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Old 04-30-2012, 12:05   #1
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Indian faces arrest for debunking miracle

http://www.rationalistinternational....0420/en_1.html
http://stephenlaw.blogspot.com/2012/...a-defence.html
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:12   #2
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Oh no, not Christians. They wouldn't do that, unless they had the power. How quickly people forget the Reformation.
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Old 04-30-2012, 15:36   #3
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The priest of Our Lady of Velankanni Church, and representatives of the piously incensed Association of Concerned Catholics (AOCC) has demanded that Edamaruku publicly apologize for having the audacity to say out loud that water flowing from a statue in their church was a leak in the sewage system and not — as the Indian media and the Church had loudly proclaimed — a miracle.
So let me get this straight: The priest believes the statue is crying urine?
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Old 04-30-2012, 15:39   #4
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Not exactly.

It's not the priest saying that, it's the guy who debunked - and he's saying that there's a backed up piece of the sewage system close by and the liquid (which would presumably contain urine but not be exclusively urine, given that it's sewage, there'd be water and other liquids etc) got to the statue through capillary action.
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Old 04-30-2012, 16:04   #5
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got any objective sources?

like all other clear thinking people, we'll reserve judgement until we have all the facts, including those from objective sources without agendas.

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"While not all humanists etc. are necessarily also rationalists (for example religious humanists are not), rationalists do certainly subscribe to the ideals of humanism and they are freethinkers and secularists and strong atheists." - Rationalist International

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Old 04-30-2012, 16:05   #6
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got any objective sources?

like all other clear thinking people, we'll reserve judgement until we have all the facts, including those from objective sources without agendas.
Did you bother to look at the sources and go to the videos? (I don't speak the language, so I only understood what they said in English, I'm hoping there's a subtitled one put up at some point).

Or, perhaps:
http://www.mumbaimirror.com/article/...%E2%80%99.html, which is also linked from one of the articles I linked.

There seems to be the possibility that what they are complaining about is his statements against the Catholic church and not the debunking, although even if that is the case, I would hope that people would recognize that he should not be arrested for merely speaking those views.
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Old 04-30-2012, 18:06   #7
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don't get me wrong, i'm confident this wasn't a "miracle", and the skeptic should not be arrested for calling them out either.

just want to make sure both sides are being represented fairly and all the facts are presented in an objective manner so the public can make an informed decision.

of course, objective reporting doesn't happen in America either, especially from Big Media and Big Science.

carry on.
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Old 04-30-2012, 18:28   #8
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Local representatives of the Catholic Church have filed charges under section 295A of the Indian Penal Code which makes it a crime to outrage religious feelings or any class by insulting its religion or religious beliefs.
So, we know see its true face. There was a great outcry, as there should have been, when Catholicism was facing a First Amendment violation by the Obama administration. However, when it comes to the liberty of speach or conscience of anyone else, they come with a repressive hand to stamp out all resistance.
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Old 04-30-2012, 19:30   #9
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got any objective sources?

like all other clear thinking people, we'll reserve judgement until we have all the facts, including those from objective sources without agendas.
If you did that you couldn't be a Christian. You won't have the facts until after you die, and probably not then because you will be dead. But you jump to conclusions anyway.
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Old 04-30-2012, 19:42   #10
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So, we know see its true face. There was a great outcry, as there should have been, when Catholicism was facing a First Amendment violation by the Obama administration. However, when it comes to the liberty of speach or conscience of anyone else, they come with a repressive hand to stamp out all resistance.
FWIW, this was not intended as a Catholic bashing thread. More an example of how laws that imho should not exist can be abused. The law used is not solely usable by Catholics and in fact has been used by Muslims, etc.

(Edit: See, for instance, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7883612.stm)
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Old 04-30-2012, 19:49   #11
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If you did that you couldn't be a Christian. You won't have the facts until after you die, and probably not then because you will be dead. But you jump to conclusions anyway.
no different than you buying life insurance.

just preparing for the possibility.

but thanks for caring.
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Old 04-30-2012, 19:55   #12
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no different than you buying life insurance.

just preparing for the possibility.

but thanks for caring.
Don't have life insurance. When I die I want it to be a sad day for everyone.
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:42   #13
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Originally Posted by void * View Post
FWIW, this was not intended as a Catholic bashing thread. More an example of how laws that imho should not exist can be abused. The law used is not solely usable by Catholics and in fact has been used by Muslims, etc.

(Edit: See, for instance, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7883612.stm)
My point is simple. The same Catholic Church cried foul about their freedom of conscience and liberty in the United States, but is actively seeking to violate this man's liberty and conscience and throw him into jail.

I see a fundamental problem with this.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:02   #14
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My point is simple. The same Catholic Church cried foul about their freedom of conscience and liberty in the United States, but is actively seeking to violate this man's liberty and conscience and throw him into jail.

I see a fundamental problem with this.
The "fundamental" problem is that where such laws exist, people will abuse them. Whether they're Catholic or Protestant or anything else. If you want to pretend that your denomination wouldn't contain a human who would fall prey to such behavior, if they lived in a jurisdiction with such a law, I think you're fooling yourself. (Edit: for the record, if there were a law worded such that an atheist could press charges for being offended in some way, there's going to be someone somewhere who will press the charges. That doesn't make them correct, and it doesn't mean the group that such a person belongs to is the problem).
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:41   #15
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What!? Someone punished (tortured, executed, beheaded, burned at the stake, etc.) for challenging/debunking religious myth!?

IMPOSSIBLE.

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Old 05-01-2012, 11:55   #16
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I'm just speculating, but what do you suppose there is a donation box near the statue?
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:01   #17
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What!? Someone punished (tortured, executed, beheaded, burned at the stake, etc.) for challenging/debunking religious myth!?

IMPOSSIBLE.
Possible but not likely. Jesus advocated none of that. There are 30,000 Christians in jail in North Korea alone put there by your fellow atheists.
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Old 05-01-2012, 20:19   #18
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Don't have life insurance. When I die I want it to be a sad day for everyone.
That right there is funny I don't care who you are.
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Old 05-01-2012, 20:23   #19
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It's pretty sad for the Catholics that their God is so weak they have to file a lawsuit to hush the opposition.
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Old 05-01-2012, 20:25   #20
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Possible but not likely. Jesus advocated none of that. There are 30,000 Christians in jail in North Korea alone put there by your fellow atheists.
Why is it religious folks can not understand that Atheism requires nothing other than not believing in God? They don't have any other required shared belief no matter how bad you need them to so you can feel high and mighty, or feel like you have made some gotcha point. Those imprisonments have nothing to with atheism, to which North Korea hardly applies. Their government and the Il family in particular are practically deities.

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