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Old 05-02-2012, 09:18   #26
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Nobody is saying it wont work. Its dirty, weak velocity, inconsistent powder drops and inaccurate. I'm sure its fine of plinking.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:42   #27
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Maybe wolf. The bear ammo is far more consistent. I too only use silverbear for range use now. I never had any issue with that. And I also have never had any issue shooting steel then brass ammo & switching back & forth. I do it all the time. Also there this myth going around that a dirt AR is a jam-o-matic. Not the case with a quality weapon or weapon parts. I have run all 3 of my AR with 1K of nothing but silverbear & only lube with zero malfunctions. This includes run & gun & manipulations. Not just standing static at paper.
Wolf however is garbage. And of course I use brass for SD.
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Old 05-02-2012, 18:29   #28
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Maybe wolf. The bear ammo is far more consistent. I too only use silverbear for range use now. I never had any issue with that. And I also have never had any issue shooting steel then brass ammo & switching back & forth. I do it all the time. Also there this myth going around that a dirt AR is a jam-o-matic. Not the case with a quality weapon or weapon parts. I have run all 3 of my AR with 1K of nothing but silverbear & only lube with zero malfunctions. This includes run & gun & manipulations. Not just standing static at paper.
Wolf however is garbage. And of course I use brass for SD.

I think that myth was put to sleep quite a while ago. AR's will run dirty and wet for many thousands of rounds. I think there's a few that have gone dirty and dry for quite a while with stiffer buffer springs.
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Old 05-02-2012, 19:33   #29
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What would you say the average cost per round is when you reload your own? I know most folks are saying around $.32-.34 cents a round when they buy in bulk, how much cheaper is it when you reload?


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Right now it cost me 17 cents a round to reload.
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Old 05-02-2012, 19:45   #30
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Was wondering if shooting steel case ammo through an AR can have any negative side affects. I see there is a huge difference in price vs brass but when something's that much cheaper, there's usually a catch. Any pros and cons of steel vs brass would be greatly appreciated.

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Old 05-03-2012, 04:20   #31
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I'll stick with the brass. The ends don't justify the means with steel cased.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:04   #32
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Right now it cost me 17 cents a round to reload.
Could you break down that figure for us? How much value are you imputing for your time? How many times are you calculating that you can reload a 5.56 case? By what method are you calculating the depreciation of your reloading equipment?

Lastly, How will you have enough time to pick-up brass and re-load the cases during a zombie apocalypse?
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:10   #33
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[QUOTE=Matthew Courtney;18922045]Could you break down that figure for us? By what method are you calculating the depreciation of your reloading equipment?

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Old 05-03-2012, 06:32   #34
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[quote=Airhasz;18922057]
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Originally Posted by Matthew Courtney View Post
Could you break down that figure for us? By what method are you calculating the depreciation of your reloading equipment?

If one doesn't consider the cost of reloading equipment, their time, shop supplies, shippimg and has mat fees, ect. when calculating their $ per round, then they are not really giving a realistic #.

I reload rifle ammo for accuracy because accurate rifle ammo is over $1/round, making the margins real. I also reload .44 Mag, .45 ACP, and 10 MM because the margins are there. I enjoy reloading enough to reload between 20 and 30 thousand rounds per year, but to reload to save a penny or 3 per trigger squeeze does't wash in my cost/ benefit analysis.

Everyone should do their own analysis based on their own preferences and lifestyle, but telling folks that 5.56 can be reloaded for .17/round without some context is very misleading. To get equipment expenses/hazmat fees/shipping and other "fixed costs" down that low, one would need to order components for 30,000 rounds at a time and/or calculate the value of their time to be a negative. Both are possible and could be appropriate, but the context should be understood.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:47   #35
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Thanks for clearing that up!
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:35   #36
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I think that most people reload because they enjoy it almost if not just as much as shooting. For me with a 1 year old son at home I cant go to the range like I used to twice a week. But I can get out in the garage and do some reloading at night.

Another thing to consider is that with rounds like 10mm and 357 magnum, the stuff you buy in stores is an insult to those calibers. They are watered down under powered garbage. Its nice to load up some rounds to the cartridges potential. I hope to pass on reloading to my son one day like my dad did to me. I think its great for people to have an understanding of how it all works and the ballistics.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:13   #37
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Lastly, How will you have enough time to pick-up brass and re-load the cases during a zombie apocalypse?
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:59   #38
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After shooting Blackhills, Hornady TAP, Hornady (brass), and Hornady Steel Match all in 75 BTHP on the same day at the range, I decided to stick with Hornady (brass) when I can recover brass and Steel Match otherwise. Same POI for me and the best groups out of my BCM 1 in 7" upper. I bought an extra bolt rebuild kit with extractor for 30 bucks and shoved it into a bag in the pistol grip with a little gun oil on it in case I run into a problem. I plan on shooting the steel match as much as possible until I get my reloader up and running though. At 20 bucks for 50 rounds it shoots just fine to 500 yards (okay 22 bucks shipped buying 10 boxes at a time). YMMV
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Old 05-03-2012, 14:53   #39
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I used to eat junk food. Now I don't. I only eat healthy food.

I used to shoot (throw rounds down range) steel case ammo. Now I don't. I only shoot quality brass case ammo.

I prefer to treat my firearms as the same as I treat myself. With respect. It's just me.
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Old 05-04-2012, 01:12   #40
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Could you break down that figure for us? How much value are you imputing for your time? How many times are you calculating that you can reload a 5.56 case? By what method are you calculating the depreciation of your reloading equipment?

Lastly, How will you have enough time to pick-up brass and re-load the cases during a zombie apocalypse?

Not at all hard for people that are in the reloading aspect of shooting to believe Shotgun is loading for 17 cents a round. I routinely do the same....

Hornady 55 FMJBTs $79 a K, Powder Ramshot TAC for 4 pounds is $67 (based on 8# jug price), Wolf/Tula SRM primers $22 a K

That's $168 a K... it's actually cheaper, I was generous in the calculation. FYI, I accounted for HAZMAT and shipping for the above quoted prices (I just max a HAZMAT fee order for over 15K in primers and 35#'s of powder). Given you take into account that you use brass that you purchased as factory ammo or get it for FREE (Me and Shotgun do allot of the time, from the LEO guys at Tac rifle matches )

Shotgun and I reload on Dillon XL650's it took me about an hour to load 500 rounds of .223 tonight. The case prep using my method with a RT1200 trimmer and sizer takes me about 40 minutes for 500 cases. I won't count real time for waiting for a tumbler to clean brass but with other must do's at the bench a thousand rounds takes me conservatively 5 hours off and on during the week an half hour or hour here and there... so what? Better than staring at the boob tube, it's a side bar of the sport / hobby and it has relaxation benefits to a degree.
I shoot about 1200 rounds a month so 5-6 hours spread out during that period to load better than you can buy factory ammo and saving $$$$ really isn't all that much is it? In addition I load 2K of 9mm a month (cost on that is about $90 a K) that is much faster at about 3 hours for all 2K (minus tumbler time).
So in essence 8, lets say 10 hours over 30 days to load 1000 .223 and 2000 9mm rounds.... that's what... 20 minutes a day?
I know guys that spend that much time taking a dump everyday, so IMO your time/value argument is kind of null and void. I also know guys that spend hours every month looking for deals online for ammo and/or driving to/from Walmart to buy it.

Lastly, devaluation of equipment.... my reloading gear is mainly Dillon which isn't the cheapest, I have close to maybe $1700 invested on my reloading bench if bought new today. However,it is some of the best and even after several years of loading 1500-3000 a month. I could still easily sell it for 80% of current list price.
So my bottom line in a conservative rounds down range in component costs for one year alone...12000 rounds of .223 and 24000 of 9mm is a savings of over $4000 a year. I paid for my equipment midway through my first year alone. Everything else is gravy the way I see it.

Oh, I reload some precision .223 loads as well. That really is a more of a relaxation fun to do and chase the sub MOA game.... but you still save money regardless of how you calculate it. Plus you get the satisfaction of getting results like this.
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:59   #41
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I have a wife, 3 daughters, FT job, house choirs like yard work, etc, plus other hobbies like Battlefield 3, beer, more beer, more Battlefield 3, shooting range, etc....I don't have time to spend reloading nor any interest in ever doing it. Oh, and I have no problem with steel case .223 ammo.
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Old 05-04-2012, 21:19   #42
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Originally Posted by Bluestreakfl View Post
Was wondering if shooting steel case ammo through an AR can have any negative side affects. I see there is a huge difference in price vs brass but when something's that much cheaper, there's usually a catch. Any pros and cons of steel vs brass would be greatly appreciated.

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I can't understand why all the gun snobs of this forum spend thousands on their rifles but cheap garbage steel cased ammo through their rifles.
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Old 05-05-2012, 09:15   #43
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I can't understand why all the gun snobs of this forum spend thousands on their rifles but cheap garbage steel cased ammo through their rifles.
So you shoot nothing but the best match grade ammo money can buy? You gotta draw the line somewhere.

Sometimes I need the accuracy of a hunting or match grade load. Other times the extra trigger time I get with Wolf is more of a benefit. That's not cheap. That's smart.
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Old 05-05-2012, 18:31   #44
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For plinking I use my reloads. If I'm going to burn through a few hundred rounds with my Slide Fire stock I use Wolf or Tula. At my price it is not that much more than using my reloads.
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Old 05-05-2012, 22:37   #45
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Any time ammo runs from me, I just shoot it with a different brand.
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Old 05-05-2012, 23:14   #46
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Could you break down that figure for us? How much value are you imputing for your time? How many times are you calculating that you can reload a 5.56 case? By what method are you calculating the depreciation of your reloading equipment?

Lastly, How will you have enough time to pick-up brass and re-load the cases during a zombie apocalypse?
How much value are you imputing for your time? none It is call an opportunity loss. Ask the IRS what that is worth.

How many times are you calculating that you can reload a 5.56 case? It doesn't matter. Several times a year I shoot TAC rifle with some law enforcement guys. They don't pay for or pick up their brass. So I have a steady supply of free brass.

By what method are you calculating the depreciation of your reloading equipment? I owned a Dillon 550 for 4 years before I upgraded to a 650. I sold my 550 for $35 dollars less than I payed for it. Dillon has a forever warranty on my 650. So I don't worry about $8 depreciation a year.
In order to make reloading 223 worth your time you have to buy in bulk. I just bought 16 pounds of powder and 10k primers at once. I buy my bullets by at least 3k at a time.

Lastly, How will you have enough time to pick-up brass and re-load the cases during a zombie apocalypse?I keep it 5 gallon buckets no need to pick it up.

Honestly If you are not already a reloader it isn't worth it to buy all the gear just to do 223. But if you are a competition shooter shooting 20k rounds a year then it is just stupid not to be reloading. My 550 payed for itself in four months. That being said reloading only pays back well if you have the money to buy in bulk. If you don't have a spare $ 500 to $1000 to buy everything in bulk you are not going to see a big difference in cost.
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Old 05-06-2012, 12:52   #47
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Originally Posted by smokin762 View Post
I used to eat junk food. Now I don't. I only eat healthy food.

I used to shoot (throw rounds down range) steel case ammo. Now I don't. I only shoot quality brass case ammo.

I prefer to treat my firearms as the same as I treat myself. With respect. It's just me.
Yeah. Wait....what??
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Old 05-06-2012, 19:14   #48
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I attended a 2 day tactical rifle class last weekend and surprisingly there were quite a few people shooting steel cased ammo. One reason is during a class it's next to impossible to recover you brass cases so you don't feel bad leaving them behind. I shot 600+ rounds of Hornady TAP training ammo without any issues. Clean, accurate and relatively cheap. One guy showed up with a case of Tula, a $600 S&W sport with iron sights and was grouping about 4inches at 200yrds. I was barely able to do that good with my Acog equipped Spike's gun for 5 times that cost.

If you don't want to reload .223/5.56 buy the BCM bolt upgrade kit and don't sweat it. I don't shoot wolf but I will definitely try the Tula stuff after seeing it perform at the class. I'm set up to reload .223 but with all the case prep involved I've never really warmed up to the idea. If I sent the brass out to be processed I may do it but by the time you do that you might as well just buy ammo.
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Old 05-06-2012, 19:26   #49
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Yeah. Wait....what??

If you want consistent accuracy with minimal problems, then use good ammunition. It will be worth the extra money in the long run.

If you don’t mind inconsistent accuracy and FTF and FTE problems,than keep using steel case ammunition.

It kind of makes me shake my head when I see guys talk about their $1,400.00 AR and they are too cheap to buy quality ammunition for it.
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Old 05-06-2012, 20:05   #50
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steel cased

No problems in my Bushmaster or Mini. Sure is dirty though. Is accurate enogh and I have bought both the Academy Monarch brand and Tula they are carrying now. The Monarch was better than the Tula.
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