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Old 04-07-2012, 00:50   #51
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It would be a challenge I'm sure.
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Old 04-07-2012, 00:53   #52
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You most certainly can turn over your gun. Heck, sell them all now and you won't have to worry about it. History does have a way of repeating itself.....

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/lexington.htm

The British marched on Lexington [on its way to Concord] to confiscate "illegal weapons" from citizens and from what we would today refer to as an Armory. OurConstitution was drafted 15 months I believe after this event. Thank God for those "rebels...", err I mean "terrorists....", I mean PATRIOTS!!

The minutemen were really a mostly a bunch of farmers. In Lexington there were only about 40 minutemen assembled facing 700 British. The British sent them fleeing and they all ran off with their weapons. Marching on to Concord the British encounted more armed American citizens defending the bridge into Concord. Thinking this wasn't going to be easy the British turned and went back to Boston.

All along the way back to Boston the Americans sniped at the British till an estimated 250 British troops were killed AND they didn't get the weapons. Like I stated, I think it was 15 months later that our current constitution was drafted.

They would have to declare martial law across entire regions and I still do not see it working. But you most certainly can hand over your firearms.
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:31   #53
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All well and good in theory, and in an internet forum, but is that what happened during the Katrina confiscations?

No. People just forked them over. Some got roughed up, and then forked them over. I'm not aware of anyone going to the mat, resisting.

We all talk a good game, but when you're looking down the barrel of your own military that you pay...you saying you'd fight them, rather than hand it over? I think that's just internet wind.

I think the men that would fight are three generations gone, or more.
If anyone did, I doubt we would ever find out.

If everyone resisted confiscation with force, the attempted confiscation would end very quickly, but that doesn't make it any easier for the first people up.
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Old 04-07-2012, 02:12   #54
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So some falsely claim. The Constitution says otherwise.
Where does it say that? I've never seen anything in the constitution that claims it supersedes martial law.

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UN peacekeepers, NATO troops, foreign military, and contractors would have no such moral trouble disarming and killing Americans. IF martial law were ever declared, it would have to be foreign troops doing the dirty work, because, as others have said, there are simply not enough domestic military and police to do the job effectively.

And during Katrina, there were foreign contractors protecting the assets of the ultra wealthy - one company that was employing security in N.O was Isreali I believe. Blackwater, now called Academi, was down there as well. They even went in and began operations one whole week before they got a government contract from FEMA.
Nato/UN/foreign military would have way more trouble than any US military force would ever have disarming US civilians.

Its harder to shoot a countryman and brother than an invading force.

While people may grumble and be upset about handing over guns to the military/police ala Katrina, a oh say Frenchmen or Italian is much more likely to get shot in the face.
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Old 04-07-2012, 02:25   #55
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LOL. No not me. I can't imagine me fighting against a horde of army guys. I'll just hand my gun over.
That kind of says it all, no? The key to avoiding this kind of BS and that is exactly what it is, is to not be where you are expected. In other words be gone before to police show up. Nationwide martial law is a total joke, where is the manpower to enforce it EVERYWHERE coming from???
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:05   #56
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Yes, they have a partial list of guns purchased, you "may" own from FFL's.

That in no way shape or form, constitutes any sort of even decent information to make a guestiment of how many guns you ACTUALLY own.
No, but it suppoorts your place on the "houses to search" list.

Heck, we had a case here, that I only know about because the inmate sued us over his parole revocation, where a parolee's wife, all alone, went to a gun shop and bought a gun. The next day, ATF was in the parole officer's office wanting to search the guy's house. So much for those background checks that aren't being used for that purpose or communictaed to other agencies. I still don't know how they knew she was a parolee's wife. (BTW, guy was found not guilty in federal court, but had his parole revoked anyhow)
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:40   #57
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UN peacekeepers, NATO troops, foreign military, and contractors would have no such moral trouble disarming and killing Americans. IF martial law were ever declared, it would have to be foreign troops doing the dirty work, because, as others have said, there are simply not enough domestic military and police to do the job effectively.

And during Katrina, there were foreign contractors protecting the assets of the ultra wealthy - one company that was employing security in N.O was Isreali I believe. Blackwater, now called Academi, was down there as well. They even went in and began operations one whole week before they got a government contract from FEMA.
Please have the decency to not sweep with such a broad brush. As a contractor I would never do what you say I have no moral trouble doing. We are not all one living entity. We are individuals. I am so tired of contractors being wrapped up in such a bad light as if we are all of one mind.
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:44   #58
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Blackwater is not called Academi. Their name is now Z. They're fairly close to where I reside right now, just over the NC/VA line. As for my guns being taken, let them. They'll only get the ones they know about or can find. Good luck on getting all of them. Some places they are hidden are so good that I surprised myself with coming up with that particular location.
You are incorrect friend. Their name is not Z. It is now Academi. It was Xe (pronounced Z) But has been changed.

The company has been broken up a bit. I believe the training side is still called Blackwater U.S. Training Center, and there may or may not still be a Blackwater Air. There is /was a Greystone who did some security work but the remaining bulk of the security side as far as I know is Academi.
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Old 04-07-2012, 07:59   #59
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Handguns, lots and lots of handguns. Easy to hide either on your person or in a hole covered by dirt. Can be used for defense or offense to obtain other guns. Handguns are the answer.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:24   #60
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So some falsely claim. The Constitution says otherwise.
So the people who would ignore the COTUS by confiscating firearms, such as post-Katrina, would be inclined to care whether or not the COTUS was being violated?

The COTUS requires those in charge respect it for it to be effective.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:34   #61
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Good reason to not live in a large city. I don't see gun confiscation happening in small towns as easily as large citys. Especially "Naorlans". Our "leaders" ie Sheriff, Mayor, ect.. know they don't need to disarm their citizens. We are all on the same side.
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:07   #62
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It'll probably go this way:

1. POTUS will get on national TV and announce a mandate that everyone must show up to collection stations and surrender their firearms by such and such dates or face charges. There will probably be sheeple treats given out at those sites to encourage participation.

2. After the collection sites close. there will be public service messages on all forms of media portraying firearms as evil and anyone suspected of owning one should be reported. Rewards will be given to those that rat out their neighbors. Collection sites will reopen occasionally offering amnesty to those who decide to turn them in.

3. Random door to door searches will be conducted via joint ops by police/national guard.

There will be alot of people that willingly hand them over and there will be small bloodbaths here and there. To the Gov and gun grabbers it won't be about getting them all at once, they're happy with getting them outlawed and taking chunks of them at a time till they get them all.

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Old 04-07-2012, 09:20   #63
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It'll probably go this way:

1. POTUS will get on national TV and announce a mandate that everyone must show up to collection stations and surrender their firearms by such and such dates or face charges. There will probably be sheeple treats given out at those sites to encourage participation.

2. After the collection sites close. there will be public service messages on all forms of media portraying firearms as evil and anyone suspected of owning one should be reported. Rewards will be given to those that rat out their neighbors. Collection sites will reopen occasionally offering amnesty to those who decide to turn them in.

3. Random door to door searches will be conducted via joint ops by police/national guard.

There will be alot of people that willingly hand them over and there will be small bloodbaths here and there. To the Gov and gun grabbers it won't be about getting them all at once, they're happy with getting them outlawed and taking chunks of them at a time till they get them all.
This seems like a likely scenario to me. They will play the public against the public. They'll make it all seem reasonable and logical, and enough ppl will go along with it to make it too late. Alas, Babylon!
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:57   #64
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That kind of says it all, no? The key to avoiding this kind of BS and that is exactly what it is, is to not be where you are expected. In other words be gone before to police show up. Nationwide martial law is a total joke, where is the manpower to enforce it EVERYWHERE coming from???
Yes it does. The reason I said this is because I am no internet Rambo. No individual in it's right mind will start a gun fight against a highly trained horde of military personal, ala' Molon Labe. I mean that would be stupid because you will get killed, period. And who is gonna take care of your loved ones when you are gone, huh? No one because you got killed because of a foolish mistake. I hand my gun over and I still will be armed. If they come and knock on your door, make them happy so that they move on. All you need is brains my friends.
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:18   #65
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Yes it does. The reason I said this is because I am no internet Rambo. No individual in it's right mind will start a gun fight against a highly trained horde of military personal, ala' Molon Labe. I mean that would be stupid because you will get killed, period. And who is gonna take care of your loved ones when you are gone, huh? No one because you got killed because of a foolish mistake. I hand my gun over and I still will be armed. If they come and knock on your door, make them happy so that they move on. All you need is brains my friends.
I think 6 million plus Jews died about 70+ years ago with this kind of thinking....
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:35   #66
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Please have the decency to not sweep with such a broad brush. As a contractor I would never do what you say I have no moral trouble doing. We are not all one living entity. We are individuals. I am so tired of contractors being wrapped up in such a bad light as if we are all of one mind.
Agreed.
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:51   #67
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I'll just hand my gun over.
Did it hurt, or did the doctor numb you up down there first?
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:06   #68
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Please have the decency to not sweep with such a broad brush. As a contractor I would never do what you say I have no moral trouble doing. We are not all one living entity. We are individuals. I am so tired of contractors being wrapped up in such a bad light as if we are all of one mind.
If you caught the jist of my post, I was referring to the multitudes of FOREIGN contractors that operate throughout the various conflict areas of the world. My supposition was that a combined amount of contractors and foreign military would be able to enforce martial law, at least to some extent. I'm not sure how much simpler I could have made it.
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:21   #69
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The jist of my response was to suggest that you would NOT have as easy a time as you may think finding civilian contractors to do the dirty work of the govt. At least when it comes to subverting the COTUS.
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:50   #70
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I think 6 million plus Jews died about 70+ years ago with this kind of thinking....
I'd submit that's the exact thinking of most American gun owners today. Easy to talk tough on the internet, but I can virtually guarantee the vast majority of gun owners would not die to keep their guns...when they were faced with that actual choice. It's a pleasant fantasy, but soft modern Americans are not hard ancient Spartans. Oh sure, you'll boetch and moan and vote, but you won't actually resist.

I'm a little irritated everybody jumping down Austria's throat, just because he's being honest. I don't believe the critics would really choose death before disarmament.

So far, there has been no sufficiently large groundswell of resistance to bigger and bigger government, to be truly effective. It's been bred out of us. Open your eyes...the most audacious big government meddler ever is confident he'll be re-elected in a walk. He's sitting on a massive pot of money to run a fabulous propaganda machine. He's as much said he's waiting for re-election before pursuing his REAL agenda, at which point he's invulnerable. So don't be shocked if you bitter clingers are told to hand them over soon. And...you very likely will.
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:51   #71
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The jist of my response was to suggest that you would NOT have as easy a time as you may think finding civilian contractors to do the dirty work of the govt. At least when it comes to subverting the COTUS.
Perhaps I should elaborate on my opinion a little. Think about it: every president since H. Bush has, at one time or another, claimed that they derive their authority from the UN. Now, does it seem so far-fetched that the UN could pass a resolution that would allow for extensive 'peacekeeping' efforts in countries that have been affected by calamities like economic collapse, wide spread pandemics, etc.? If UN members each donated men and supplies, along with coordination with the U.S. government, I do believe that a very substantial force could be created.

Not once did I ever say it would be easy. But judging by the way that I have seen people react to foreign contractors, I think that any coordinated resistance, at least in urban areas, would be very limited. Besides, it would not be prudent, at least at first, to take over rural areas. Only key infrastructure would need to be seized for our hypothetical 'victory' to take place.
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Old 04-07-2012, 13:01   #72
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To be realistic, I don't think there are too many countries with enough "competent" people to fill the ranks of any so called contractor force. The field is predominantly staffed by countries such as the U.S., U.K., S. Africa, Australia, and maybe a few French here and there. All the other countries that I have seen with any kind of armed contracting force are far inferior to anything you and I are used to. They simply would not be very formidable IMO.

Not to mention that the U.N. can hardly find its ass with both of its hands let alone coordinate a force which you are alluding to. My opinion of course.
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Old 04-07-2012, 13:21   #73
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To be realistic, I don't think there are too many countries with enough "competent" people to fill the ranks of any so called contractor force. The field is predominantly staffed by countries such as the U.S., U.K., S. Africa, Australia, and maybe a few French here and there. All the other countries that I have seen with any kind of armed contracting force are far inferior to anything you and I are used to. They simply would not be very formidable IMO.

Not to mention that the U.N. can hardly find its ass with both of its hands let alone coordinate a force which you are alluding to. My opinion of course.
I agree with you. Thing is, I have seen how our citizens react to foreign contractors, and let me tell you, they became terrified. After Katrina, there was a certain group of Isreali security guys (I think they were called ISI?) operating in one of the wealthier suburbs of N.O and the locals were practically crapping their pants!
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Old 04-07-2012, 13:28   #74
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Georgia passed a law against firearms confiscation in the event of a Katrina like incident. Doesn't mean LEO and military won't violate your rights, but it is better than nothing.
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Old 04-07-2012, 13:45   #75
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the 80/20 rule, or maybe the 90/10 rule! Yes most gun owners will cave in, but its the 10% that will be a big problem for the jackbooted thugs! Not very many guns were actually seized in new orleans and I think a lot of the smarter prepper/patriot types had enough brains to leave when advised to do so. Look at the French Resistance in WW II. The French aren't known for being particularly warlike, but enough of them fought back using guerilla warfare to be a real problem for the Nazis. I really dont think the farmers at Lexington and Concord were super warlike either, but enough of them mustered out to fight. Approx. 90 million gun owners in U.S. 10 % equals nine million, even 5% equals 4.5 million if my math is right. 4.5 million armed guerilla fighters who know the terrain, know the locals and know hit and run and shoot and scoot, molotov cocktails, ersatz weapons, including the fertilizer and the ahem, other stuff. Bolster, I respectfully disagree.
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