[alitke15]

Originally Posted by F106 Fan

Although opinions vary, it is customary to full-length resize cases that will run through a semi-auto. It would also be a good idea to full-length resize free-range brass (stuff you pick up).

Neck-only sizing is common for bolt action rifles where the brass has been fire-formed to fit the chamber of the rifle. The brass is unique to that specific rifle and neck-only sizing extends the case life by not overworking the body.

The 3 die Redding set includes both sizing dies and, since I have both a semi-auto and a bolt-action, it would be a nice way to go. But I am knee deep in .223 dies.

The RCBS X die seems like an interesting approach to resizing for my AR and M1A. I'll have to consider it.

As a personal preference, for rifle reloading, I like bullet seating dies with micrometer adjustment. They're just a lot quicker to get set up. There's no reason not to buy the RCBS X sizing die and a Redding seating die. It's just money...

For pistol reloading I like the Dillon seating die. It is easy to disassemble and clean without changing the setting. The bullet lube on lead bullets eventually builds up to the extent that it fouls the die and causes it to seat the bullet deeper and deeper throughout the reloading run.

Richard

Going to have to look into the X-die. Do you suggest the Hornady or RCBS Case Prep Center? I am trying to determine what the best process is when it comes to prepping cases. Or are their better options.

[F106 Fan]

Originally Posted by alitke15

Going to have to look into the X-die. Do you suggest the Hornady or RCBS Case Prep Center? I am trying to determine what the best process is when it comes to prepping cases. Or are their better options.

I have the Hornady case prep station. I like it but I don't consider it a precision device in terms of trimming to length. It's good but there are better.

I would consider it adequate for the job of trimming that 0.020" length adjustment for the use with the RCBS X die. Plus or minus 0.001" isn't necessary. And, for all I know, the Hornady may be able to hold tolerances. I haven't actually used that feature.

A lot of people like the Forster trimmer and usually add a drill motor adapter. This is because the Forster has a micrometer adjustment. Nice for the precision loader.

The Hornady also has a primer pocket reamer attachment (optional at extra cost) that will clean up those military cases. All in, the Hornady is quite nice.

I haven't seen or used the RCBS equivalent.

FWIW, I found the Hornady attachments in stock here:
http://www.precisionreloading.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?

The steps for reloading after the first pass will look like:

1. Tumble
2. Lube
3. Reload
4. Tumble to remove lube (optional)
5. Shoot
6. Go to 1

The first pass has to be broken up to trim the case after it is full-length sized. The crimp in the primer pocket will also need to be removed during the first pass. This will also apply to any free-range brass you pick up. Follow the RCBS instructions.

You will need a scheme to isolate the free-range brass from your carefully prepared brass. Good luck with that!

I have been using the Dillon case lube and, at most, I will wipe it off. Sometimes I just leave it. It doesn't seem to bother anything.

Richard

[alitke15]

Originally Posted by F106 Fan

I have the Hornady case prep station. I like it but I don't consider it a precision device in terms of trimming to length. It's good but there are better.

I would consider it adequate for the job of trimming that 0.020" length adjustment for the use with the RCBS X die. Plus or minus 0.001" isn't necessary. And, for all I know, the Hornady may be able to hold tolerances. I haven't actually used that feature.

A lot of people like the Forster trimmer and usually add a drill motor adapter. This is because the Forster has a micrometer adjustment. Nice for the precision loader.

The Hornady also has a primer pocket reamer attachment (optional at extra cost) that will clean up those military cases. All in, the Hornady is quite nice.

I haven't seen or used the RCBS equivalent.

FWIW, I found the Hornady attachments in stock here:
http://www.precisionreloading.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?

The steps for reloading after the first pass will look like:

1. Tumble
2. Lube
3. Reload
4. Tumble to remove lube (optional)
5. Shoot
6. Go to 1

The first pass has to be broken up to trim the case after it is full-length sized. The crimp in the primer pocket will also need to be removed during the first pass. This will also apply to any free-range brass you pick up. Follow the RCBS instructions.

You will need a scheme to isolate the free-range brass from your carefully prepared brass. Good luck with that!

I have been using the Dillon case lube and, at most, I will wipe it off. Sometimes I just leave it. It doesn't seem to bother anything.

Richard

So many options and so much to learn/read. I am lost when it comes to what to buy. I have heard some say the Hornady case prep is the same as the RCBS but more expensive others say the RCBS is junk etc. Thinking the X-die and redding dies are where I am going. The case prep has me lost though.
Just do not want to waste money or screw it up.

[atakawow]

Originally Posted by alitke15

So many options and so much to learn/read. I am lost when it comes to what to buy. I have heard some say the Hornady case prep is the same as the RCBS but more expensive others say the RCBS is junk etc. Thinking the X-die and redding dies are where I am going. The case prep has me lost though.
Just do not want to waste money or screw it up.

You are thinking way too much into this. If you are unsure what to do, just get some Lee case prep items to get started. A cutter, a case holder, a case length gauge, and a deburr tool and you should be good to go. I think the total of all those items would come out to less than $20.00.

[n2extrm]

Ok you can get away neck sizing a case and reusing it sometimes. But it isn't the right way.

The problems are multiple.

First in a bolt gun you have the feel of when a case is getting tight when you chamber it. In auto loaders you don't.

Next we have feeding and clambering reliably. Sooner or later you will have a case that won't chamber correctly and jam up the works. Because you don't have the feel of the bolt you won't know it till its jammed.

You have a leverage advantage in seating or closing the bolt and opening it on a bolt gun. Yes you have the forward assist on the AR but e way out, not so much.

Finally IHMO you are asking for a stuck case in an AR if you neck size.

I would be concerned trimming an extra .020 off a .223 case. I would worry about neck tension personally. A lot of force under recoil. Redding did some testing and found that .223 in an AR actualy grew longer with improper neck tension. I believe the info is on their web site.

I have loaded thousands of AR loads with the Redding two die set and have had no trouble. I don't push the load real hard and I have limited growth in the case. I get several reloadings and don't have to trim again. I think I loose them before I ever retrim them.

I load .223 for the AR like I load pistol. the first time I do all the little tedious tasks. Trim, remove the crimp, clean the primer pockets, chamfer and deburr the cases. The next time I test a few for OAL and runn them through the press progressively like a pistol round.

Have you read the ABC's of reloading or the Lymann book? Both are great for learning the basics. Lymann will serve as your first reloading manual as well.

[F106 Fan]

Originally Posted by alitke15

So many options and so much to learn/read. I am lost when it comes to what to buy. I have heard some say the Hornady case prep is the same as the RCBS but more expensive others say the RCBS is junk etc.

You certainly don't NEED the Hornady case station. I loaded for many years without it. But, to be fair, I loaded pistol almost exclusively.

If you are planning to prep 1000 cases or more then, sure, a machine is the way to go. If you're just going to do a couple of hundred and shoot them a few times before starting over with newer cases, a simple case trimmer will be adequate for a long time.

Read "The ABCs of Reloading" 9th Edition at least twice through and, most certainly, buy one of the reloading manuals like Sierra (my favorite for rifle), Speer #14 or Hornady 8th Edition.

All of those manuals also have a section on the process of reloading. Maybe buy the manual(s) first and then decide on "The ABCs...".

It just doesn't have to start out complicated. It can work into that as you go along. By reading through the various manuals, most of your uncertainty will be eliminated.

You have the press, you are planning to buy the RCBS X sizing die and, probably, the Redding bullet seating die. You have a powder measure (I assume) so all you need are some cases, powder, primers and bullets.

You need to do a little work to the cases. You need to initially resize and trim them in accordance with the RCBS instructions. No big deal. The drill motor stuff at Lee Precision will work fine.

You probably have to ream out the primer crimp. Again, no big deal.

Here's a primer pocket reamer for small primers:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/643...mer-tool-small

Here's the chamfer tool:
http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pi...er-Deburr-Tool

You also need a scale and some check weights (I use RCBS weights). Oh, and a pair of calipers.

That's all it takes.

There are some great stickies at the top of this forum.

Richard

[F106 Fan]

Originally Posted by n2extrm

I would be concerned trimming an extra .020 off a .223 case. I would worry about neck tension personally. A lot of force under recoil. Redding did some testing and found that .223 in an AR actualy grew longer with improper neck tension. I believe the info is on their web site.

The requirement from RCBS is to trim 0.020" off SAAMI maximum which, coincidentally, gives us the SAAMI minimum.

This isn't unlike what a lot of reloaders already do; they trim to minimum.

Richard

[ColoCG]

I have been using the RCBS x- Die for a while now. Trimming cases .020" under doesn't cause any problem at all.

What causes a problem is when you sit down to lube,resize, then trim .020", then chamfer and debur 4 to 5000 cases it really does get to be a pain.

After your all done, all is right with the world except BHO.

[F106 Fan]

That Dillon crimp remover would start to look pretty good after the first 100 or so.

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/con...uper_Swage_600

So much of this reloading thing is volume dependent. If it's just a few hundred rounds per month, who cares how it's done. But when that volume gets up to a few thousand rounds per month (or even just a large batch), all of a sudden the high end equipment starts to make a lot of sense.

I could see the hand chamfer tool and hand trimming tool for 100 rounds but somewhere around 1000 rounds, I want the Hornady Case Prep station. I wouldn't even start on 5000 rounds until I had every tool known to man.

Richard

[ColoCG]

Luckily the majority of the brass I was preping was commercial, no crimps on the primer pockets. I do have a Forster trimmer with the drill attachment and the RCBS case prep center. It makes it easier and you only have to do it once.
If you break it down into smaller batches, it would make it a lot more manageable.

[alitke15]

I do have the press, a hornady lnl ap. I have only reloaded handgun so I do not have rifle books etc. I am looking at the redding dies and if a prep station is not required then the tools to prep. I am probably way over thinking this but I hear its far more dangerous to reload rifle than handgun since it is a necked cartridge.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

[Colorado4Wheel]

Originally Posted by alitke15

I do have the press, a hornady lnl ap. I have only reloaded handgun so I do not have rifle books etc. I am looking at the redding dies and if a prep station is not required then the tools to prep. I am probably way over thinking this but I hear its far more dangerous to reload rifle than handgun since it is a necked cartridge.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Unless you are running into crimped primer pockets you don't need to prep at all. IF you have crimped pockets you just need to swage them once. Dillon and others make a swager. Speed and convenience is the only real difference.

[ColoCG]

Originally Posted by alitke15

I do have the press, a hornady lnl ap. I have only reloaded handgun so I do not have rifle books etc. I am looking at the redding dies and if a prep station is not required then the tools to prep. I am probably way over thinking this but I hear its far more dangerous to reload rifle than handgun since it is a necked cartridge.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

It's not any more dangerous just different. If anything there's a less of a chance with a double charge with rifle because the powder charges usually fill the case pretty much.
Bottleneck cases have to be lubed before full length resizing. Depending on caliber and loads as the brass is resized it has a tendency to flow forward and lengthen the brass. You have to measure your brass length when it gets to long it needs to be trimmed. you usually only need 2 dies on bottlenecked cases. 1 to resize, deprime, and form the inside of the neck. The 2nd die seats your bullet and can apply a crimp if wanted or needed. Other than those things it's pretty much the same.

[n2extrm]

Originally Posted by F106 Fan

The requirement from RCBS is to trim 0.020" off SAAMI maximum which, coincidentally, gives us the SAAMI minimum.

This isn't unlike what a lot of reloaders already do; they trim to minimum.

Richard

Sorry I miss read the original post. I thought you said .020 below Sami minimum specs. That wouldn't leave much next on a .223 case.

[alitke15]

I will mostly be reloading lake city brass which is not crimped I think. I would have to look. would I just use my calipers to measure brass? do I need anything to debur or trim cases? I thought that prepping step was a must?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

[F106 Fan]

Originally Posted by alitke15

I will mostly be reloading lake city brass which is not crimped I think. I would have to look. would I just use my calipers to measure brass? do I need anything to debur or trim cases? I thought that prepping step was a must?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

I would expect Lake City to be crimped. It would probably be 5.56mm, not .223. No big deal but the case volume will be less than commercial so you have to cut back on loads that were designed for commercial brass. I don't know the answer but I suspect you should cut back 0.5 gr. Post a separate thread asking about it. It will get lost in this thread.

There is a difference between military and commercial brass and it's important!

Calipers are fine. I have a Craftsman dial set I have been using for years and years. I just bought a Harbor Freight digital and it gets the WRONG answer. Junk...

Yes, you need to trim the cases once. We have discussed this above. See message 31 for the chamfer tool that deburs after trimming and a pocket reamer for crimped cases.

You don't want the brass to get too long. This is more of a problem for semiauto shooters. My .223 brass for a bolt-action gun doesn't seem to need trimming.

You need a case gauge - Dillon or Wilson. After resizing, either the brass fits the case gauge in terms of headspacing and length or it doesn't. If it doesn't, fix it. Headspacing is controlled by how far the shoulder is pushed back by the sizing die. Length is corrected by trimming. Diameters are reset by the body portion of the die. If you use the X die, you will only need to trim the first time - in theory. I have never used the die so I have no idea if it works. Sounds good and others have had success.

Reread the entire thread. Everything is there.

Richard

[ColoCG]

Originally Posted by alitke15

I will mostly be reloading lake city brass which is not crimped I think. I would have to look. would I just use my calipers to measure brass? do I need anything to debur or trim cases? I thought that prepping step was a must?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Most LC brass has crimped in primers. If it is you still decap and resize the brass as usual. But the crimp must be removed so you can seat your new primer. This can be done with a primer pocket reamer or a swaging tool.

You measure the length of your brass with your calipers after you resized the case. During resizing is when your brass will lengthen.

If your brass is too long you need to use a case trimmer of some sort. After trimming the rough edges inside and outside the case mouth must be removed with an inside- chamfer/ outside- deburr tool.