GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-03-2012, 07:56   #1
HKLovingIT
Resident Evil
 
HKLovingIT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Out On The Tiles
Posts: 4,372
Situational Awareness, Thinking Before Doing, and Mob Attack

There's lots not to like or to get upset about in this article. I'm posting here because I think there are lessons to be learned from this.

http://hamptonroads.com.nyud.net/201...and-brambleton

First takeaways, know the neighborhood you're in, what's around it, and if you're going to be there after dark, know what it's like when the sun goes down. Or unfortunately, just don't go.

People think they have a "right" to go where they want, which is true, but they often wrongly think that thought extends to "I have a right to go where I want, and not have anything bad happen to me." Which unfortunately is not true. I wish the world was like that, but it's not.

Lesson 2: Don't get out of the car.

Lesson 3: 1 vs 100 is not winnable.

Lesson 4: As pointed out in previous threads, people aren't scared of you, especially when they are in a large group.

I don't know if these types of mob attacks are common (doubt it) or growing (possibly), or it's just the "Evening News" effect, where OMG, I saw this on the news it must be happening everywhere! I do see a fair amount of news stories of flash mob store robberies, flash mob beatings in downtown Philly, etc. Dunno. Someone in LEO with more inside scoop could comment.
__________________
Jesus didn't have a stunt double, and neither do you...

кто пукнул здесь?
Nescio, sed foetet.
HKLovingIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 11:22   #2
jeffyjeff
awesome sauce
 
jeffyjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 396
lesson 5: the editor feels this attack wasn't newsworthy.
jeffyjeff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 13:08   #3
HKLovingIT
Resident Evil
 
HKLovingIT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Out On The Tiles
Posts: 4,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffyjeff View Post
lesson 5: the editor feels this attack wasn't newsworthy.

Yes. The two victims are in fact reporters for the paper itself. The paper sat on it for two weeks and then published the story not as a news story but in the opinion section. Disgraceful.
__________________
Jesus didn't have a stunt double, and neither do you...

кто пукнул здесь?
Nescio, sed foetet.
HKLovingIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 13:48   #4
FlCracker70
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by HKLovingIT View Post
Lesson 3: 1 vs 100 is not winnable.
Good post but I disagree with Lesson 3 (although not with Lesson 2)

If you don't get out of the car, you can certainly get out of the situation regardless of the number of people trying to stop you. If I had a choice of having a gun or being in a car, I take the car every time. The car is just too powerful and is very difficult to stop.

Kinda reminds me of a story about my wife almost 10 years ago. She was getting off of the highway and there is a couple hundred feet of not a great strip that is about 3 miles from my home (I live in an urban area). She was with her mother and had two very young children with her. She heard a loud pop and the wheel started to shutter. She knew that the front tire had the back and forth with her mother :

Mother :You had better pull over and check that tire"
Wife :Nope, I'll slow down to 10mph but I'm sure as hell not stopping
Mother : You have to stop
Wife: No I don't
Mother: You will ruin the rim on the car
Wife: I might but that's replaceable, we are not.

If my window is broken by a bystander, I am going to pull away even if there is only one person that I can see. If there are multiple people, stay in the car and get out of dodge!
FlCracker70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 14:59   #5
HKLovingIT
Resident Evil
 
HKLovingIT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Out On The Tiles
Posts: 4,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlCracker70 View Post
Good post but I disagree with Lesson 3 (although not with Lesson 2)

If you don't get out of the car, you can certainly get out of the situation regardless of the number of people trying to stop you. If I had a choice of having a gun or being in a car, I take the car every time. The car is just too powerful and is very difficult to stop.

Kinda reminds me of a story about my wife almost 10 years ago. She was getting off of the highway and there is a couple hundred feet of not a great strip that is about 3 miles from my home (I live in an urban area). She was with her mother and had two very young children with her. She heard a loud pop and the wheel started to shutter. She knew that the front tire had the back and forth with her mother :

Mother :You had better pull over and check that tire"
Wife :Nope, I'll slow down to 10mph but I'm sure as hell not stopping
Mother : You have to stop
Wife: No I don't
Mother: You will ruin the rim on the car
Wife: I might but that's replaceable, we are not.

If my window is broken by a bystander, I am going to pull away even if there is only one person that I can see. If there are multiple people, stay in the car and get out of dodge!
Well I was referring to the male victim who got out of the car to confront the mob/rock thrower and put himself in a 1 vs 100 hands on situation.
__________________
Jesus didn't have a stunt double, and neither do you...

кто пукнул здесь?
Nescio, sed foetet.
HKLovingIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 15:56   #6
Dexters
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: ga
Posts: 4,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by HKLovingIT View Post
Well I was referring to the male victim who got out of the car to confront the mob/rock thrower and put himself in a 1 vs 100 hands on situation.
He was a journalist - he thought he was immune.

'Hey, I'm a liberal journalist, theses guys won't hurt me.'
__________________
Montani Semper Liberi
Dexters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 20:01   #7
Misty02
Senior Member
 
Misty02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by HKLovingIT View Post
There's lots not to like or to get upset about in this article. I'm posting here because I think there are lessons to be learned from this.

http://hamptonroads.com.nyud.net/201...and-brambleton

First takeaways, know the neighborhood you're in, what's around it, and if you're going to be there after dark, know what it's like when the sun goes down. Or unfortunately, just don't go.

People think they have a "right" to go where they want, which is true, but they often wrongly think that thought extends to "I have a right to go where I want, and not have anything bad happen to me." Which unfortunately is not true. I wish the world was like that, but it's not.

Lesson 2: Don't get out of the car.

Lesson 3: 1 vs 100 is not winnable.

Lesson 4: As pointed out in previous threads, people aren't scared of you, especially when they are in a large group.

I don't know if these types of mob attacks are common (doubt it) or growing (possibly), or it's just the "Evening News" effect, where OMG, I saw this on the news it must be happening everywhere! I do see a fair amount of news stories of flash mob store robberies, flash mob beatings in downtown Philly, etc. Dunno. Someone in LEO with more inside scoop could comment.
If you google “mob attacks” “criminal flash mobs” and the like, you’ll find it is not all that uncommon. I did the research some time ago and was a bit surprised none were published for Florida in the past couple of years. A big one happened not long ago at a fair, I think it was one of the “M” states, but I don’t recall exactly.

I read that story before; I couldn’t fathom what the person that got out of the car was thinking. What was the objective? What did he plan to accomplish? Why would anyone get out a vehicle if they know someone is trying to inflict harm? Drive through the mob is you must, getting away from there and to safety would have to be the first and main objective.

I just did the search again and found this: http://violentflashmobs.com/ and FL seems to have joined the other states: http://cofcc.org/2012/04/mob-attacks...ltona-florida/, there are several other stories as well now.

.



.
__________________


"In making tactical dispositions, the highest pitch you can attain is to conceal them." - Sun Tzu

Outpost Member #69
Misty02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 05:38   #8
unit1069
Senior Member
 
unit1069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: So. Central US
Posts: 8,437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty02 View Post
If you google “mob attacks” “criminal flash mobs” and the like, you’ll find it is not all that uncommon. I did the research some time ago and was a bit surprised none were published for Florida in the past couple of years. A big one happened not long ago at a fair, I think it was one of the “M” states, but I don’t recall exactly.
Wisconsin State Fair
__________________
Rocket Scientist
unit1069 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 13:27   #9
xenophon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: WI
Posts: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by unit1069 View Post
Yes, definitely not expected on that one. Never in a million years would have thought something like that would have happened at that fair. But it did, and the response was slow. Decent part of town too.
xenophon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 16:05   #10
jeffyjeff
awesome sauce
 
jeffyjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 396
happened here in iowa a couple years ago as well.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documen...owa-state-fair

of course iowa state fairgrounds are off limits for carrying. i haven't gone since the mid 90s.

Last edited by jeffyjeff; 05-04-2012 at 16:07..
jeffyjeff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 16:15   #11
mortpes
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 592
People in a group will act out far more than a single individual even to the extent not characteristic of their individual nature.
mortpes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 19:12   #12
Bruce M
Senior Member
 
Bruce M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: S FL
Posts: 20,031
I'd try to avoid bad neighborhoods and I would especially try to avoid groups in or near bad neighborhoods, and probably about anywhere.
__________________
Bruce
I never talked to anyone who had to fire their gun who said "I wished I had the smaller gun and fewer rounds with me" Just because you find a hundred people who agree with you on the internet does not mean you're right.
Bruce M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 06:38   #13
dwhite53
Senior Member
 
dwhite53's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Central North Carolina
Posts: 1,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlCracker70 View Post
If my window is broken by a bystander, I am going to pull away even if there is only one person that I can see. If there are multiple people, stay in the car and get out of dodge!
As these people were reporters chances are they were educated in some left ist leaning university which left them with the idea that their attackers, being just downtrodden abused people, could simply be reasoned with.

What's the saying about "a liberal is a conservative that hasn't been victimized yet"? I'll bet these two re-think their world view now.

All the Best,
D. white

Last edited by dwhite53; 05-05-2012 at 06:39..
dwhite53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 06:55   #14
Dexters
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: ga
Posts: 4,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwhite53 View Post
as these people were reporters chances are they were educated in some left ist leaning university which left them with the idea that their attackers, being just downtrodden abused people, could simply be reasoned with.

What's the saying about "a liberal is a conservative that hasn't been victimized yet"? I'll bet these two re-think their world view now.

All the best,
d. White
+1...
__________________
Montani Semper Liberi
Dexters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 07:36   #15
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 33,434
Two liberals got attacked. Maybe they'll be less liberal in the future, but I'm betting the attack wouldn't have happened but for their views.

They would never think something racist, like going to the Attucks theater and driving through low income, predominantly minority neighborhoods is dangerous.

They would never "profile" members of a minority group and assume they might be attacked because of their race.

They would never be prepared to defend themselves in such an attack.

It's fine to be angry at the press, attackers, etc., but I have very little sympathy for people who get themselves into trouble by ignoring the obvious.
__________________
Open carry activists are to gun rights what the Westboro Baptist Church is to free speech.

Last edited by Bren; 05-05-2012 at 07:45..
Bren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 08:40   #16
Misty02
Senior Member
 
Misty02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by unit1069 View Post
Oops, not an M state but a W state. My memory has gone upside down!

We discussed that one at home when it happened to review the possible ways to get out of that mess. None of it was pretty, to say the least.


.
__________________


"In making tactical dispositions, the highest pitch you can attain is to conceal them." - Sun Tzu

Outpost Member #69
Misty02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 08:51   #17
Misty02
Senior Member
 
Misty02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwhite53 View Post
As these people were reporters chances are they were educated in some left ist leaning university which left them with the idea that their attackers, being just downtrodden abused people, could simply be reasoned with.

What's the saying about "a liberal is a conservative that hasn't been victimized yet"? I'll bet these two re-think their world view now.

All the Best,
D. white
I’ve read/heard something similar before but it’s difficult to accept that kind of reasoning. Every animal in the world, including humans, has survival instincts ingrained in them. How is it possible to condition that out of a person?

I understand people fighting their ingrained instinct to get a job done but they do it when they are prepared and trained for that job and usually when they have the back-up of others on site to achieve their goals. Two individuals against a mob? I can think of nothing but plowing through them to safety.


.
__________________


"In making tactical dispositions, the highest pitch you can attain is to conceal them." - Sun Tzu

Outpost Member #69
Misty02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 09:42   #18
dosei
Senior Member
 
dosei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty02 View Post
I’ve read/heard something similar before but it’s difficult to accept that kind of reasoning. Every animal in the world, including humans, has survival instincts ingrained in them. How is it possible to condition that out of a person?
It isn't possible. But it is possible for people to have vastly different perceptions of just what constitutes danger. The perception of danger is one of the key triggers for the "fight or flight" survival instinct. So when a person's perspective (which is very easily conditioned) does not register "danger", their "survival instinct" is irrelevant.
__________________
Big Dawg No. 1431
Carolina Glocker No. 1431
"Freedom is a system based on courage" (Charles Peguy)
"Know where the attack against you is likely to come, whether on the street or in court, and have a proven counter already in place" (Mas Ayoob)
dosei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 10:47   #19
Dexters
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: ga
Posts: 4,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty02 View Post
I’ve read/heard something similar before but it’s difficult to accept that kind of reasoning. Every animal in the world, including humans, has survival instincts ingrained in them. How is it possible to condition that out of a person?

.
That is just what a 'Liberal' education does "From each according to ability to each according to need."
__________________
Montani Semper Liberi
Dexters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 18:16   #20
Misty02
Senior Member
 
Misty02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by dosei View Post
It isn't possible. But it is possible for people to have vastly different perceptions of just what constitutes danger. The perception of danger is one of the key triggers for the "fight or flight" survival instinct. So when a person's perspective (which is very easily conditioned) does not register "danger", their "survival instinct" is irrelevant.
In theory that makes sense. I just don’t know how anyone would not see danger from a 100 person mob when one throws a rock at you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexters View Post
That is just what a 'Liberal' education does "From each according to ability to each according to need."
I really dislike that quote.


.
__________________


"In making tactical dispositions, the highest pitch you can attain is to conceal them." - Sun Tzu

Outpost Member #69
Misty02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 18:30   #21
jdavionic
NRA Member
 
jdavionic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 11,819
So you pull up in crowd of 100 people, someone within the 100 throws a rock at your window, and you get out to confront them. Wow...what shock this didn't work out for him.

When I was a kid, I had to drive through a very rough area to get to work. This was over 30 yrs ago. Somehow I had enough common sense to know you don't get out of the vehicle to confront people that harrass you in an area where you're outnumbered and unwanted...and that was often tested.
__________________
- JD

"No matter how bad it gets, if you're still alive it's just another bad day."
jdavionic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 18:32   #22
jdavionic
NRA Member
 
jdavionic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 11,819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty02 View Post
In theory that makes sense. I just don’t know how anyone would not see danger from a 100 person mob when one throws a rock at you.
Pretty much the point of my post above. Common sense can be quite challenging for some folks.
__________________
- JD

"No matter how bad it gets, if you're still alive it's just another bad day."
jdavionic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 18:40   #23
JK-linux
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,655
.....

Last edited by JK-linux; 05-21-2012 at 18:44..
JK-linux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 18:42   #24
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 33,434
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdavionic View Post
So you pull up in crowd of 100 people, someone within the 100 throws a rock at your window, and you get out to confront them. Wow...what shock this didn't work out for him.

When I was a kid, I had to drive through a very rough area to get to work. This was over 30 yrs ago. Somehow I had enough common sense to know you don't get out of the vehicle to confront people that harrass you in an area where you're outnumbered and unwanted...and that was often tested.
That's because you recognize, when you get out of the car in that area, that people will side against you, based on race, ethnicity, income, or whatever makes them different from you.

Liberals are required to pretend that isn't true, to the point that some of them probably believe it.
__________________
Open carry activists are to gun rights what the Westboro Baptist Church is to free speech.

Last edited by Bren; 05-05-2012 at 21:15..
Bren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2012, 08:30   #25
steveksux
Massive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
That's because you recognize, when you get out of the car in that area, that people will side against you, based on race, ethnicity, income, or whatever makes them different from you.

Liberals are required to pretend that isn't true, to the point that some of them probably believe it.
Possible...

I think its more basic than that. Its the classic mistake many people make on both sides, assuming that the world works like you think it should work, rather than the way it does work.

Randy

Last edited by steveksux; 05-06-2012 at 08:30..
steveksux is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 18:27.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,232
408 Members
824 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42