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Old 04-09-2012, 16:39   #76
Arc Angel
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Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Excuse? You have all sorts of excuses for afraid to show the American public your support for the Second Amendment.

If you're not going to put a human face on "guns people", then don't be surprised when the American public become even more apathetic. But hey, whatever, you give your money to the NRA and pray that they can wine & dine the Congressmen. I'll continue to take my fight to the public.
You know, I was about to stop and drop off this thread; but your latest response is worthy of further reply; so, one more time:

(1) My purpose in carrying handguns is NOT to show the, 'American public' anything. In fact I don't want the, 'American public' to so much as suspect that I'm armed until I want them to know.

(2) Me thinks you're badly confused! There is no direct relationship between me carrying a concealed deadly weapon, and my intellectual support of America's Second Amendment Rights. I'm not a great educator. I'm a great gunman, instead. You need to start recognizing the difference.

(3) You've got two choices: (A) You can continue to delude yourself into believing that, somehow, you're advancing freedom by flaunting a deadly weapon in public. Which will, I assure you, alarm far more people and make them angry than ever win converts to your cause; or, (B) you can do the sensible and courteous thing by covering up. Which will, I equally assure you, make fewer enemies for the rest of us who deeply cherish our Second Amendments rights every bit as much as you do! It's just that we're a whole lot shrewder and don't feel the need to shove our rights or opinions down other people's throats -

WHETHER THEY WANT TO SHARE IN THEM, OR NOT.

I think you've forgotten what, 'time and space' you're actually living in! I never thought I'd say something like this; but, you need to watch more TV news!

(4) As for the NRA? I've been a member of this organization for almost 45 years; I actually lived through and participated in the, 'Cincinnati Revolt' way back in '76. Know what? As far as I'm concerned nothing ever really changed at the NRA. The Board was fiscally irresponsible, largely unmotivated, and self-serving then; and, from what I can see, everything's still the same today. I'm a Life Member; I'm a Certified Instructor; and I'm, also, one of the last people on this earth who'd ever give another dime to the shills at the NRA.

Gun Owners of America? Yes! Jews For The Preservation Of Firearms Ownership? Yes! But, not the NRA. I've lived too long; and I've got way too much life experience to ever fall for that Second Amendment, 'shell game' the NRA is playing again.
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Old 04-09-2012, 16:49   #77
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As the titles says, I have been carrying openly with w/ my level 2 retention serpa holster for the past 7 days. I carry a Gen 3 Glock 23 w/ pachmyr grip and tru glow night sights (green and yellow). My normal carry holster is a Crossbreed Supertuck Deluxe.

I live in the heart of Minneapolis so it is funny to see the different looks I received on occasion. However for the most part nobody really says a word or seems to bother to even notice I'm carrying. Which is surprising because I have gone about my daily routines the same (grocery store, liquor store, target, home depot, gander mountain) while just openly carrying. For me it's different.. It's a new thing so to speak... as I prefer concealment, but it's nice to mix it up once in a while. I had one person who asked me if I was an undercover police officer lol.

Anyways I just wanted to share that and also get feedback from others on their experiences from carrying concealed or openly.

-Alex
I see no tactical reason whatsoever to open carry. Why would you run the risk of some thug grabbing your gun from behind? Element of surprise is everything. Why not tip scale in your favor?
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Old 04-09-2012, 20:43   #78
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I open carry when traveling through Oregon to visit family. I live in SE WA, and have my permit for WA. Never got around to getting my non-resident permit for OR. I only make the trip a handful of times a year, and see no real need to go get my non-res permit.

Open carry suits me just fine. I notice the looks, the sideways glances, the whathaveyou. Not concerned. My wife points out that I've been seriously stared down while not looking. Whatever. I travel with my wife, and at least the two youngest of our three children. So I am in constant company with a three year old, an almost one year old, and half the time our seven year old.

Being accompanied by a trio of little girls most of the time does a lot to lessen the image of gun-totin' maniac out to play shoot'em up with the general public. I'm a dad first and foremost. It's my family, my life, my gun, my RIGHT.

It's usually other peoples kids who speak up about the fact that, "that guy has a gun!" "is that a real gun?" or "why do you have a gun?"

My answer. "Yeah, I have a gun. It's ok for the good guys to have guns."

Am I worried about "some thug grabbing my gun from behind"? No, because I pay attention to what the hell is going on around me.

And... holy hell... I know... I don't even use a retention holster!! OMG!!!
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Old 04-09-2012, 21:29   #79
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Interesting "Alice in Wonderland" type of thinking. Yes, we have the right to open carry, but don't use it or we will lose it. As long as we don't use it, we can keep that right.
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Old 04-09-2012, 21:29   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
You know, I was about to stop and drop off this thread; but your latest response is worthy of further reply; so, one more time:

(1) My purpose in carrying handguns is NOT to show the, 'American public' anything. In fact I don't want the, 'American public' to so much as suspect that I'm armed until I want them to know.
Well, you're definitely not a crusader for Second Amendment Rights.

Quote:
(2) Me thinks you're badly confused! There is no direct relationship between me carrying a concealed deadly weapon, and my intellectual support of America's Second Amendment Rights. I'm not a great educator. I'm a great gunman, instead. You need to start recognizing the difference.
Oh yes, I can definitely see the difference. That's the difference between your kind and my kind. Your kind thinks about yourselves. My kind thinks about the rest of the people and we're not afraid to fight for our rights to party.
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Old 04-09-2012, 22:24   #81
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I also live in the Minneapolis area but I am always afraid of open carry around here. Hennepin county is very liberal, and I don't want to scare some soccer moms into calling the police and reporting me as the man with a gun.

I do sometimes carry on the river when we go catfishing openly in a Serpa lv.2 with my Glock 26.
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:10   #82
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Well, you're definitely not a crusader for Second Amendment Rights.
No, not by your definition of the term, 'crusader' I'm not; but that's because I know something you have yet to learn. Unliked you I think twice before starting a war with strangers or, for the matter, turning myself into a negative example for the news media - Which given an opportunity will be quick to excoriate you and your kind.

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Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Oh yes, I can definitely see the difference. That's the difference between your kind and my kind. Your kind thinks about yourselves. My kind thinks about the rest of the people and we're not afraid to fight for our rights to party.
Wow, get this! Here I am being falsely accused by someone who doesn't even know me! I'd think it obvious that between the two of us, I am the one who takes other people's thoughts and feelings into consideration BEFORE he acts. You, on the other hand, show little or no compunction about starting public arguments that you can't possibly win. You imagine you're representing everybody's Second Amendment rights when, in reality, what you're doing is making enemies on both sides of the issue everywhere you go! Don't you get it? The larger mass of the general public doesn't want you exposing a deadly weapon in front of them and their families -

THAT'S NOT WHAT MOST PEOPLE WANT!

I carry two concealed pistols with me just about everywhere I go; and I, too, don't want you exposing your gun for public purview.

CARRYING A DEADLY WEAPON IS NOT ABOUT, 'PUBLIC EDUCATION'. IT'S ABOUT (SHREWD) SELF-DEFENSE, INSTEAD!

Don't you get it? You're not just demonstrating for your own Second Amendment rights; at the same time you're screwing around with mine! I don't want people over-sensitizing to the fact that I might be carrying a gun. Anyone who watches the TV news every night is, already, more than frightened enough over firearms!

HASN'T THE, RATHER OBVIOUS, THOUGHT OCCURRED TO YOU THAT YOU COULD ACCOMPLISH FAR MORE WITH A SECOND AMENDMENT SUPPORT EMBLEM PRINTED ACROSS YOUR CHEST OR SEWN ON YOUR SLEEVE THAN YOU'LL EVER BE ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH BY FLAUNTING A DEADLY WEAPON ON YOUR HIP? HASN'T IT!

Haven't you ever heard of, 'writing letters to the Editor'? Don't you know about, 'demonstrating with your vote'? Just one day in your life have you ever shown sufficient social conscience to set a positive example FOR your political ideals rather than against them? 'Shock and awe' might work inside a saturation bombing campaign; but it's an ill-advised method to use against other people whom you hope to persuade to your point-of-view.

Somehow, though, I think that you and your kind already know this. It's not really about, 'public education', now, is it! It's all about, 'Look at me and what I want'. Between the two of us which individual do you think an objective and impartial analysis would determine to be more social and civic-minded? You with your exposed pistol; or me with my polite smile and concealed handguns ....... Hmmmm?

You know I'm, kind of, laughing to myself while writing this. I've been reading your posts for years; and I'm aware that you like motorcycles. Has the thought ever occurred to you that one of these days some biker dude might come along and take that exposed pistol away from you? Biker dudes have their own peculiar definition of, 'public education' too; and they're just as good at public, 'shock and awe' as you and your kind are.

This ain't Disneyland. It's worth thinking about!
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:21   #83
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Originally Posted by MNSurvival View Post
...Anyways I just wanted to share that and also get feedback from others on their experiences from carrying concealed or openly.

-Alex
I don't have any feedback from open carrying because I have never had that much craving for attention. Any yes, that is the only reason to carry openly where ccw is legal. "Hey everybody, look at me!" No thanks.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:25   #84
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...Open carry suits me just fine. I notice the looks, the sideways glances, the whathaveyou. Not concerned. My wife points out that I've been seriously stared down while not looking. Whatever....


And... holy hell... I know... I don't even use a retention holster!! OMG!!!
As long as you are aware (or don't care) that at least there is a possibility that one or three of the people who give you a sideways look are also politically active and may resolve to work even much harder to reduce or eliminate carry rights and that any number of people who see you may not be swayed to vote for anything but fewer gun rights, that is fine.

And your decision to not use a retention holster probably has about as low a probablity of being a problem as the probability of having to use the gun.
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:09   #85
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Good thing that Rosa Park didn't have your attitude, or else she'd still be sitting in the back of the bus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
No, not by your definition of the term, 'crusader' I'm not; but that's because I know something you have yet to learn. Unliked you I think twice before starting a war with strangers or, for the matter, turning myself into a negative example for the news media - Which given an opportunity will be quick to excoriate you and your kind.



Wow, get this! Here I am being falsely accused by someone who doesn't even know me! I'd think it obvious that between the two of us, I am the one who takes other people's thoughts and feelings into consideration BEFORE he acts. You, on the other hand, show little or no compunction about starting public arguments that you can't possibly win. You imagine you're representing everybody's Second Amendment rights when, in reality, what you're doing is making enemies on both sides of the issue everywhere you go! Don't you get it? The larger mass of the general public doesn't want you exposing a deadly weapon in front of them and their families -

THAT'S NOT WHAT MOST PEOPLE WANT!

I carry two concealed pistols with me just about everywhere I go; and I, too, don't want you exposing your gun for public purview.

CARRYING A DEADLY WEAPON IS NOT ABOUT, 'PUBLIC EDUCATION'. IT'S ABOUT (SHREWD) SELF-DEFENSE, INSTEAD!

Don't you get it? You're not just demonstrating for your own Second Amendment rights; at the same time you're screwing around with mine! I don't want people over-sensitizing to the fact that I might be carrying a gun. Anyone who watches the TV news every night is, already, more than frightened enough over firearms!

HASN'T THE, RATHER OBVIOUS, THOUGHT OCCURRED TO YOU THAT YOU COULD ACCOMPLISH FAR MORE WITH A SECOND AMENDMENT SUPPORT EMBLEM PRINTED ACROSS YOUR CHEST OR SEWN ON YOUR SLEEVE THAN YOU'LL EVER BE ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH BY FLAUNTING A DEADLY WEAPON ON YOUR HIP? HASN'T IT!

Haven't you ever heard of, 'writing letters to the Editor'? Don't you know about, 'demonstrating with your vote'? Just one day in your life have you ever shown sufficient social conscience to set a positive example FOR your political ideals rather than against them? 'Shock and awe' might work inside a saturation bombing campaign; but it's an ill-advised method to use against other people whom you hope to persuade to your point-of-view.

Somehow, though, I think that you and your kind already know this. It's not really about, 'public education', now, is it! It's all about, 'Look at me and what I want'. Between the two of us which individual do you think an objective and impartial analysis would determine to be more social and civic-minded? You with your exposed pistol; or me with my polite smile and concealed handguns ....... Hmmmm?

You know I'm, kind of, laughing to myself while writing this. I've been reading your posts for years; and I'm aware that you like motorcycles. Has the thought ever occurred to you that one of these days some biker dude might come along and take that exposed pistol away from you? Biker dudes have their own peculiar definition of, 'public education' too; and they're just as good at public, 'shock and awe' as you and your kind are.

This ain't Disneyland. It's worth thinking about!
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Old 04-10-2012, 12:54   #86
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I really hate to throw my 2 cents here, I really do but I will any way, here in indiana we are issued a "license to carry a handgun" no where on it does it say it must be concealed. I like the concept of open carry, I really do, but only in the right situation. If i'm gonna be out and about in and out of higher end stores, or should I say stores with higher volumes of people in them then I would conceal, simply because of the fact that the more people that see your gun, the more likely one is gonna be a anti gun commi nut and call the police saying your brandishing your weapon, when in reality you have a gallon of milk and a pack of diapers in your hands. Now if im just going to be around the house, maybe going to the hard ware store, home depot etc, then I would probaly open carry that day. As some one else pointed out, the way you dress when you open carry makes a big difference. I wouldn't go out in ratty wrinkled torn up clothes with my gun on my side, not saying you have to dress like your going to a wedding but at least put on some decent jeans and tuck your t shirt in. I will wear my super tuck deluxe with my shirt tucked in behind it alot, then just throw an unbuttoned flanel or button up shirt on over it, so then you kinda take advantage of both worlds. Just my thoughts, people seem to be getting way too serious about this, it's up to the individual weather they want to open carry or not. Unless you live in super liberal commi hell then 9 times out of 10 if you act like you have some sense you will never have a thing to worry about
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Old 04-10-2012, 13:02   #87
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Choosing to open carry when you can legally conceal and thinking that is a good idea? Are you guys serious? What fantasy world are you living in? I can not think of one good reason where open carry would be remotely better than conceal.
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Old 04-10-2012, 13:20   #88
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... I can not think of one good reason where open carry would be remotely better than conceal.
How about if you were hunting? How about fishing at where feral dogs have been seen?
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Old 04-10-2012, 13:30   #89
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How about if you were hunting? How about fishing at where feral dogs have been seen?
Thanks Bruce, I'm glad some people understand the concept of certain situations. Personally the way I am seeing it is that all of ya'll who think we open carriers are the anti christ, have something to hide. "O I can carry my gun but gosh God forbid some one see me with it". And to counter the comment about why open carry when it is legal to conceal, well why conceal when it's legal to open carry?????
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Old 04-10-2012, 14:00   #90
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If we scare enough people by open carrying our pistols, we will soon start seeing businesses posting no firearms allowed signs at their doors and lawmakers passing tougher laws on carrying a firearm.
I saw a sign like that in a Walmart store in Texas last week. I didn't write it down, so I don't have exact wording, but it was something like "unlicensed guns are not allowed in store". Problem is we don't license guns in Texas. I'll have to go back in the next couple of days and take pen & paper so I can get it accurately.
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Old 04-10-2012, 14:10   #91
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What's most sad here is the very people that tout and spout 2nd Amendment freedom for all and these are some of the very same people that are name-calling and lambasting open carry people. Unbelievable. Accusing people of wanting attention and actually even getting pissed over it. You people need to turn in your freedom card NOW. You are no better than the liberals, in my opinion. Wow.
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Old 04-10-2012, 14:13   #92
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Oh, and by the way, it's nice to know where a bunch of you stand. Nice to know some of the biggest critics of 2nd Amendment rights is gun owners themselves that talk outta both sides of their heads.
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Old 04-10-2012, 14:35   #93
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Oh, and by the way, it's nice to know where a bunch of you stand. Nice to know some of the biggest critics of 2nd Amendment rights is gun owners themselves that talk outta both sides of their heads.
Guns are not a political statement, they are not toys, and they aren't a fashion accessory. People who show them off are ignoring what guns are for because they don't take the concept of being armed seriously. There is no reason not to throw a shirt tail over the thing where legal other than to be an attention whore or to live out some perverse fantasy. They are living an arrested development lifestyle and I'll bet you a million dollars none of them have the balls to walk around the worst neighborhood in the biggest city with one showing.

I've been in those places with my gun showing and a uniform on. My back was to the wall, my elbow was locked down over the butt of the gun, and it was in a level III Safariland and I'm still lucky no one ever got it away from me. Have a beer with some people who have had their gun snatched and heard it go "click" while they looked down the bore and you'll know a little bit more about what guns are for.

I was talking to an old-timer NYPD Copper the other day hand he told me they used to leave the first three chambers on their revolvers empty to give them enough time to get their back up out when someone took their primary away from them.

Make your statements at Dress Barn or Cracker Barrel or whatever rough places you hang out with your gun on your hip and hope that one of the polite, nicely dressed killers I've met isn't behind you.
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Old 04-10-2012, 15:44   #94
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Choosing to open carry when you can legally conceal and thinking that is a good idea? Are you guys serious? What fantasy world are you living in? I can not think of one good reason where open carry would be remotely better than conceal.
Too bad the homosexuals didn't follow this advice and stay in the closet.
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Old 04-10-2012, 18:14   #95
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How about if you were hunting? How about fishing at where feral dogs have been seen?

Ok. I can give you that. I was talking about defense against crazy 2 legged creatures.
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Old 04-10-2012, 18:26   #96
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Thanks Bruce, I'm glad some people understand the concept of certain situations. Personally the way I am seeing it is that all of ya'll who think we open carriers are the anti christ, have something to hide. "O I can carry my gun but gosh God forbid some one see me with it". And to counter the comment about why open carry when it is legal to conceal, well why conceal when it's legal to open carry?????
Country- Its not about "I am going to open carry CUZ I CAN" Do you honestly think that its smart to alert the would be robber in the store/bank you are in that you are carrying? Guess what? You are target victim #1. Action is ALWAYS quicker than reaction. Or how but you standing in line at a store and the thug behind you sees that beautiful gun on you waist and he just cant resist the temptation to take it? Good luck with handgun retention. Perfect opportunity for that thug. Why would you not eliminate that opportunity and give yourself a fighting chance? That is utter stupidity.
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Old 04-10-2012, 18:35   #97
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Guns are not a political statement, they are not toys, and they aren't a fashion accessory.
Too bad the anti-gunners aren't taking a page from your advice, huh?

They've objectified guns as "evil". They've vilified the Second Amendment.

You can sit on your high horse, or you can fight fire with fire.
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Old 04-10-2012, 18:41   #98
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I only open carry while I am smoking. Maximum opportunity to offend as many as possible.
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Old 04-10-2012, 18:57   #99
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Too bad the anti-gunners aren't taking a page from your advice, huh?

They've objectified guns as "evil". They've vilified the Second Amendment.

You can sit on your high horse, or you can fight fire with fire.
Roger that !
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Old 04-10-2012, 19:03   #100
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So what? Are we supposed to give you a medal?

It is my opinion that the radical OCers really mess up the public opinion on guns (by scaring the ordinary citizens) and harm the rights of gun owners everywhere.
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