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Old 03-10-2012, 16:24   #1
SeventyGTX
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Who to go to if a gun deal goes bad with a cop?

Hey people, I recently agreed to do a trade deal with an officer (supposedly) from another state off a different forum, my handgun for his. We exchanged FFL's and I sent my weapon off to his FFL, and he said in email his was sent off as well. Although he said he forgot the tracking number (Priority Mail), but can get it if I wanted it. I figured I would wait a few days then worry about it. Well, he picked mine up yesterday, but my FFL has not seen a thing.

I decided to call his FFL today to find out when they shipped his firearm, and they said he picked mine up yesterday, but never dropped off one to ship. His last email to me clearly stated he shipped it early last week.

He says his hours are unpredictable and he works nights, which I completely understand. The problem I have is, he said in email his was shipped off the same day as I did mine. Yet his FFL says they did not ship a gun from him. I emailed him yesterday, as well as left a message on the number he gave me asking him to explain. As of yet, I have not heard back.

If this whole things falls apart, and I never hear from him again, who should I go to for help? I think I know the PD he works for, would I contact ATF, his department, or ???

I really apologize if this is inappropriate for this forum. If anyone wants to give me some private advice, feel free to pm me. I just don't have any idea what to do if I am indeed getting burned. Hopefully this is all a big misunderstanding. I am giving the benefit of the doubt right now.

Last edited by SeventyGTX; 03-10-2012 at 16:47..
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Old 03-10-2012, 16:46   #2
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i would contact the pd where the ffl is located. give them all the info you have on him as well as the ffl's info. the ffl will obviously have the info on how to get to him.
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Old 03-10-2012, 17:03   #3
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Thanks Papajohn. Fortunately, shortly after I posted this, the officer called me. He told me the name of the person he gave the gun to and will find out what happened Monday morning as they are closed Sundays. He apologized over and over for his FFLs ineptness. What a relief, I was hoping this is how it would turn out.
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Old 03-10-2012, 17:04   #4
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If you know his PD, call him and ask him "hey, where's my gun?" Lay out what you got and what you're going to do if you get no satisfaction.

And if you still get no satisfaction, start by filing a police report with your local PD that your gun was stolen via a false pretense larceny/scam.
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Old 03-10-2012, 17:30   #5
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Much depends on your State of residence. If you send you firearm to another FFL for sale, the FFL should be able to tell you if the firearm is still there, transferred to the other party, etc. If the FFL is not an honorable person and some are not... well, it becomes that much more difficult.

Since you voluntarily entered into a contract to trade/exchange property, there would not be any police intervention in my State if you came to us. Your State may be different. You might be able to get the LE agency where the other party lives to act.

People advocate calling BATFE, but they are not in the business in enforcing civil contracts [which you entered into by agreeing to sell or trade personal property], but if the FFL is dirty, they could elect to perform a regulatory inspection to determine the paperwork trail.

You may have to resort to hiring an attorney to enforce your property rights in the State of the other party.

These problems are why many will only do face to face sales and require ID and CWP/CCW etc. permits. Be prepared to be patient and have to resort to plenty of calls to get your property back.

P.S. No one is ever a cop, firefighter, or military until you see ID and have verified it.
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Old 03-10-2012, 17:34   #6
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I recently sold a gun and didn't get a tracking number from my ffl. I started getting nervous when the buyer said that the gun hadn't arrived after a week and his ffl said he didn't have it. After nearly two weeks we were able to get the tracking number and his FFL had it the whole time.
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Old 03-10-2012, 18:21   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanIhaveGasCash View Post
I recently sold a gun and didn't get a tracking number from my ffl. I started getting nervous when the buyer said that the gun hadn't arrived after a week and his ffl said he didn't have it. After nearly two weeks we were able to get the tracking number and his FFL had it the whole time.
That seems to be a problem everywhere. I also recently sold a guy a PM9 and it took a week for my FFL to get it shipped. I had a tracking number that never showed anything for a week.
This particular problem I posted had me really worried because I had called his FFL and they said he never shipped a gun. After talking to him on the phone, he dealt with the manager who was not in today when I called. So, she must have stashed it somewhere and forgot about it........hopefully.

Last edited by SeventyGTX; 03-10-2012 at 18:22..
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Old 03-10-2012, 18:43   #8
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I didnt think an unlicensed sender could use USPS to mail a handgun...
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Old 03-10-2012, 18:58   #9
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Originally Posted by SeventyGTX View Post
That seems to be a problem everywhere. I also recently sold a guy a PM9 and it took a week for my FFL to get it shipped.
Damn, how many guns do you sell/trade/exchange in any given year? Sounds like you need to get your own FFL license.
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Old 03-10-2012, 23:31   #10
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Old 03-11-2012, 05:50   #11
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How do you know he's an LEO?
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Old 03-11-2012, 06:32   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventyGTX View Post
The problem I have is, he said in email his was shipped off the same day as I did mine. Yet his FFL says they did not ship a gun from him. I emailed him yesterday, as well as left a message on the number he gave me asking him to explain. As of yet, I have not heard back.
And? Why would he pay a dealer to ship a firearm to you? Only the receiver has to be an FFL, not the shipper. Maybe he just UPSed it to your FFL like anybody else would.
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:59   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
And? Why would he pay a dealer to ship a firearm to you? Only the receiver has to be an FFL, not the shipper. Maybe he just UPSed it to your FFL like anybody else would.
IIRC, from my days as an FFL, there are a few retarded states that mandate ANY handgun being shipped, must go through an FFL. Some carriers require that, although I don't remember which ones offhand. Federal law is obviously different, but I know there's at least one or two states that mandate such silliness.

Its easy to forget the rampant stupidity concerning guns, when you live in one of the most gun friendly states in the union. Speaking of, have you seen HB 500?
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Old 03-11-2012, 08:37   #14
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IIRC, from my days as an FFL, there are a few retarded states that mandate ANY handgun being shipped, must go through an FFL. Some carriers require that, although I don't remember which ones offhand. Federal law is obviously different, but I know there's at least one or two states that mandate such silliness.
You can ship through UPS without an FFL, just not Fed Ex or USPS. I didn't know there were states that required outgoing guns to go through an FFL.
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Old 03-11-2012, 17:52   #15
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Quote:
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And? Why would he pay a dealer to ship a firearm to you? Only the receiver has to be an FFL, not the shipper. Maybe he just UPSed it to your FFL like anybody else would.
The main reason my FFL quit receiving firearms from private parties is because some either didn't know or ignored the laws. Things like including a copy of the FFLs license and their drivers license, or shipping through the USPS.
If I would have pushed the issue, I'm sure they would have accepted his firearm. But the officer that I am dealing with said he has no problem going through his FFL.

Fortunately for he and I, both our FFL's charge reasonable insured shipping fees. I paid $20, he paid $25 total.

To the person that asked how I know if he is a LEO, bottom line is I don't. I went off his word and the officers badge he had in the other forum I go to. I did a net search on his name and city, and he had a couple of awards presented to him, so the name is legit for sure. I was more worried about something like identity theft.......someone posing as him. But it's all a moot point now as he should get everything cleared up tomorrow.

Last edited by SeventyGTX; 03-11-2012 at 19:10..
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Old 03-12-2012, 18:25   #16
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You can ship through UPS without an FFL, just not Fed Ex or USPS. I didn't know there were states that required outgoing guns to go through an FFL.

Bren, a lot of people do it through their FFL as to avoid the "rape" by UPS & Fedex for overnight fees on handguns. Their local FFL "books' the gun & then ships it for them to the other party's FFL as the U.S. Postal Service only charges about $20 or less to the FFL. If the person is a good customer many FFL's do this as a courtesy as it really garners Brownie points and saves the customer huge bucks.

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Old 03-12-2012, 19:00   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
And? Why would he pay a dealer to ship a firearm to you? Only the receiver has to be an FFL, not the shipper. Maybe he just UPSed it to your FFL like anybody else would.
This is what I don't understand... .There's no reason for the shipper to use an FFL, only the receiver
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Old 03-13-2012, 03:50   #18
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I really miss the days when the Museum of Natural History had enough faith in the USPS to mail the Hope Diamond (IIRC) by Registered Mail.
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:46   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
You can ship through UPS without an FFL, just not Fed Ex or USPS. I didn't know there were states that required outgoing guns to go through an FFL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyGunFreak View Post
This is what I don't understand... .There's no reason for the shipper to use an FFL, only the receiver

Pennsylvania requires use of a FFL for all inter-state handgun transactions. NY also requires an FFL (or LE agency) to move guns in/out of the state, but has no requirement that the gun must come into the state from an FFL at the origin.

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Old 03-13-2012, 07:07   #20
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Hope it works out!

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Old 03-13-2012, 11:09   #21
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If it does not get resolved, report it in detail to his Chief, or the high Sheriff, and a complaint to your local BATFE office about this law enforcement officer. Hope there is a reasonable explanation for the dilemma.
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