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Old 04-11-2012, 19:20   #21
FireForged
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My AR with a muzzle break is easily the loundest thing Ive got. I would really hate to fire it indoors. My hd gun is a SW model 10 38special.
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Old 04-11-2012, 21:05   #22
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Thanks guys, alot of good info! Should've specified too, 16" 1:7 twist.

Looks like I've got some shopping to do! Probably pick up some drywall sections from Depot for my next range trip & do some tests.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:41   #23
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Originally Posted by .50 cal View Post
If your AR can stabilize them the 75g Hornady T2s are Highly recommended, I can't find any in stock now, anyone know who has them in stock?
No clue, honestly. I came across some after a shop in my home town scored a few cases of it. I got a case for myself, and split a second case with my dad.

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Thanks guys, alot of good info! Should've specified too, 16" 1:7 twist.

Looks like I've got some shopping to do! Probably pick up some drywall sections from Depot for my next range trip & do some tests.
Like I mentioned earlier, don't stack 10 sections of drywall 1" apart and think that's a solid test. Set them up like a house would be - 2 sheets spaced for one wall, then a second "wall" 10-30 feet away, depending on how big of a room you want to simulate. You'll be surprised what the impact on the second "wall" looks like with most loads.
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:35   #24
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Good point. I know they are far from humans but the coyotes I have shot with V-max dropped in their tracks, and the wounds from V max are large and nasty, I would imagine it would do similar to humans.

I agree there are better options out there as you mentioned if fear of over penetration are not as great.
Your not shooting them behind the shoulder then. Vmax's are designed to save pelts. Tiny hole in, with no exit. They work extremely well when placed just behind the shoulder. The big nasty splash wounds are when big bone is hit, thats not how they are designed to work. Dime sized entrance, no exit. Vmax's would be my last choice for defense. Pointed soft points, JHP and FMJ would be a better choice.
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:37   #25
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Your not shooting them behind the shoulder then. Vmax's are designed to save pelts. Tiny hole in, with no exit. They work extremely well when placed just behind the shoulder. The big nasty splash wounds are when big bone is hit, thats not how they are designed to work.
Unfortunately, it's nearly impossible to place precision shots like that in a HD/SD scenario. What happens when a VMAX strikes a human sternum or rib? I'd much rather use something I know will reach vitals.
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:38   #26
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Unfortunately, it's nearly impossible to place precision shots like that in a HD/SD scenario. What happens when a VMAX strikes a human sternum or rib? I'd much rather use something I know will reach vitals.

Yep I agree with you. Vmax's would be my last choice. Pointed soft point or JHP, even FMJ. The chances of a Vmax lacking penetration on a 200lb target would be very high in my opinion. Like in the other post I commented on, Ive seen 25lb coyote do the jump, spin, take off across the desert then crump.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:10   #27
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If you want to keep noise down use .223 and not 5.56, though it's not going to make much difference.

Any OTM, JSP, or JHP should be good as long as it isn't a "varmint" round.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:19   #28
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If you want to keep noise down use .223 and not 5.56, though it's not going to make much difference.

Any OTM, JSP, or JHP should be good as long as it isn't a "varmint" round.
It's not going to make a noise difference worth anything. It WILL cost you on velocity, though. Use 5.56 whenever possible.
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:25   #29
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Although my AR isn't my first or second HD option, it's loaded with TAP T2 if needed. Just got some Black Hills MK262 Mod 1 - maybe those in a 2nd mag. The MK318 has caught my interest as well.
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Old 04-12-2012, 19:07   #30
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Maybe a bad choice but I have XM855 on hand and this would have to do. Think of it this way, if you are using an AR for HD (not my first choice) bad guy would likely get more than one hole in him anyway.

Inside home 12 guage is my favorite, followed by Glock 20 or 23.
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Old 04-12-2012, 19:19   #31
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Maybe a bad choice but I have XM855 on hand and this would have to do. Think of it this way, if you are using an AR for HD (not my first choice) bad guy would likely get more than one hole in him anyway.

Inside home 12 guage is my favorite, followed by Glock 20 or 23.
G20, now your talking my language.
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Old 04-12-2012, 20:28   #32
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Like I mentioned earlier, don't stack 10 sections of drywall 1" apart and think that's a solid test. Set them up like a house would be - 2 sheets spaced for one wall, then a second "wall" 10-30 feet away, depending on how big of a room you want to simulate. You'll be surprised what the impact on the second "wall" looks like with most loads.
Oh ya, planning on 2nd wall 10' back from the first, and a 3rd 20ft behind that.

And no the AR certainly isn't 1st choice, but if it ever becomes needed... I try to plan for the worst, as best as I can.

I sold my 870 awhile back, and until I replace it, the AR is the backup to my USP. Hopefully soon, IMO a 12ga packed with 00 or #1 buck is the ideal HD weapon. I sold the 870 due to a pair of shattered wrists making it very hard to handle. All healed now, but time & money going in all different directions right now, lol.
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Old 04-12-2012, 21:08   #33
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Supposedly, M193 and M855 break up in drywall and other wall construction materials.
I have read they do not penatrate more than four layers of drywall, way less than a handgun round. As for noise don't worry about it. In a self defence situation you will more than likely get audiotory exclusion and not hear the rifle or it will be very muffled. While hunting I shoot high power rifles and only remember hearing the rifle a couple of times and of those times it was not ear shattering it was very muffled.
Corey.
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Old 04-12-2012, 23:50   #34
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True, but it still damages your hearing even if you cannot remember it.
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Old 04-13-2012, 07:46   #35
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Maybe a bad choice but I have XM855 on hand and this would have to do. Think of it this way, if you are using an AR for HD (not my first choice) bad guy would likely get more than one hole in him anyway.

Inside home 12 guage is my favorite, followed by Glock 20 or 23.
Honestly, M855 is probably one of the worst choices for HD ammo in an AR.

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True, but it still damages your hearing even if you cannot remember it.
Absolutely.
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Old 04-13-2012, 17:18   #36
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I use 45gr HP Winchester brand.
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Old 04-13-2012, 17:19   #37
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I use 45gr HP Winchester brand.
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Old 04-13-2012, 17:46   #38
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I use 45gr HP Winchester brand.
Those leave the muzzle at 3600fps if I remember correctly. The same Winchester white box 45grn 22-250 leaves the muzzle at 4,000 fps. Thats ballistic for inside.
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Old 04-13-2012, 17:57   #39
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Those leave the muzzle at 3600fps if I remember correctly. The same Winchester white box 45grn 22-250 leaves the muzzle at 4,000 fps. Thats ballistic for inside.
I bet it does some serious tissue damage...


In small game. I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable using it for HD.
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Old 04-13-2012, 17:58   #40
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I keep M193 in my mags at home, but I'll probably get some 55gr. HPs from a company like Corbon or the like.

One account I read really stuck with me, it ma have been posted here, linked from here, or something I read somewhere else....can't remember.

Anyhow, in one of the first few years of the war in Iraq, a Federal Marshal was sent to Iraq to round up some clowns that had left the US and headed for Iraq. He was teamed with some Military guys, and went on a mission to grab an HVT with them.

He was told to cover the back door of the house they were going to go into, in case any tried to hustle out. He was using the ammo he had brought with him, and it was a lighter grain HP round. Shortly after the Military guys kicked in the front door, 3 guys with AKs came running out the back door. The Marshall double tapped each one in the chest as they came out, and they dropped hard DRT.

Autopsies were done on the bodies, and it was discovered that those rounds had done incredible damage inside the chest cavities....serious, grape-fruit sized areas of damage that really dropped them.

So, I would feel very comfortable with a high-velocity 55gr JHP from any good ammo manufacturer. Since SD/HD shootings are going to be at very close range for a rifle, I'm not of the opinion that heavier grain boolets are necessary.
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