; Cutting down of the slide at the ejection port.......A FIX THAT HIT 1911-TYPE GUNS 30 YEARS AGO.

Getting rid of a fired case from inside a semiautomatic handgun is not as easy as spitting out a worn out dip of chew.
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:52   #29
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I tried the White Sound Defense HRED EDP assembly which uses a stronger spring and it didn't make much difference in the ejection with the original extractor that my G27 came with.
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:53   #30
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English, I agree with your thoughts. The problem is, over here in the colonies we don't understand your thought process when it is explained that concisely. You need to dumb down your way of expressing your thoughts for us.
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:49   #31
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Just finished my 19 and took it into our back yard to shoot 5 quick rounds. According to my Wife, all 5 cases were in about the same consistent line to the right side. I'm Happy. No more embarrassment at the Range because I would get my football helment and gogles out. Now off to my 27. Thanks for the info!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old 02-20-2012, 12:01   #32
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Originally Posted by 3/4Flap View Post
This ain't new stuff, either, folks.

Guess why the internal extractors of the BHP and SIG's became external?

Guess what one of the most serious weak spots in the 1911 is?

Yup.

STAR saw the problem and pretty well dealt with it in the '20's, tho QC didn't keep up with their surperb designs.

And....

The fix posted and pictured on another forum promises to be one more in a long line of attempts to deal with the Plague; Cutting down of the slide at the ejection port.......A FIX THAT HIT 1911-TYPE GUNS 30 YEARS AGO.

Getting rid of a fired case from inside a semiautomatic handgun is not as easy as spitting out a worn out dip of chew.
I don't think so. Guess what type of extractor my Wilson CQB has? Internal & it has 6,200 rounds without a malfunction. My Uzi also has an internal spring-steel extractor & even looks exactly like a 1911 extractor. More than 28,000 rounds without a malfunction & it's the original part.

I think it's a design & quality control issue.
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Old 02-20-2012, 12:14   #33
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Let's see here, how did that Kimber external extractor 1911 fix thing go?
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Old 02-20-2012, 12:37   #34
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Just finished my 19 and took it into our back yard to shoot 5 quick rounds. According to my Wife, all 5 cases were in about the same consistent line to the right side. I'm Happy. No more embarrassment at the Range because I would get my football helment and gogles out. Now off to my 27. Thanks for the info!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did you get it to work by cleaning up the extractor?
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Old 02-20-2012, 12:40   #35
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Maybe we need a sticky for

"Glock FLUFF AND BUFF"
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Old 02-20-2012, 12:51   #36
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Did you get it to work by cleaning up the extractor?
Little of both - follow Dave's post here. As I look at the extractor in the frame - I lightly sanded the top and bottom sides. Turned extractor over, sanded "shelfs" A&B. On the Claw itself, I took a small stone to clean up the ends that wrap over the case. Good, cleaning, lube and reassemble. Like another Post said, someone needs to be charging Glock for this fix. This fix is better than sliced bread.
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Old 02-20-2012, 13:02   #37
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Let's see here, how did that Kimber external extractor 1911 fix thing go?
Don't know about Kimber but the S&W 1911s seem to work without problems and using the grip safety to lift the firing pin block instead of the trigger is a nice improvement. You have to wonder what Colt was doing all those years!

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Old 02-20-2012, 13:10   #38
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As a glock armorer, I would definitely be inclined to do this. I'm not the typical "part replacer" that was mentioned earlier in the thread. I was literally upstairs putting together a long range precision rifle I am building. I was just fitting the action to a bottom metal.

Anyways, it seems as though (I for one dont have any issues with any of my glocks and never had) that a light polish of the extractor will happen with use. So, I for one don't see an issue with polishing it but, it may shorten its life depending how much you remove. When we are talking 1000ths of an inch between working 100% and having erratic ejection, I'd just say be careful. A little will probably go a long way in terms of getting where you want it to be.

If your ejection is all over the place and you already replaced the extractor/ejector/rsa/ whatever else is said to be causing it. A little fine tune polish certainly couldn't hurt. I would do mine but, my glocks fire great, eject great, and work like glock perfection should. Maybe its my hand loads (wait did I just say that out loud)
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Old 02-20-2012, 13:10   #39
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English, I agree with your thoughts. The problem is, over here in the colonies we don't understand your thought process when it is explained that concisely. You need to dumb down your way of expressing your thoughts for us.
Another 2 to 300 years of evolution should do it. http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/s...nsupergrin.gif

Actually, some things have a limit to how far you can dumb them down. I am not in a position to work on this problem practically and none of my Glocks have this problem. I am fairly sure that your solution is correct. If the movement of the extractor to grip the rim is blocked by this shoulder before it is pressing on the rim, then a stronger spring won't help.

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Old 02-20-2012, 13:20   #40
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Another 2 to 300 years of evolution should do it. http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/s...nsupergrin.gif

Actually, some things have a limit to how far you can dumb them down. I am not in a position to work on this problem practically and none of my Glocks have this problem. I am fairly sure that your solution is correct. If the movement of the extractor to grip the rim is blocked by this shoulder before it is pressing on the rim, then a stronger spring won't help.

English

Agreed. But removing enough metal to get better and more complete contact with the case head and adding a slightly stronger spring should.
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