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Old 03-09-2012, 11:43   #1
HolvikArms
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SIRT Pistols...any input?

The guys at SIRT have been hounding me to purchase some of their trainers. Does anyone have any input on these? I've seen the marketing material but I would like to get some less biased opinions on them.
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:10   #2
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Just buy a new GLOCK. With a lil digging you can actually get one for less than you'd spend on the SIRT. Nice idea, but DAYUM. I don't mind someone making a nickel on their product, just please don't try to put your kids through college on one sale.
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:23   #3
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Yeah, that's pretty much what has been holding me up from incorporating it into training. I just don't see if it is really any better then dry fire practice (aside from the possibility of a negligent discharge). I might be a bit more interested if there was some kind of blow back function like a gas operated air soft replica, but i have a hard time justifying that price for a laser pointer. That's why i wanted to see if anyone was using them and what their verdict was.
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Old 03-17-2012, 15:57   #4
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I have one, I like it.

Of course live fire is better, but most people don't have the time/money to do it every day. That is where alternative training methods come in.

Dry firing an actual firearm has its place as far as practicing trigger control/sight alignment.

Introducing a laser adds the ability to see where your shot would have gone- especially useful if practicing threat focused shooting with the sights slightly below the line of eye sight, or extreme close range retention shooting from the hip.

I often use a Beamhit system for this. The disadvantage is that you have to rack the slide for every "shot".

With the SIRT pistol, you can practice multiple shots. Feel of the grip is pretty much the same as a Glock, but the trigger is a bit different.

Its another tool in the training tool box. It doesn't replace the other tools, but is a nice addition. I would think they could produce them a bit cheaper though.
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:41   #5
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Thanks for your sharing your experience with the SIRT. The price seems to be the big factor when I talk to people about it (I know it is for me). I would just like something more...simulated cycling of the action or a target system that records/scores shot placement.

I was also wondering, is there enough "click" in the trigger break to use it with a shot timer?
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Old 03-20-2012, 14:56   #6
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I've never used a shot timer, so I can't offer an opinion on that.
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Old 03-20-2012, 19:15   #7
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Originally Posted by HolvikArms View Post
I was also wondering, is there enough "click" in the trigger break to use it with a shot timer?
I have never seen a shot timer stop with anything but an actual shot or someone making a purposefully loud sharp noise.

I have dry fired a bazilion times with Glocks and 1911s and never seen a shot timer stop. You have to listen for the Par time beep to see where you are time wise.

I played around with a SIRT pistol at Todd Green's Aim Fast Hit Fast class. Todd showed us his SIRT pistol. There is no way that "click" is stopping a timer.
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Old 03-21-2012, 07:40   #8
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I have never seen a shot timer stop with anything but an actual shot or someone making a purposefully loud sharp noise.

I have dry fired a bazilion times with Glocks and 1911s and never seen a shot timer stop. You have to listen for the Par time beep to see where you are time wise.

I played around with a SIRT pistol at Todd Green's Aim Fast Hit Fast class. Todd showed us his SIRT pistol. There is no way that "click" is stopping a timer.
I just got a ced7000 timer but haven't tried it with dry fire yet. In the past I have been using the "shot timer pro" app for my phone. It works adequately for dry fire since it first records the sound you want to trigger the timer. You can then also tweak it to help eliminate false positives.

It's not a great live fire timer but in a controlled environment like my garage it gets the job done. It's on the android market. There is a free demo version and a $9.99 pro version.
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Old 03-21-2012, 07:50   #9
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Since we're here talking about it...I think this might be a better option. A little cheaper also.

http://www.laserlyte.com/products/lts-target
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Old 03-26-2012, 13:07   #10
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Since we're here talking about it...I think this might be a better option. A little cheaper also.

http://www.laserlyte.com/products/lts-target
The TLB-1 would be a nice tool if you are planning to use to practice for bullseye-type competitions but it serves no practical application for any sort of action-pistol competitions or self-defense practice.

My business partners and I use SIRT pistols for both personal dry-fire as well as a teaching aid. We use it at the range and encourage our students to alternate between live fire and dry fire to diagnose certain deficiencies in shooting fundamentals that students may have.

You can explain the concept of prepping the trigger or riding the reset until the cows come home but watching for it under rapid live fire is much more difficult than when using a SIRT pistol.

They might not inexpensive but they are certainly money well spent!
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Old 03-26-2012, 13:54   #11
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The TLB-1 would be a nice tool if you are planning to use to practice for bullseye-type competitions but it serves no practical application for any sort of action-pistol competitions or self-defense practice.

My business partners and I use SIRT pistols for both personal dry-fire as well as a teaching aid. We use it at the range and encourage our students to alternate between live fire and dry fire to diagnose certain deficiencies in shooting fundamentals that students may have.

You can explain the concept of prepping the trigger or riding the reset until the cows come home but watching for it under rapid live fire is much more difficult than when using a SIRT pistol.

They might not inexpensive but they are certainly money well spent!
I appreciate your take on the SIRT. I would think the practical application of the TBL-1 would be demonstrating sight alignment, sight picture and trigger control on just about any model pistol. I can see the benefit of the trigger reset in the SIRT...maybe I'll take them up on that "instructor discount"...or I can stop being cheap and just get both.
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:38   #12
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Just got an e-mail for a new SIRT pistol. Configured the same as the old one, but with a plastic "slide" instead of metal, and red/red lasers instead of red/green.

Half the price of the original.

http://nextleveltraining.com/content...m_medium=email
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:08   #13
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I just got that a few days ago also...maybe they are realizing that the price point of the original is getting in the way of sales. This price makes it much more appealing.
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Old 04-12-2012, 15:07   #14
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Yep. If the option had been there, I probably would have opted for the cheaper version.
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Old 05-17-2012, 14:16   #15
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I am bias, here is why I love my SIRT. My SIRT sits on the counter of my kitchen. Every time I walk by it I pick it up and train. I work presentations, mag changes, transitions, trigger mechanics for about 10 minutes. I get 200 trigger pulls and I have not even left my house. My kids know to ask me if they can train with it, before they touch it. It has a Bright red slide that differs from my live Gun. This gives me an opportunity on a Dailey basis to train my children in the same manner. All with instant diagnostic feed back.

Last edited by frontpost; 05-17-2012 at 15:21..
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Old 05-18-2012, 09:04   #16
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good feedback...thanks frontpost. I haven't considered the training opportunity for my daughter. She just turned 7 and I have only been training her on rifles from a bench rest. This may be a good way to transition her to a pistol and asses her muzzle discipline. I think you have just sold me on it.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:44   #17
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FWIW - We use SIRT during instruction as well. Students get a better fell for muzzle control in CQC for example and new shooters use it for dry fire trigger control while other students live fire. We've seen a marked improvement in new shooter trigger control before/after using SIRT while we're training other students in live fire.

If you're an NRA instructor they had a pretty steep discount for them not too long ago. Not sure if price still valid or not.

That's my opinion and with $4 will get you a Starbux :-)
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:05   #18
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Originally Posted by HolvikArms View Post
I would just like something more...simulated cycling of the action or a target system that records/scores shot placement.
There's airsoft Glock replicas out there that's more than good enough for that purpose.

In the training context, that would require a bit more setup than with dry fire (laser-assisted or not), and you will also need to monitor the little one a bit more, too.

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Its another tool in the training tool box. It doesn't replace the other tools, but is a nice addition.
^ Agreed most heartily.

What I love the SIRT for is its ability to show me, without any chance for me to even remotely lie about it - when I'm prepping the trigger and when I'm breaking that shot. It's a great intermediate between life-fire and dry-fire.

I take dry-fire practice quite seriously, but truthfully, it's hard to say with 100% certainty whether X or Y happened - or not - when you really don't have a way to quantitate the data. The SIRT allows me to visualize, without any doubt, when I'm prepping, and when I've broken the shot

I don't have one yet, but I've played with them quite a bit. It's next on my list of training purchases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JN01 View Post

Of course live fire is better, but most people don't have the time/money to do it every day. That is where alternative training methods come in.

Dry firing an actual firearm has its place as far as practicing trigger control/sight alignment.
What really took me by surprise is just how much Bob Vogel dry-practices.

At his class this past April, he said that he easily does more than 4x as much dry-fire as he does live-fire.

That definitely encouraged me to dry-fire more often!

Quote:
Introducing a laser adds the ability to see where your shot would have gone- especially useful if practicing threat focused shooting with the sights slightly below the line of eye sight, or extreme close range retention shooting from the hip.
One more benefit of the SIRT is that you can adjust where the lasers "hit," relative to the sights, allowing you to manipulate this factor depending on your specific training needs.

Last edited by TSiWRX; 05-19-2012 at 09:57..
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Old 05-22-2012, 22:04   #19
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Approximately 1 year ago I purchased a SIRT pistol. I worked diligently with it for a period of time and my initial accuracy improved. As time went on I noted a decrease in speed versus accuracy during IDPA. I noted from analysis and observation of videos that I was looking for hits and delaying my transitions. I turned off the laser and used the SIRT device as a dry fire trainer only. I had difficulty getting in and out of my Black Hawk holster. It now sits gathering dust and once again as an early adopter I spent a significant amount of money on a product that didn’t work for me. I now train with a timer and a plastic bread tie stuck in the breach and work the par timer. Improvement has been nothing short of phenomenal. Training aids just don’t beat the basics of a solid plan and hard work and determination.
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Old 05-30-2012, 17:45   #20
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Approximately 1 year ago I purchased a SIRT pistol. I worked diligently with it for a period of time and my initial accuracy improved. As time went on I noted a decrease in speed versus accuracy during IDPA. I noted from analysis and observation of videos that I was looking for hits and delaying my transitions. I turned off the laser and used the SIRT device as a dry fire trainer only. I had difficulty getting in and out of my Black Hawk holster. It now sits gathering dust and once again as an early adopter I spent a significant amount of money on a product that didn’t work for me. I now train with a timer and a plastic bread tie stuck in the breach and work the par timer. Improvement has been nothing short of phenomenal. Training aids just don’t beat the basics of a solid plan and hard work and determination.
Kent,
That is something that occurs, it also happens when we train on steel. It should drive you back to your front sight. Also you need to have confidence in your sight picture and trigger mechanics. I would think that you would stay on the target till you drive it to the ground before moving to the next one. That is why we use reactive targets. I realize this is not a reality in competition, but be careful not to build training scars. "Training aids just don’t beat the basics of a solid plan and hard work and determination", they just add to it. I hope you don’t take this as confrontational. I think you raise a good point. I would love to try and help you find some drills to help correct this and get the most out of your training.
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