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Old 02-23-2012, 03:10   #1426
kirgi08
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Yep.'08.
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Old 02-23-2012, 04:47   #1427
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Originally Posted by lawman800 View Post
This topic has been relevant since the leftists saw fit to make government the agent for promulgating equality in society when it has no business doing such things.

The New Deal started this whole thing and the Progressive Agenda has made handouts pretty much the central issue of this century. It wasn't ever what if the handouts run out, but just a matter of when. You cannot sustain any society when you have one group being able to vote themselves money off the backs of another group. It's a matter of time when everything collapses. It has never failed to come to fruition.
Exactly. Then again there is a first time for everything and if you have a global economy made of of indiidual countries that are willing to perpetually ignore the numbers (red/negatives) the system doesn't actually collapse because it is one massive illusion to begin with...no? I'm thinking it's only when supplies start to run out that the trouble starts/shows itself.

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Old 02-23-2012, 05:09   #1428
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Yep, I think about this more then I do the Bird Flu, or Natural Disasters. With our mounting debt it's only a matter of time before the government either stops sending the checks or goes totally bankrupt.
I do too but we won't go bankrupt and the checks won't stop coming. We will just print more and more money which will buy less and less stuff. Now that is what will piss off the people receiving government checks.
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:31   #1429
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I do too but we won't go bankrupt and the checks won't stop coming. We will just print more and more money which will buy less and less stuff. Now that is what will piss off the people receiving government checks.
Yes, it is very easy these days - it is electronic money - the government doesn't even need to buy paper or ink.
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:38   #1430
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Originally Posted by UneasyRider View Post
I do too but we won't go bankrupt and the checks won't stop coming. We will just print more and more money which will buy less and less stuff. Now that is what will piss off the people receiving government checks.
Playing devil's advocate here....what is they move the value of the checks right along/up with the inflation?

Seems like those people wouldn't really care then no?

-Emt1581
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Old 02-23-2012, 06:17   #1431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emt1581 View Post
Playing devil's advocate here....what is they move the value of the checks right along/up with the inflation?

Seems like those people wouldn't really care then no?

-Emt1581
.gov will never admit to the true inflation numbers
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Old 02-23-2012, 06:28   #1432
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Originally Posted by emt1581 View Post
Playing devil's advocate here....what is they move the value of the checks right along/up with the inflation?

Seems like those people wouldn't really care then no?

-Emt1581
This won't happen until other countries devalue our currency as well. What we will see is that there isn't anything to buy if you print too much money so the government will push the checks up a little while prices rise much more and inventory gets scarce. Unless of course we are different than every other country who has ever gone through this.

Economics = the allocation of scarce resourses. The currency has already died, the markets have not recognized it yet. It's like watching someone juggle... just waiting for them to drop a bowling pin or whatever.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:34   #1433
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Nothing to see here. . Move along. .

(today's headlines)
- America's Per Capita Government Debt Worse Than Greece...
- HALF of Americans don't pay income tax despite crippling gov't debt...
- Gas Prices Jump 10 Cents -- in Two Minutes!
...Yet, Crude inventories at highest level since 2001...
- US Debt To GDP Passes 101%

Yet the stock market is up today. . . .
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:33   #1434
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Originally Posted by wjv View Post
Nothing to see here. . Move along. .

(today's headlines)
- America's Per Capita Government Debt Worse Than Greece...
- HALF of Americans don't pay income tax despite crippling gov't debt...
- Gas Prices Jump 10 Cents -- in Two Minutes!
...Yet, Crude inventories at highest level since 2001...
- US Debt To GDP Passes 101%

Yet the stock market is up today. . . .
Here's the real number to watch:

GDP is about 15 Trillion
Yearly deficit is 1.3 Trillion plus loan guarentees.
Increase in GDP is quoted as 2% or $300 Billion
But the yearly deficit counted as part of the GDP!
That's roughly 9 percent negative GDP less the shown increase = negative 7% GDP and we have been there for almost 3 years!
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Old 02-24-2012, 17:57   #1435
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2007- 23 million on food stamps
2012- 46 million on food stamps

In 5 years! Scary!
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Old 02-24-2012, 17:59   #1436
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Originally Posted by UneasyRider View Post
Here's the real number to watch:

GDP is about 15 Trillion
Yearly deficit is 1.3 Trillion plus loan guarentees.
Increase in GDP is quoted as 2% or $300 Billion
But the yearly deficit counted as part of the GDP!
That's roughly 9 percent negative GDP less the shown increase = negative 7% GDP and we have been there for almost 3 years!
This is certainly not a jab at you Uneasy...you're a good guy. But isn't it funny that even with all the FACTS there is still NO WAY to predict when reality will set in and all hell will break loose??

-Emt1581
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Old 02-24-2012, 18:09   #1437
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Originally Posted by emt1581 View Post
This is certainly not a jab at you Uneasy...you're a good guy. But isn't it funny that even with all the FACTS there is still NO WAY to predict when reality will set in and all hell will break loose??

-Emt1581
No problem EMT, it amazes me that the entire world is still pretending that everything is just fine too.
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Old 02-24-2012, 18:13   #1438
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No problem EMT, it amazes me that the entire world is still pretending that everything is just fine too.
This might sound really stupid, but if you get rid of numbers and currency...I think we ARE fine. I mean there is clean water, food, medicine, etc... The only shortage seems to be in (backed) currency.

Or am I missing something and we actually are, as a species/planet, running out of something vital to our survival?

Again, easier said than done, but other than numbers and money...what's the problem? Maybe this is why reality does not set in and people are not rioting over computer figures....because their basic needs are still being met.

-Emt1581
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Old 02-24-2012, 18:39   #1439
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Originally Posted by emt1581 View Post
This might sound really stupid, but if you get rid of numbers and currency...I think we ARE fine. I mean there is clean water, food, medicine, etc... The only shortage seems to be in (backed) currency.

Or am I missing something and we actually are, as a species/planet, running out of something vital to our survival?

Again, easier said than done, but other than numbers and money...what's the problem? Maybe this is why reality does not set in and people are not rioting over computer figures....because their basic needs are still being met.

-Emt1581
Same here... I think it's like the 1920's were super heated but the 1930's were well... toast.
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Old 02-24-2012, 18:42   #1440
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Same here... I think it's like the 1920's were super heated but the 1930's were well... toast.
Super heated as in successful?

Again, I'm thinking the only thing that is wrong are the numbers are soooo far out of whack. Otherwise everything else is fine in the tangible sense.

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Old 02-24-2012, 19:06   #1441
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Same here... I think it's like the 1920's were super heated but the 1930's were well... toast.
The 1920s were like today - financial markets did well but the American worker did not do well. The things that did well were also similar to today - radio - that was the social media of the day.

Most Americans still lived in rural areas - that didn't change until the late '50s or early 60s

Farms were hit hard and were depressed. Manufacturing was in a decline.
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Old 02-24-2012, 19:22   #1442
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Super heated as in successful?

Again, I'm thinking the only thing that is wrong are the numbers are soooo far out of whack. Otherwise everything else is fine in the tangible sense.

-Emt1581
I think it's like the "Great Depression" in that if you have a decent job everything is ok at the moment, but if you don't... you are really screwed.
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Old 02-24-2012, 20:10   #1443
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I think it's like the "Great Depression" in that if you have a decent job everything is ok at the moment, but if you don't... you are really screwed.
If you had a job during the "GD" you did OK because the value of the $ you earned was increasing in value - you could buy more with the $ as time went on. Even then wages were reduced.

There are so many differences between the 20s/30s and now for the working person that the comparisons only have value in specific situations.

One is women in the workforce. In the 20s/30s home keeping was a full time job and one man's salary could support a family. Now it take 2 people working to keep a family's finances above water.

Now, if you have a job you are getting slammed by, wages stagnating while benefit, energy and food costs are going up. So, the value of the $ you are earning is going down. Still better than not having a job.

By my way of thinking between now and 2016 we may hit the bottom. But we will never get back to the economic environment we had previously.
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Old 02-24-2012, 20:15   #1444
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Slight subject change...

Something I'm finding interesting is that my junk e-mail is no longer filled with male enhancements and credit card/loan offers....now it's social security and food stamp offers...

-Emt1581
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Old 02-24-2012, 21:14   #1445
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Quote:
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Slight subject change...

Something I'm finding interesting is that my junk e-mail is no longer filled with male enhancements and credit card/loan offers....now it's social security and food stamp offers...

-Emt1581
Odd. I never have received male enhancement emails.

I wonder why?

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Old 02-24-2012, 21:16   #1446
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Odd. I never have received male enhancement emails.

I wonder why?

Oh the places I could go with that!!!...

-Emt1581
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Old 02-25-2012, 06:56   #1447
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Originally Posted by wjv View Post
Nothing to see here. . Move along. .

(today's headlines)
- America's Per Capita Government Debt Worse Than Greece...
- HALF of Americans don't pay income tax despite crippling gov't debt...
- Gas Prices Jump 10 Cents -- in Two Minutes!
...Yet, Crude inventories at highest level since 2001...
- US Debt To GDP Passes 101%

Yet the stock market is up today. . . .
Hello Bill.

If I may suggest: The stock market is priced in dollars, which means that during inflation everything that is priced in dollars is worth more "dollars". The stock market going higher under the conditions you listed makes perfect sense.
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Old 02-25-2012, 08:33   #1448
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augering in

would be a miracle if U.S. economy survives for 8 more years...... brace for impact......
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:42   #1449
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would be a miracle if U.S. economy survives for 8 more years...... brace for impact......
How do you see it unfolding?
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Old 04-13-2012, 15:39   #1450
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