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Old 03-26-2012, 20:01   #626
EmbryRiddle
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So tell us all... what was the US position on slavery when the war started in 1861.

what was the confederacy's position on slavery after the war?
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Old 03-26-2012, 20:08   #627
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what was the confederacy's position on slavery after the war?
After the war the Confederacy had no slavery.

After the war the Union still had slavery.
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Old 03-26-2012, 20:15   #628
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So tell us all... what was the US position on slavery when the war started in 1861.

The position of the Lincoln administration was the same as before the war started. That slavery where it already existed in the states was was a matter for the states to decide.

But that Congress did have the power to prevent the expansion of slavery into new territories.
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Old 03-26-2012, 20:24   #629
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After the war the Confederacy had no slavery.

After the war the Union still had slavery.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:54   #630
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Old 03-31-2012, 18:25   #631
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Because of the continued, creeping monopolization of private life by the federal state, which has been able to control the message and paint in inaccurate picture of what the CSA stood for and how it was different than what the federal state stood for. You should bear in mind that the 'north' didn't fight the 'south'. The federal government, with the support of the northern states, invaded the southern states. The first shots fired by the south were not aimed at "the north". They were aimed at the federal state. We're still paying for it to this day. This message has been controlled through state education for generations to where most have a completely inaccurate view of the 'civil war'.

Coincidently, I posted an article in another thread today that may help answer your questions:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo185.html

In 1961 Life magazine invited the Pulitzer Prize-winning poet and novelist Robert Penn Warren (author of All the King’s Men, and nineteen other novels) to record his thoughts on the meaning of the American “Civil War” on the centennial of that event. Warren responded with a long essay on the “symbolic value of the war” which was eventually published as a small book entitled The Legacy of the Civil War.

If Robert Penn Warren were to write this book today, he would be loudly condemned as an Enemy of Society (and a “Neo-Confederate&rdquo by all the usual defenders of the central state, from race-hustling “civil rights” activists to beltway “libertarians” and of course, the Lincoln Cult. For example, he wrote (p. 7) that in addition to slavery, there was a “tissue of causes” of the war, including the dispute over the constitutionality of secession, “the mounting Southern debt to the North, economic rivalry, Southern fear of encirclement, Northern ambitions, and cultural collisions . . .”

There were also economic causes of the war apart from slavery, Robert Penn Warren believed. “The Morrill tariff of 1861 actually preceded the firing on [Fort] Sumter, but it was the mark of Republican victory and an omen of what was to come; and no session of Congress in the next four years failed to raise the tariff.”

“Even more importantly,” Warren wrote, “came the establishment of a national banking system . . . and the issuing of national greenbacks . . . plus government subsidy [to corporations].” “Hamilton’s dream” of a large national debt was also realized, and “this debt meant a new tax relation of the citizen to the Federal government, including the new income tax” [introduced by the Lincoln administration for the first time].

“Out of the Civil War came the concept of total war,” i.e., the bombing, plundering, and mass murdering of civilians. In this regard, Warren quotes an 1862 speech by Lincoln in which he said, “The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present . . . . As our case is new, we must think anew, and act anew.” That is, “we” must abandon the law of nations with regard to the criminality of waging war on civilians, and “we” must abandon the U.S. Constitution as well, since it is one of the chief “dogmas of the quiet past.”

A major theme of The Legacy of the Civil War is that the war left the North (which is to say, the U.S. government) with “a treasury of virtue” (p. 54). This is the “psychological heritage” left to the North, and it is an insidious heritage, wrote Robert Penn Warren. “The Northerner, with his Treasury of Virtue, feels redeemed by history . . . . He has in his pocket, not a Papal indulgence peddled by some wandering pardoner of the Middle Ages, but an indulgence, a plenary indulgence, for all sins past, present, and future . . .” (emphasis added).

Thus, this “treasury of virtue” would become the excuse for why the U.S. government would commence a twenty-five year campaign of extermination against the Plains Indians just three months after Appomattox; shamelessly rob the treasury for the benefit of railroad corporations; plunder the South for a decade after the war under the laughable guise of “reconstruction”; murder more than 200,000 Filipinos who opposed being ruled by the American empire after having escaped from the imperialistic clutches of the Spanish empire; and enter a European war that was none of our business to supposedly “make the world safe for democracy.” It was all done in the name of virtue, freedom, and democracy, or so we are told.

Robert Penn Warren called this “moral narcissism” (p. 72). It is “a poor basis for national policy,” he wrote, but is the “justification” for “our crusades of 1917–1918 and 1941–1945 and our diplomacy of righteousness, with the slogan of unconditional surrender and universal spiritual rehabilitation for others” (emphasis added).

Posing as The Most Virtuous Humans to Ever Inhabit the Planet requires that many “facts get forgotten,” wrote Robert Penn Warren. For example:

It is forgotten that the Republican platform of 1860 pledged protection to the institution of slavery where it existed, and that the Republicans were ready, in 1861, to guarantee slavery in the South, as bait for a return to the Union. It is forgotten that in July, 1861, both houses of Congress, by an almost unanimous vote, affirmed that the War was waged not to interfere with the institutions of any state but only to maintain the Union. It is forgotten that the Emancipation Proclamation . . . was limited and provisional: slavery was to be abolished only in the seceded states and only if they did not return to the Union before the first of the next January (p. 61).

It must also be forgotten, wrote Warren, that most Northern states “refused to adopt Negro suffrage” and that Lincoln was as much a white supremacist as any man of his time. “It is forgotten that Lincoln, at Charlestown, Illinois, in 1858, formally affirmed: I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races.”

Thus, after so much history is forgotten, and much of the rest of it rewritten as a string of fairy tales, “the War appears, according to this doctrine of the Treasury of Virtue, as a consciously undertaken crusade so full of righteousness that there is enough overplus stored in Heaven, like the deeds of the saints, to take care of all small failings and oversights of the descendants of the crusaders, certainly unto the present generation” (p. 64).

Warren quotes the historian Samuel Eliot Morison as commenting that one effect of this Treasury of Virtue on his (Morison’s) native New England was that “In the generation to come that region would no longer furnish the nation with teachers and men of letters, but with a mongrel breed of politicians” obsessed with “profiteering” through their political connections.

Among other effects are that “the man of righteousness tends to be so sure of his own motives that he does not need to inspect consequences.” And, “the effect of the conviction of virtue is to make us lie automatically and awkwardly . . . and then in trying to justify the lie, lie to ourselves and transmute the lie into a kind of superior truth.” This, I would argue, is a perfect definition of so-called “Lincoln scholarship,” especially the Straussian variety.

Warren believed that most Americans are content with all of these lies about their own history, the results of “the manipulations of propaganda specialists, and their sometimes unhistorical history” (p. 79). For they “are prepared to see the Civil War as a fountainhead of our power and prestige among the nations” (p. 76). They have been good and brainwashed as obedient little nationalists, in other words, who place a very high value on the “prestige” of the American state as bully of the world.

This is yet another dire consequence of the war: Americans came to believe in Alexander Hamilton’s notion that the “prestige” of the state through its pursuit of “imperial glory” was a legitimate function of government. Limiting the role of government to the protection of God-given natural rights to life, liberty, and property became one of Lincoln’s “dogmas of the quiet past.”
Not really. The South was all for the enslavement of Africans and wished to extend slavery deep into Mexico and the Caribbean. The South was also for Free Trade (no taxes on imports).

So in a twisted manner we kinda have what the South wanted (all of us are enslaved and the govt supports Free Trade which equates to Globalism).

Kinda.

I'm from South Louisiana and I support this message. LOL!

For many here that would be the Confederate BATTLE Flag.


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Old 04-09-2012, 11:49   #632
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Recent posts on this forum show what the Union Army and Abraham Lincoln unleashed on America. Union sympathizers must all be proud of this...

http://m.worldstarhiphop.com/video.p...vPr5u24hufeGco

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1409900.html
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Old 04-09-2012, 17:15   #633
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Who do you want to blame this on? No dark skins at all.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/10958964/

Now this one is mixed up.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1412297.html
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Old 04-09-2012, 18:13   #634
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Old 04-09-2012, 18:17   #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natty View Post
Recent posts on this forum show what the Union Army and Abraham Lincoln unleashed on America. Union sympathizers must all be proud of this...

http://m.worldstarhiphop.com/video.p...vPr5u24hufeGco

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1409900.html
So you are saying if we still had slavery these things would not be happeing?
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Old 04-09-2012, 20:09   #636
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So you are saying if we still had slavery these things would not be happeing?

Instead these might be happening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Tur...lave_rebellion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:No...ve_revolts.png

The following pages on the English Wikipedia link to this file (pages on other projects are not listed):

1733 slave insurrection on St. John
1811 German Coast Uprising
1842 Slave Revolt in the Cherokee Nation
Baptist War
Chatham Manor
Creole case
Denmark Vesey
Gabriel Prosser
George Boxley
Haitian Revolution
John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry
Nat Turner's slave rebellion
New York Conspiracy of 1741
New York Slave Revolt of 1712
Pottawatomie Massacre
Slave rebellion
Stono Rebellion
Tacky's War
United States v. The Amistad
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:55   #637
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Old 05-09-2012, 18:55   #638
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Read the books.

Slavery was on its way out well before the war and would have passed PEACEFULLY from the scene as it did everywhere else in this hemisphere w/o a war that killed over 700k Americans (and maimed tens of thousands more) including thousands of innocent Southern civilians against then international law. I'm not counting the destruction of over half of the country, and hundreds of millions in 1860's dollars lost for nothing. Oh Yes! I guess there was SOMETHING. The wonton destruction of our Constutitional Republic, and states rights, and the installation of our current all powerfull anti constitutional government.

But it was all worth it to fight said war (supposedly to end something that was dying even then) 150 years ago, and is still costing us billions of dollars each year to solve the problems the war began.

You "won".

You got what you asked for.

What are you Lincoln lovers so upset about!!??

Dance and sing!

As the bar keep said to the horse who walked into his bar....

"Hey buddy! WHAT'S WITH THE LONG FACE?!

Oh. Bravo Chui....
BRAVO!!
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Old 05-09-2012, 19:34   #639
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If slavery was dying out, why did Article 1, section 9(4) of the Confederate Constitution guarantee the perpetuity of slavery?

"No bill of attainder, expostfacto law or law denying or impairing the right in negro slaves shall be passed."

Slavery was dying out. That is why the southern states seceded. That was the only way the rich plantation owners could guarantee it wouldn't.
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Old 05-09-2012, 21:00   #640
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Read the books Clancy. I have waited for ANYONE to refute the books I have offered concerning slavery and the South. Still no takers whatsoever. Big surprise.

Slavery was how cotton, corn, tobacco, et al ad infinitim was produced. It didn't start overnight nor would it be ended overnight w/o a major economic meltdown. There was no machnery capable of producing outside the factories in 1861, and if there were it wasn't available in the South. No one could have possibly forseen the extent of the power of steam and industrial revolution that was just begining to gain ground in 1861. Like it or not it was how things were done then. If there had been another way it would have been found and the slaves been sent back to wonderfull dear old Africa. This was 1861 not 2012. Its too bad today we don't have Warp Drive and photon torpedos, but we have to muddle through with what we have.

As I have stated here before, slavery existed here in the nation for 98 years before Lincoln's war. It existed before that back to the time of the colonies. It existed before that back into the dim mists of time for centuries. But only the South is condemned for it because the truth cannot be made known to the American people.

Of course the southern leaders gave their offical stamp of approval to slavery. They had no choice even if they had wanted otherwise. Thomas Jefferson stated that slavery was akin to holding a wolf by the ears. We couldn't hold on but were afraid to let go. The U.S. government treated freed blacks like chattle for decades after the war. They used them for what they wanted and cast them aside, but blacks are, on the whole, still on the U.S. government plantation. Funny how there is no hue and cry over that.

The only thing that twists everyones knickers is something that hasn't existed here in 145 years. Forget about the death, destruction, the trillions of dollars, our lost Constutitional republic, and our rights. That means nothing.

But you got what you wanted.
You got what you deserved.
I still don't see what the fuss is about.
Why the long face?

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Old 05-12-2012, 09:49   #641
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Unintended consequences

“But only the South is condemned for it because the truth cannot be made known to the American people. “

Everyone knows that slavery existed in the rest of the USA, but by 1861 it had been reduced or eliminated in much of the nation for all practical purposes, either by law or the pressures of society. The South is condemned for trying to extend slavery to the new territories and not seriously considering the termination of slavery within its borders. The South initiated a war to keep that institution going. Free labor was not on their list of options. There are many people alive today who remember the South trying to hold on to the vestiges of slavery with discriminatory Jim Crow laws, and the denial of civil rights by the states and local governments. Who actually gives a crap about a war that ended 150 years ago?


“Oh Yes! I guess there was SOMETHING. The wonton destruction of our Constutitional Republic, and states rights, and the installation of our current all powerfull anti constitutional government.”

So the war the confederacy began to keep some folks unjustly imprisoned resulted in the rest of us loosing some of our own freedoms? Way to Go Jeff Davis!
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Old 05-13-2012, 15:26   #642
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Slavery was on its way out well before the war and would have passed PEACEFULLY from the scene as it did everywhere else in this hemisphere
There is zero evidence of slavery dying out before the Civil war. one of the main items of contention of the Southern Slave states was the ban on slavery in the territories. They wanted slavery in the territories to create new slave states to maintain the political power of the slaveocracy.

Instead of your rote "read the books" crap. why don't you try actually providing some evidence to back up your fraudulent claims?
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Old 05-19-2012, 19:23   #643
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Just read the books Dragoon. What are you afraid of? Please disprove the Offical Records of the Rebellion. The diarys. The letters. The offical documents from both sides. The newspaper articles from the era. (Many from Northern editors, see "The Unpopular Mr. Lincoln".) The field reports of Union officers written during the commission of their war crimes. (See "War Crimes Against Southern Civilians"). All are recorded with volumes of indexes in the books I have recommended.
Then get back to me about my "crap" and lack of "evidence".

Just

read

the

books.

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Old 05-19-2012, 19:59   #644
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Just read the books Dragoon. What are you afraid of? Please disprove the Offical Records of the Rebellion. The diarys. The letters. The offical documents from both sides. The newspaper articles from the era. (Many from Northern editors, see "The Unpopular Mr. Lincoln".) The field reports of Union officers written during the commission of their war crimes. (See "War Crimes Against Southern Civilians"). All are recorded with volumes of indexes in the books I have recommended.
Then get back to me about my "crap" and lack of "evidence".

Just

read

the

books.

Gray_Rider
Where in the Official Records is there anything regarding the elimination of slavery in the Confederacy? I won't pretend to have read the whole thing, but I have read quite a bit of it. i do remember reading several reports from a ANV captain regarding the rounding up of free blacks in Pennsylvania and having them escorted under armed guard to Richmond so they could be sold into slavery.

I have read The South Was Right and found it poorly written and the documentation used to support the premise of the book laughable, not at all dissimilar to your argument.

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Old 05-25-2012, 16:14   #645
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"read the book is not a rebuttal or proof of anything.

I don't read books by amateur historians with an axe to grind and or an agenda. Apparently that is the only books YOU do read.

Your arguments are all classic neo confederate, Lost Cause, BS. and by your reading list I can see where you got them.

Here is a review of your latest "Great book".

http://www.cwbr.com/index.php?q=3907...&Submit=Search
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Old 05-25-2012, 16:33   #646
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It seems as if Gray Rider has gone into hiding.
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Old 05-26-2012, 10:03   #647
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This is unbelievable that you guys are still on this. but then again this Dragoon life must be this site.
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Old 06-02-2012, 15:49   #648
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Refute the offical records, the diaries, the eye witnesses accounts contained in the books I have offered. I'm still wating. Refusing to offer a rebuttal to any of the facts isn't a defense either. What are you afraid of? Please keep reading. (If you have read anything but South hating book reviews.) Anyone can point fingers at literature they don't like. The Lincoln Cult is very much alive, and is amazing the lengths they will go to to ignore the facts about their idol. Check the other books. I have given you a libarary to choose from. Please point out an example of poor writing or lack of facts in "The South Was Right!"

By Dragoon's own admission, his mind is closed and he doesn't have to listen to or read anthing he doesn't wish to hear about. That's his perogative. My posts aren't for him or others of such a mind set. I have provided VOLUMES of proof of my statements and views. Said reading contains still more volumes of historical fact with their own appendexes, notes, etc. from hundreds of other sorces. But all of it is counted as lies and fluff. (Typical liberal answer to anything they don't want to hear.)

I haven't been hiding, just sick of presenting the same facts over and over only to have the same boring "You-lost-get-over-it! There-isn't-such-thing-as-a-"Cause"-it-was-all-about-freeing-the-slaves. Lincoln-was-a-god-and-we-take-umberage-at-having-to-deal-with-non-PC-facts-to-the-contrary!
AND WE'RE NOT LISTENING ANYWAY
Nyaaaa!Nyaaaaaaa! Nyyaaaahhhhh!

We still warned you in '62, and we were right.
(And you know it. That's what all the fuss is about.)

Gray_Rider
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Old 06-02-2012, 16:26   #649
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Yes, I looked over the book review Dragoon. (Read the book for yourselves other dear readers. Make up our own minds.) At this instant, I don't have the time for a close obective look, but the last paragraph or two is 'telling'. (The part where the truth is taking hold and getting out to the public) Till reciently I never heard of Northern war crimes and Lincoln's trashing of the Constutition. Guess it either wasn't presented to me correctly or it wasn't covered at all in my history books. I suspect the latter. Nawww such things COULDN'T have been covered up or ignored. No wonder there is such a firestorm against anything Southern. Much like the evolution/creation mess that creation is winning. Evolutionists are practially swinging from the trees in panic, because people are starting to question the darwin theory!

Pishtosh and TWADDLE children!

Till later. Taa taaa.

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Old 06-03-2012, 01:59   #650
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Madness rules in the south, "God Will Vindicate" in your dreams.


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