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Old 05-06-2012, 12:40   #26
FLIPPER 348
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...ok, the better 1/2 and I just have a lovely walk up the butte and in a few hours a few of the boyz are coming over. We will be heading out into the desert with some guns and beer for some magnum therapy. The theme today is .357s, rifles/pistols. Some of us will be voting for Mittens, some will vote for President Obama and politics will be discussed.
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Old 05-06-2012, 12:51   #27
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...ok, the better 1/2 and I just have a lovely walk up the butte and in a few hours a few of the boyz are coming over. We will be heading out into the desert with some guns and beer for some magnum therapy. The theme today is .357s, rifles/pistols. Some of us will be voting for Mittens, some will vote for President Obama and politics will be discussed.
I'm sure it will be fascinating.
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Old 05-06-2012, 15:12   #28
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For the record one does not see the equivalent of tea party protesters or occupy protesters in the streets of Canada. Recon why?
Back in the days of the original Tea Party, those who wanted the Government Protection provided by England fled to Canada. They were called United Empire Loyalists. Canadians are descended from this stock. Their Ancestors are those who would rather live under Big Brothers protection than as Free Men.
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Old 05-06-2012, 19:04   #29
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Back in the days of the original Tea Party, those who wanted the Government Protection provided by England fled to Canada. They were called United Empire Loyalists. Canadians are descended from this stock. Their Ancestors are those who would rather live under Big Brothers protection than as Free Men.
Odd. Thought this discussion was about taxes. Didn't know it was just a emotional exchange of opinions on the American Revolution. But, lacking a good answer, perhaps trying to divert attention will allow one to avoid that little problem.
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Old 05-06-2012, 19:15   #30
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Non sequitur. The issue is Canadians being taxed a rather large (and increasing) portion of their income. You bring up a bit of economic theory. You might as well comment on the doneness of a steak.
The whinning about taxes is inseparable from discussion of the economy. Like it or not, that's just the way it is. As to steaks... I like mine grilled... medium well thank you.
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Old 05-06-2012, 21:08   #31
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The whinning about taxes is inseparable from discussion of the economy. Like it or not, that's just the way it is. As to steaks... I like mine grilled... medium well thank you.
Whining about taxes is inseparable from the economy? WTH? Maybe in your world.
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Old 05-06-2012, 21:35   #32
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Odd. Thought this discussion was about taxes. Didn't know it was just a emotional exchange of opinions on the American Revolution. But, lacking a good answer, perhaps trying to divert attention will allow one to avoid that little problem.
Brucev, my boy, you're the one who wanted to talk about the "Tea Party".
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Old 05-07-2012, 06:51   #33
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I supported Obama over the options but I am no Liberal or Democrat. Getting us out of Iraq was more important than 4-8 years of McCain/Palin.


Seeing the current option I will proudly do so again.
so...hows that war thingy working out for ya? still got 4 more years of wars and started some new ones too.
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Old 05-07-2012, 06:54   #34
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...ok, the better 1/2 and I just have a lovely walk up the butte and in a few hours a few of the boyz are coming over. We will be heading out into the desert with some guns and beer for some magnum therapy. The theme today is .357s, rifles/pistols. Some of us will be voting for Mittens, some will vote for President Obama and politics will be discussed.
if either mittens or barry have their way...your guns will be taken and you'll become camp fed members.
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Old 05-07-2012, 07:21   #35
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No, I deal with actual Canadians, many of them for many years. None I have met have any negative issues with their healthcare system.
What abut the ones you never got a chance to meet, Because they are dead?
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:07   #36
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Odd. Thought this discussion was about taxes. Didn't know it was just a emotional exchange of opinions on the American Revolution. But, lacking a good answer, perhaps trying to divert attention will allow one to avoid that little problem.
It seems from the title it is about Canadians and taxes.

And, the fact that Canadians are more like Democrats than Republicans, probably does make Canada look like utopia to Democrats.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:43   #37
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It seems from the title it is about Canadians and taxes.

And, the fact that Canadians are more like Democrats than Republicans, probably does make Canada look like utopia to Democrats.
If by this logic demokrats are more like Canadians so that Canada is utopia, then it would follow that republicans are more like the Russians so that post soviet Russia is utopia.

Actually the simple fact is that the economy of Canada is in better shape for the same period of time examined than the economy of the U.S. Now this is problematic for those who want to insist that capitalism unrestrained is the best producer of the broadest good as Canada has a less capitalistic more socialistic structure, yet has produced that very broader good that would not be expected... if trickle down voodoo really worked.

If the true believers of whatever stripe don't like this, well, it is a lump they'll just have to accept. It is reality. And actual experience with reality trumps theory every time. Don't agree. Fine. Demonstrate a unrestrained capitalist system that has produced broad good for the citizens of a nation apart from anyone tweaking the system (i.e., nasty little aspect of socialism). Don't complain that such unrestrained capitalism has never been allowed to work on its own, that it's always been hindered, etc. by whatever or whomever. Those are the same excuses socialist make. Because reality is that unrestrained capitalism will never do anything more than create opportunity for those who have money and perpetual nothing for those who do not. And reality is that absolute socialism crushes any individual initiative, etc. About the best that can be done is a managed capitalism in which the interest of the broad majority are determinative rather than the interest of the narrow few.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:08   #38
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Actually, if you look at the value you get from the amount of taxes you pay, Canada looks better than the US.

The US has extremely high taxes for the relatively low level of services the average person can expect from the government.

Not saying that the government should be providing more services, but we have the worst of both worlds here: high taxes and low service.

I would prefer a low tax/low service government. But it's hard to argue that a high tax/low service government is better than a high tax/high service government like Canada's.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:15   #39
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Don't complain that such unrestrained capitalism has never been allowed to work on its own, that it's always been hindered, etc. by whatever or whomever. Those are the same excuses socialist make.
That's an important point. A system's adherents always claim that if the system was allowed to work like it's "supposed" to, it'd be just great. Well guess what? All the corruption that makes its way into the system is invited by that system. The system is in fact flawed by encouraging and allowing for that corruption.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:16   #40
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If by this logic demokrats are more like Canadians so that Canada is utopia, then it would follow that republicans are more like the Russians so that post soviet Russia is utopia.
That's your logic? That Russia is more like Republican doctrine than DNC doctrine? Okay, I'll try and fit that square peg into the round hole.

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Actually the simple fact is that the economy of Canada is in better shape for the same period of time examined than the economy of the U.S. Now this is problematic for those who want to insist that capitalism unrestrained is the best producer of the broadest good as Canada has a less capitalistic more socialistic structure, yet has produced that very broader good that would not be expected... if trickle down voodoo really worked.

If the true believers of whatever stripe don't like this, well, it is a lump they'll just have to accept. It is reality. And actual experience with reality trumps theory every time. Don't agree. Fine. Demonstrate a unrestrained capitalist system that has produced broad good for the citizens of a nation apart from anyone tweaking the system (i.e., nasty little aspect of socialism). Don't complain that such unrestrained capitalism has never been allowed to work on its own, that it's always been hindered, etc. by whatever or whomever. Those are the same excuses socialist make. Because reality is that unrestrained capitalism will never do anything more than create opportunity for those who have money and perpetual nothing for those who do not. And reality is that absolute socialism crushes any individual initiative, etc. About the best that can be done is a managed capitalism in which the interest of the broad majority are determinative rather than the interest of the narrow few.
Thank you for reminding us, that socialists do walk among us, (and, that you really don't want to be identied as such). And, that you do believe.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:28   #41
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Back in the days of the original Tea Party, those who wanted the Government Protection provided by England fled to Canada. They were called United Empire Loyalists. Canadians are descended from this stock. Their Ancestors are those who would rather live under Big Brothers protection than as Free Men.
I guess by that logic, the people who now live in Massachusetts are the truest patriots of all, their ancestors being the ones who got the ball rolling.

Do we want the rest of America to be more like Massachusetts?

Oh, right. We want Romney as prez. I guess there's my answer.

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Old 05-07-2012, 11:00   #42
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so...hows that war thingy working out for ya? still got 4 more years of wars and started some new ones too.
I don't recall any he started but we are out of Iraq IAW with the timeline. And we will get out of Afghanistan. That would never have happened with McCain. Did you see how upset he was when President Obama brought our troops home??
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:04   #43
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I'm sure it will be fascinating.
It was fun. And we cleaned up after ourselves unlike the Obama hating rednecks who shoot out on the BLM and leave all their 'targets' (trash) behind.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:10   #44
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Explain why this is a problem?
Uhhhh...because they pay 50%..HALF of their pay into taxes. That's enough reason in itself????
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:26   #45
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It was fun. And we cleaned up after ourselves unlike the Obama hating rednecks who shoot out on the BLM and leave all their 'targets' (trash) behind.
Another example of a malfunctioning cause and effect processor.

Do you remember the pictures of the national mall after the inauguration of Barry and Becks rally?

Littering is not a desirable trait, and it is not only attributable to the left or the right.

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Old 05-07-2012, 11:31   #46
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Uhhhh...because they pay 50%..HALF of their pay into taxes. That's enough reason in itself????
Depends. Once the average American family adds up their taxes, healthcare costs (insurance premiums + copays + deductibles), and post-secondary education expenses, they're not really paying any less than Canadians are.

In Canada, if you're healthy and don't go to college, you get screwed a little bit. If you're overeducated and always sick, you "luck out". For the average family, it's pretty much a wash. They're really not paying more than their American counterpart.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:34   #47
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Littering is not a desirable trait, and it is not only attributable to the left or the right.
It is 'attributable' out in the woods/desert 'round here, I've seen and shot with them. It's not the Obama voters who are leaving shot-up TVs out there!
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:54   #48
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It is 'attributable' out in the woods/desert 'round here, I've seen and shot with them. It's not the Obama voters who are leaving shot-up TVs out there!
And you've tracked down all of the owners of each of these shot up televisions and pinned them down on their political philosophy.

I think that you are displaying prejudice, and your willingness to assume, if not an intentional untruth.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:06   #49
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Actually, if you look at the value you get from the amount of taxes you pay, Canada looks better than the US.

The US has extremely high taxes for the relatively low level of services the average person can expect from the government.

Not saying that the government should be providing more services, but we have the worst of both worlds here: high taxes and low service.

I would prefer a low tax/low service government. But it's hard to argue that a high tax/low service government is better than a high tax/high service government like Canada's.
Bingo! Exactly right.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:20   #50
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That's your logic? That Russia is more like Republican doctrine than DNC doctrine? Okay, I'll try and fit that square peg into the round hole.

Are you dense? Come now. You can do better than that. Like it or not, the comparison is apt. Specifically it is as "logical" to equate a demokrats with a Canadian economic model as to equate republicans with the current post-soviet Russian economic model. And... the comparison is even more pointed and apt when one compares the wall street wingtip ganstas and the symbiotic relationship with congress with the equivalent criminals in russia operating under the gaze of the benign putin.

Thank you for reminding us, that socialists do walk among us, (and, that you really don't want to be identied as such). And, that you do believe. Reality bites. Deal with it. You and ever other citizen of the U.S. live in the reality of a managed economy, not a pure unrestrained capitalism. That is real life. Idealist can whine all they want to. But they have to live with reality.
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