[SFla27]

Hey GT folks,

I was hoping I could enlist the considerable knowledge base here on the forums to help out a newbie such as myself.

I am basically a new shooter and only have about 500 rounds through my recently-acquired G27. I fire right-handed and my right eye is the dominant one.

I have a tendency to jerk the gun in anticipation of the striker hitting the cartridge, coupled with groupings a bit to the left.

I recently had a Ghost Rocket connector installed. This helped, but I still have a tendency to shoot a bit to the left.

My hands are of average size and as it stands now, I have the 'Medium' (+2mm) backstrap installed on the gun.

I have been told that I could be using too much trigger finger. That makes sense and I can see how that would pull my shots to the left.

As I am a relatively new shooter still working on getting a decent grip, I am faced with two options:

a. Install the 'Large' (+4mm) backstrap and see if that helps.

b. Slap myself in the head and reiterate that I am still a shooting noob and just get my butt to the range and practice.

Any advice would be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

SFla27

[TSiWRX]

From one noob to another - do number 2, but don't slap yourself too hard.

Take a lesson or two from a known instructor/school locally. It sounds like you're a true "fresh-out" beginner, which, if that's the case, getting some one-on-one instruction would likely be best. Otherwise, you can often get more for your money from "semi-private" classes, as long as you have other shooters of your level in the same class.

Build your stamina slowly. Don't get carried away (like I did) and just furiously shove rounds downrange: that's nothing but wasted money. Shoot until you've come to a point where you're simply not getting anywhere, and take that as your ending point for the day - you'll need time and reps to build everything up, from those unique muscles used in shooting to being able to keep your eyes and your mind focused.

Take your time. And yes, professional instruction, as long as it comes from a reputable source, is worth paying for. People at the top tier of all forms of sports- everything from kicking a ball to driving a race-car, pay for quality one-on-one training...why shooters would think that we're any different has always puzzled me.


----

Before you change anything on the gun, establish good fundamentals, FIRST.

Top-tier shooters can shoot any given gun very, very well. Look at the Top Guns episode (on History2) where Chris Cerino (Top Shot Season I runner-up) and Bob Vogel (OK, his name doesn't need a caption ) took up some .22s for fun. Do they have to have these guns "fitted to their hands?" No - and it's because they've established great fundamentals.

[SFla27]

Indeed.

The wife and I are getting professional instruction shortly.

I never thought about it that way: Good shooters have the fundamentals and ability to fire any gun well.

Thank you for the advice!

SFla27

[TSiWRX]

^ No need to thank me, I'm just glad to pass along what I've learned. Like I said, I'm a fellow noob, just like you.

[ithaca_deerslayer]

Originally Posted by SFla27

Hey GT folks,

I was hoping I could enlist the considerable knowledge base here on the forums to help out a newbie such as myself.

I am basically a new shooter and only have about 500 rounds through my recently-acquired G27. I fire right-handed and my right eye is the dominant one.

I have a tendency to jerk the gun in anticipation of the striker hitting the cartridge, coupled with groupings a bit to the left.

I recently had a Ghost Rocket connector installed. This helped, but I still have a tendency to shoot a bit to the left.

My hands are of average size and as it stands now, I have the 'Medium' (+2mm) backstrap installed on the gun.

I have been told that I could be using too much trigger finger. That makes sense and I can see how that would pull my shots to the left.

As I am a relatively new shooter still working on getting a decent grip, I am faced with two options:

a. Install the 'Large' (+4mm) backstrap and see if that helps.

b. Slap myself in the head and reiterate that I am still a shooting noob and just get my butt to the range and practice.

Any advice would be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

SFla27

Shooting left with a Glock is common. Put simply, too simply, you are not holding the gun steady while you pull the trigger. It is mostly a mental problem (and we all have it).

Here is what I wrote in another thread. Give it a read and see if it makes sense. If you have any questions about what I'm saying, let me know and I'll follow up with more that is specific to your shooting


Your mind knows recoil is coming. Dryfiring or snap caps (a kind of dummy round) would allow you to practise trigger pull and holding steady, without having to worry about recoil. Point in a safe direction and practice some dryfiring. Some people dryfire so much that they forget to unload first and get an accidential discharge (seriously). I like a mental break of checking 3 times that the gun is empty before dryfiring. See if you can hold the gun steady while pulling the trigger.

In shooting, the real key to accuracy, in my opinion, is a surprise break. Hold the gun steady, align sights, hold sights on target. All that done with one half of your brain. The other half of your brain begins a slow and steady trigger pull. So slow, for learning purposes, that you don't know when the gun will fire. Take 30 seconds to pull the trigger completely from when you begin starting the pull. Slowly, ever so slowly, pressure builds, but when exactly will the pressure in the trigger break and the gun go BOOM? You do not exactly want to know. Later you speed things up, but you still don't want to know exactly when it will fire. That is the basis of the surprise break. If your mind doesn't know exactly when the BOOM is, then you won't flinch.

Put a dummy round in the middle of your mag, and when you get to it and the gun goes "click", did the sights move, or did they hold steady? Someone watching you would be able to tell for sure.

Sitting at a bench is helpful for learning to pull the trigger, because you don't get tired holding the gun. Hold your gun while resting it on a sandbag, or a bag filled with kitty litter. That type of material won't bounce the gun. A .22 handgun is good for learning too, because you are less likely to flinch from the recoil. A bench will help you to focus on the trigger pull. Shoot 5-shot groups at 10 to 25 yards (eventually), and see how tight you can get your groups to be while resting at a bench. This will let you know what is possible for your standing and unsupported shooting.

A dummy round in your mag, and someone watching you (neato if on video) can tell you if you are holding the gun steady when it goes click. It should hold just as steady as when you are dryfiring. If it doesn't hold steady? Why is that? Flinch Various forms of flinch, such as anticipating, bracing, tension, lots of stuff going on just before your mind expects the BOOM. Stuff that doesn't happen when your mind knows the gun is just going to be dryfired.

So that is why the surprise break is so important. Grip and stance and holding the sights steady on target are all nice, but usually secondary to a good trigger pull as far as most accuracy problems are concerned. Learn and try to impliment a surprise break into your shooting. When accuracy suffers, slow it down and stay focsed on not knowing when the gun will fire. It is perhaps counter-intuitive, but trying to find an instant of perfect sight picture, and then suddenly pulling the trigger, is a sure way to go off target

[TSiWRX]

^ Great stuff!

And one thing to note for all new shooters is that a flinch can develop even in experienced shooters.

It's something that many of us have to work at constantly, to hold in-check.

Dry fire practice is awesome, and virtually all good shooters do it, and do it A LOT. Vogel shares with his students that he dry-fires at least four times as much as he does live.

One of the great tips from Next-Level Training is that you'll have to hold yourself accountable for your dry-fire training: you have to do your dues to make sure that you're not just sitting there, going through the motions, which can potentially ingrain bad technique. Focus on the sights and the trigger, and your technique, to make sure that you're ingraining good things.

[dekova]

Originally Posted by TSiWRX

From one noob to another - do number 2, but don't slap yourself too hard.

[SFla27]

Mr. Deerslayer, I thank you very much for your words of wisdom sir.

It makes perfect sense. I AM flinching (tensing-up and as a result, the gun moves downward a bit and to the left). Follow-up shots are a tad more accurate, as then I am more used to the "anticipation of recoil." I need to relax, slow down and concentrate.

Like you said, you kind-of have to let the gun "scare you" when you take the shot.

I will get some of those snap caps and will practice accordingly, including the 30-second drills and lots of dry-fire practice (thanks TSiWRX!).

SFla27

[ithaca_deerslayer]

Originally Posted by SFla27

Mr. Deerslayer, I thank you very much for your words of wisdom sir.

It makes perfect sense. I AM flinching (tensing-up and as a result, the gun moves downward a bit and to the left). Follow-up shots are a tad more accurate, as then I am more used to the "anticipation of recoil." I need to relax, slow down and concentrate.

Like you said, you kind-of have to let the gun "scare you" when you take the shot.

I will get some of those snap caps and will practice accordingly, including the 30-second drills and lots of dry-fire practice (thanks TSiWRX!).

SFla27

The recoil after the BOOM is usually something you can cope with and get used to. But the anticipation of the recoil, the resulting flinch before the BOOM is the hard part to cope with, and thus the technique of the surprise break, to try and erase the anticipation.

As to recoil after the BOOM, just except it if you can. To start with, just let the gun go up in the air. Don't try to control it, dob't try to stop it. As long as you keep hold of the gun and you are safe, the gun going high up in the air is no big deal. If you mentally accept that the recoil is going to happen, then you can relax and let it happen. Relax and work on the surprise break. Hold the gun out there and as slowly and steadily pull the trigger straight back toward your rear sight. BOOM, gun goes up in the air. Do it again, and again, slow each shot. If you are going slow enough eith the trigger, your body won't flinch before the recoil. If you've decided to accept the recoil, your body won't flinch after the recoil either.

I honestly don't know when you will be able to acheive what I am describing, but eventually you will, and you'll know it. If you stand there at 25 yards and put 5 shots into a 2 to 4 inch group, you will have acheived not moving the gun while you pull the trigger

[SFla27]

Wow. Two to four inch groups at 25 yards.

I've got some work to do!

I look forward to report back steady progress.

[ithaca_deerslayer]

Originally Posted by SFla27

Wow. Two to four inch groups at 25 yards.

I've got some work to do!

I look forward to report back steady progress.

Didn't mean to scare you

Of course I'm talking about going slow to learn it. Same thing about letting the recoil go up in the air, just for learning.

You also eventually as a next step work on speeding things up, controlling the recoil, having quick follow up shots. At a faster pace at 25 yards, my group size opens up to 8".

One way to look at things, for defensive purposes, is to always to shoot an 8" group no matter the distance. At 5 yards it might mean going lightening fast. At 25 yards it may mean picking a much slower pace. At 50 yards it could mean coming to a complete stop and relaxing between shots or looking for a support.

I think you should also occasionally go for the smallest group you can, taking as much time as needed. This is my emphasis for how a new shooter should start. Try to get your groups small first, and then speed up maintaining your groups at 8".

If shooting outdoors, the 25 yard slowfire 5-shot is a good reference point. If indoors, 50 feet is the common distance. If you can't keep a group on a target sheet, then move closer as needed.

So for you, what is your group size now? You don't have to tell me, but do tell yourself. Then see what it is in a month? In a year? This way you can measure your progress

[cowboy1964]

Sounds to me like 9mm may be better suited for you, at least until you solve your flinching problem. Installing a light trigger to help compensate for flinching is not the way to go. You can get a 9mm conversion barrel for the G27.

Also, get a .22 and shoot a LOT of rounds.

And yeah, not using too much trigger finger will definitely help, but it takes some practice to muscle memory the right position.

[SFla27]

Originally Posted by cowboy1964

Sounds to me like 9mm may be better suited for you, at least until you solve your flinching problem. Installing a light trigger to help compensate for flinching is not the way to go. You can get a 9mm conversion barrel for the G27.

Also, get a .22 and shoot a LOT of rounds.

And yeah, not using too much trigger finger will definitely help, but it takes some practice to muscle memory the right position.

Cowboy,

All valid points sir. Actually, as a result of the great advice I have recently received (see above in the thread), I have been practicing accordingly. My "shooting left" issue is being addressed positively as I am concentrating on having a uniform, smooth trigger pull. Before, I was jerking the trigger and trying to anticipate the recoil. The last two range sessions have produced good progress and incrementally-tighter groups centered more along the mid-point of the respective target.

The .40, while a little snappy, is reasonably controllable for me. Although it's true the 9mm would be easier to shoot.

Regarding using a lighter trigger, the trigger setup I have now basically feels just like stock (around 5 or 6lbs). The only thing I've done is put in a ghost rocket connector, but all springs are 100% stock. I only wanted to reduce any potential for trigger overtravel.

But you are correct, I need to develop the proper muscle memory. Actually, the wife and I are meeting a firearms instructor tomorrow to get some professional instruction and guidance. Looking forward to it!

p.s. I will look into getting the 9mm conversion kit. KKM, perhaps.

[ithaca_deerslayer]

Originally Posted by SFla27

Actually, as a result of the great advice I have recently received (see above in the thread), I have been practicing accordingly. My "shooting left" issue is being addressed positively as I am concentrating on having a uniform, smooth trigger pull. Before, I was jerking the trigger and trying to anticipate the recoil. The last two range sessions have produced good progress and incrementally-tighter groups centered more along the mid-point of the respective target.

Glad to hear it is going well

Let us know how the instruction goes, too.

[SFla27]

Well, the wife and I had our first session with a professional firearms instructor. Very informative and a must-do for new shooters!

He knew the Mrs. didn't have any experience or familiarity with guns, so he spent most of his time on her. Hey...that's alright with me.

For the range-part of the session, the wife shot .22cal at 5 to 7 yards and she did great. Around 90% of the hits were within a four inch group centered on the bullseye.

Here's a pic of my 50 shots (.40 cal, Federal American Eagle 180gr) with my G27 at a distance of seven & ten yards. Around half the shots were at seven with the rest at ten. For perspective, the black circular target in the attached image is 17 1/2" in diameter.

Ithaca_Deerslayer, I must say thanks again for your words of advice. They helped bigtime in the practice sessions I had by myself before we had the instructor take a look at my newbie shooting skills. I owe you a mug of frosty brew if you ever get down here to South Florida.

Oh, and by the way, today was the first time I had the chance to use the GAP extended floorplates on my mags. I noticed a definitive improvement in grip control. As the gun's muzzle rose during the recoil phase, I felt the light-to-moderate pressure of the floorplate against the bottom of my ring finger and this helped with overall control and shot recovery.

Cheers!

[TSiWRX]

^ Great!

[ithaca_deerslayer]

Originally Posted by SFla27

Well, the wife and I had our first session with a professional firearms instructor. Very informative and a must-do for new shooters!

. . .

Ithaca_Deerslayer, I must say thanks again for your words of advice. They helped bigtime in the practice sessions I had by myself before we had the instructor take a look at my newbie shooting skills. I owe you a mug of frosty brew if you ever get down here to South Florida.

Glad you had a good experience with the instructor. The help is out there and you are smart for finding it and taking advantage of it, both in person and on the internet.

I just try to do what I can to help pro-gun people to get permits in NYS, and to help people learn to shoot safely and accurately in general. I won't turn down a cold beer after a day at the range