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Old 04-17-2012, 15:39   #61
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Originally Posted by eselby View Post
How about because I respect the job LEOs do, but I am constantly baffled by the idiocy of some of them? I often ascribe that to my lack of knowledge about police procedure, so when an officer shoots a dog (good shot, too) in a situation like this I want to know if he was being a Good Cop or if he was just a Dumb Cop With a Gun.

Bad behavior by cops in public and even on message boards leads to bad PR for all cops.
Likewise, bad behavior by folks in public and even on message boards leads to bad PR or all folks .

You catch the drift?


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Old 04-17-2012, 15:45   #62
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Originally Posted by eselby View Post
How about because I respect the job LEOs do, but I am constantly baffled by the idiocy of some of them? I often ascribe that to my lack of knowledge about police procedure, so when an officer shoots a dog (good shot, too) in a situation like this I want to know if he was being a Good Cop or if he was just a Dumb Cop With a Gun.

Bad behavior by cops in public and even on message boards leads to bad PR for all cops.
Then how about you come on here with your big boy pants on. Instead of getting all whiny, you could have simply left the link and a question. Yet you decide to throw in the "angry at this LEO" like any of us really care that you're angry. Your feelings mean nothing. Clearer?

I refuse to MMQB the Officer on scene. He made his decision, and as long as it's legal and in policy, he made the right decision.
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Old 04-17-2012, 17:46   #63
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LEOs, I want to take your side in this story. I really do, but as the owner of two awesome dogs I'm having a hard time siding with the police here.

http://www.npr.org/local/stories/KUT/150733002

Please explain why this officer would have drawn his gun instead of tazer or pepper spray?

Please offer me an acceptable, rational reason to not be angry at this LEO.
Because the Officer was alone at a domestic with an agressive dog that might have bit him.

How do we correct this? Tax payers fund two officers per car and spend more money on training.

Why should you not be angry? Be angry.

Stuff happens. Think about all the thousands of calls a day that Police respond to. You would think not a day goes by without 100+ bad things that happened and news reports.

What makes this situation so bad? Liberal Austin Texas. This would not be front line news at most places, as people know mistakes get made.

What you have done? Gotten bit?

Did the city say they would do nothing about the dead dog and say they were not sorry?
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Old 04-17-2012, 18:25   #64
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LEOs, I want to take your side in this story. I really do, but as the owner of two awesome dogs I'm having a hard time siding with the police here.

http://www.npr.org/local/stories/KUT/150733002

Please explain why this officer would have drawn his gun instead of tazer or pepper spray?

Please offer me an acceptable, rational reason to not be angry at this LEO.
Maybe you could provide more information on the incident so what one of us in LE could make an informed opinion?
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Old 04-17-2012, 18:58   #65
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30 pound Blue Heeler I think. IIRC from the closed thread. Not really known to be aggressive dogs. I mean, it wasn't a 200 pound Rottweiler for crying out loud.
I beg to differ about that....So do the scars on my knee. Was a Blue Heeler about 30-40 pounds.

The dog in question that caused the scars to me was lucky to escape with only my boot to its teeth, and was milliseconds away from a serious case of lead poisoning.

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The dog owner, while at gunpoint and hands in the air, told the officer his dog would NOT bite. Officer immediately shot the 30 pound dog. Somebody has no business being a cop.
Oh yeah, because I really believe people when they tell me that their dog doesnt bite. I have been bit by dogs a number of times, and just about bitten more times than I can count. Every single time I had conversation about the dog with the owner prior to said incident, they ALWAYS assured me that their dog doesn't bite....he just barks alot. BULL****!
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Old 04-17-2012, 19:06   #66
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Old 04-17-2012, 19:53   #67
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yup FTW....
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Old 04-17-2012, 20:34   #68
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Old 04-17-2012, 20:58   #69
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Case law is clear that an officer does not have to exhaust all non lethal options before using justified deadly force with a human. Why do some people believe it should be different with an animal? Dogs aren't without defenses, nor are they without aggression. They cannot be reasoned with. They are animals subject to acting with animal instincts, and without rationale.

I have two good friends who have been attacked by dogs, and bare the scars to this day. One of them received a hand injury that almost ended his career. That one was dog that weighed less than 80 pounds.

No one's pet is worth my well being and livelihood. Sorry.
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Old 04-17-2012, 21:05   #70
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I live in San Antonio, they had the dog's owner on the radio today doing an interview. Seems like a pretty straight guy, wasn't pulling the cop-bashing routine that usually follows something like this. He of course, strongly disagreed with the officer's actions, perfectly understandable from his situation.

I'm not LE, just have a couple friends who are, and have mentioned that "domestic disturbance" calls are some of the most likely to get hairy fast. In which case, I can understand to a degree the officer being on high guard. He didn't know he was at the wrong house. If the scene was the same, but he was at the right house, this probably wouldn't be up for discussion.

There's no easy answer here, sucks all around. The dog owner? Poor guy has done nothing wrong. Was playing with his dog, goes out to his truck, gets a gun in his face & then watches his dog get killed.

Officer responded to a call, to which he was given the wrong address. I feel like he may have jumped the gun(no pun intended), but again, I'm not LE. He got out of his car thinking he was about to face a violent wife-beater, not some guy playing frisbee with his dog.

****ed up mess for everybody involved.
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Old 04-17-2012, 21:29   #71
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Old 04-18-2012, 04:54   #72
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I live in San Antonio, they had the dog's owner on the radio today doing an interview. Seems like a pretty straight guy, wasn't pulling the cop-bashing routine that usually follows something like this. He of course, strongly disagreed with the officer's actions, perfectly understandable from his situation.

I'm not LE, just have a couple friends who are, and have mentioned that "domestic disturbance" calls are some of the most likely to get hairy fast. In which case, I can understand to a degree the officer being on high guard. He didn't know he was at the wrong house. If the scene was the same, but he was at the right house, this probably wouldn't be up for discussion.

There's no easy answer here, sucks all around. The dog owner? Poor guy has done nothing wrong. Was playing with his dog, goes out to his truck, gets a gun in his face & then watches his dog get killed.

Officer responded to a call, to which he was given the wrong address. I feel like he may have jumped the gun(no pun intended), but again, I'm not LE. He got out of his car thinking he was about to face a violent wife-beater, not some guy playing frisbee with his dog.

****ed up mess for everybody involved.
So, you feel like the officer jumped the gun... The dog owner and Chief were on a radio show here yesterday. The owner admitted his dog charged the officer, and was barking at him. The owner admitted it was less than 6 seconds between the time he saw the officer and his dog was shot. That doesn't seem like a lot of time to me.

The dog owner has never denied that his dog was aggressively charging the officer. His complaints are "wrong house"; understandable, but there is a legit explanation, "officer should have used less lethal options first"; ignorance, and "the officer should have backed up, and taken more time to assess the situation because it happened so fast"; more ignorance.

The guy is pissed. I get that. It was a **** sandwich, and his dog is dead. I don't blame the guy for wanting apologies and answers. The Chief has given him both. Publically. Now, he's still pushing the issue, after getting what he asked for. Why? Does it hurt that bad, or is actually enjoying his 15 minutes?
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Old 04-18-2012, 05:26   #73
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7 hours ago
CNN!! Whoot!!
Seems like the owner is more interested in the publicity...
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:32   #74
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Ha ha i promise all of you if you had a pound blueheeler after you, you would be scared also.
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:53   #75
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Cop Talk
I just wanna say ^^ that is friggin great!
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:00   #76
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Try this out. Let a police dog "frighten" a person. Let that person put a bullet through the head of that police dog. Now... let the person who shoots the police dog apologize to the handler, etc. for his mistake. And let the handler and department, etc. be told that it's sad but, well, it was just a sad, sad mistake. After all, with imperfect information and given the extreme of the moment, the reaction of the person who shot the police dog would to any reasonable man be perfectly reasonable.

Sure seems to be a perfectly fair application of the line of reasoning that seeks to absolve the above office, dept., etc. of any responsibility or liability. You know. Good for the goose... good for the gander.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:06   #77
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Try this out. Let a police dog "frighten" a person. Let that person put a bullet through the head of that police dog. Now... let the person who shoots the police dog apologize to the handler, etc. for his mistake. And let the handler and department, etc. be told that it's sad but, well, it was just a sad, sad mistake. After all, with imperfect information and given the extreme of the moment, the reaction of the person who shot the police dog would to any reasonable man be perfectly reasonable.

Sure seems to be a perfectly fair application of the line of reasoning that seeks to absolve the above office, dept., etc. of any responsibility or liability. You know. Good for the goose... good for the gander.
Wow.... Your superb intellect amazes me. Nothing like comparing apples to oranges.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:08   #78
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Try this out. Let a police dog "frighten" a person. Let that person put a bullet through the head of that police dog. Now... let the person who shoots the police dog apologize to the handler, etc. for his mistake. And let the handler and department, etc. be told that it's sad but, well, it was just a sad, sad mistake. After all, with imperfect information and given the extreme of the moment, the reaction of the person who shot the police dog would to any reasonable man be perfectly reasonable.

Sure seems to be a perfectly fair application of the line of reasoning that seeks to absolve the above office, dept., etc. of any responsibility or liability. You know. Good for the goose... good for the gander.

Bruce V everyone! Clap clap clap clap
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:39   #79
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Ok so the chief apologized and all that jazz. Have they hadthe offending officer apologize? Also have they made him right for destructionof property?
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:48   #80
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Try this out. Let a police dog "frighten" a person. Let that person put a bullet through the head of that police dog. Now... let the person who shoots the police dog apologize to the handler, etc. for his mistake. And let the handler and department, etc. be told that it's sad but, well, it was just a sad, sad mistake. After all, with imperfect information and given the extreme of the moment, the reaction of the person who shot the police dog would to any reasonable man be perfectly reasonable.

Sure seems to be a perfectly fair application of the line of reasoning that seeks to absolve the above office, dept., etc. of any responsibility or liability. You know. Good for the goose... good for the gander.
Except for the fact that a K9 is a police service animal, that is trained to react to commands, and only attack certain targets. A police K9 doesn't wander around looking for trouble and aggressively charging people. They act at their handlers commands.

Here, our K9 units operate with at least one other officer so that's a minimum of two cops with the dog. The handler, and a cover/hands on. The dog, even off the leash will immediately submit to its handlers verbal commands. So, it's not even close to the same thing.

Let's say that using your scenario of a police K9, the dog loses its mind, charges another officer aggressively, and fails to yield to its handler's commands... I would have no problem with an officer shooting the dog.

Just like if the K9 was on a suspect, refused to get off the bite, and was tearing up a guy while not yielding to the handlers commands... I would expect the handler, or another cop, to take the appropriate action to protect human life.
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