[barbedwiresmile]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/07...arp-criticism/

Thoughts?

[CAcop]

Terry stop. Google.

[Stang_Man]

Originally Posted by CAcop

Terry stop. Google.

To be fair, what they're doing doesn't seem to fully fit the bill.

For a Terry stop you need to:

Identify some activity that is out of the ordinary is occuring/has occured

The suspect is connected with said suspicious activity

And that the suspicious activity is related to a crime.

Without being in NY and witnessing their "Stop and Frisk" in person, it's hard to armchair quarterback. I guess you could really stretch just about anything to fit that criteria, but I wouldn't want to hang my career on that. Everyone's definition of "reasonable suspicion" is different as well, which is all you really need here.

[snerd]

Originally Posted by CAcop

Terry stop. Google.

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7073895/terry-stop

[seanmac45]

Ex NYPD here;

Conducted THOUSANDS of Stop Question and Frisks

Those lead to hundreds of arrests

Subjected to dozens of Mapp hearings

Never lost one

Article states "random" frisks are being conducted

Author should get off his ass, go out on the street with the cops and see what's what

NO ONE is jeopardizing his career by going out and tossing the public without justification

[seanmac45]

One Mapp hearing in particular stands out in my mind because I never spoke a word;

Get sworn in.

First question by defense counsel; "Lieutenant, why did you stop my client on the night of ______ __ 19__?

I opened my folder and handed out three packets of stapled paper, one each to the judge, defense counsel and prosecutor.

Each package contained a copy of the SEVENTEEN previous arrest reports for the same defendant, ALL for possession with intent to sell. FIFTEEN of which were in the same building courtyard that he was collared in on the present case. Vital entries highlighted (peigree, charges, and locations).

Defense counsel begins gagging and fighting for air.

Prosecutor is looking worried.

Judge is trying to suppress a giggle.

Short recess was called for the defense counsel to compose himself.

Upon going back on the record the Judge stated I was dismissed and the evidence was admitted.

Prosecutor warned me never to try that crap again.

Perp took the plea before trial.


Stop, Question and Frisk, it's good for the soul.

[Stang_Man]

Originally Posted by seanmac45

One Mapp hearing in particular stands out in my mind because I never spoke a word;

Get sworn in.

First question by defense counsel; "Lieutenant, why did you stop my client on the night of ______ __ 19__?

I opened my folder and handed out three packets of stapled paper, one each to the judge, defense counsel and prosecutor.

Each package contained a copy of the SEVENTEEN previous arrest reports for the same defendant, ALL for possession with intent to sell. FIFTEEN of which were in the same building courtyard that he was collared in on the present case. Vital entries highlighted (peigree, charges, and locations).

Defense counsel begins gagging and fighting for air.

Prosecutor is looking worried.

Judge is trying to suppress a giggle.

Short recess was called for the defense counsel to compose himself.

Upon going back on the record the Judge stated I was dismissed and the evidence was admitted.

Prosecutor warned me never to try that crap again.

Perp took the plea before trial.


Stop, Question and Frisk, it's good for the soul.

Glad it worked out for you, but I was under the ass-umption that you couldn't use criminal history or prior arrests as PC, does that not work for reasonable suspicion?

Don't worry, I agree he was likely a turd, and still is to this day- and I also don't think it takes any stretch of the imagination to get the bracelets on someone like that

[seanmac45]

It was a risk, but I knew the Judge well.

I never did try that again but it sure was enjoyable to get away with it once...........

[Stang_Man]

Originally Posted by seanmac45

It was a risk, but I knew the Judge well.

I never did try that again but it sure was enjoyable to get away with it once...........

Thats awesome!

I'm sure if you observed him long enough, he would have easily given you an in. Criminals, not the brightest in the bunch.

Good work!

[lancesorbenson]

Originally Posted by Arron L

Thats awesome!

I'm sure if you observed him long enough, he would have easily given you an in. Criminals, not the brightest in the bunch.

Good work!

The smart ones don't sell drugs on street corners. They peddle influence in D.C.

[Ruble Noon]

Originally Posted by lancesorbenson

The smart ones don't sell drugs on street corners. They peddle influence in D.C.

Or peddle drugs for the government.

[G-19]

Originally Posted by Ruble Noon

Or peddle drugs for the government.

Do you really believe that? Do you also believe 911 was an inside job?

[Ruble Noon]

Originally Posted by G-19

Do you really believe that? Do you also believe 911 was an inside job?

AFGHANISTAN : THE WAR WE WERE MEANT TO LOSE! - YouTube

AFGHANISTAN : THE WAR WE WERE MEANT TO LOSE! - YouTube

[Snaps]

Papers!!!!!

[The Machinist]

Great video, Ruble.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

From the article: “We had 800 guns removed from the streets last year. Do you know how many lives that saves?” I am waiting for Councilman Vallone to give us that answer. Perhaps he can dig into his statistical hat and pull out a magic extrapolating rabbit.

Former NYC resident here. Giuliani was bad enough with his authoritarian micromanaging, but Bloomberg takes it to new heights with his military fantasies. He said that “his” police department is the seventh largest army in the world. I hope I can go to his office and play fort too.

It must be really fun to ignore basic law enforcement techniques while you play with new fangled computer technology and cool military equipment. The sharp rise in harassment with the little return simply amounts to more slothfulness. We have seen it on our roads, and now you can’t even walk down the street and mind your own business.

From the article: “’Stop and Frisks are a necessary evil,’ said Ed Mullins, president of the Sergeants Benevolent Association, an NYPD union. ‘A lot of times it’s hard for the general public to understand.’”
Perhaps it’s actually difficult for Sergeant Mullins to understand how traditionally insulated government workers like him, with the double protection of a union, are now being exposed and protested. Mullins might be interested in knowing that actually doing his job and finding criminals might resonate with our pea-sized brains.


Now, it’s Sunday, so I am going over to see what’s cookin’ at the mosque. I went to the tanning booth this week, so my skin look really CARE-uh-mel. Some disagree with shaving, but where has our common sense gone? I keep telling those boys that the beards are overkill, but what are you going to do?

[Oso]

Originally Posted by seanmac45

Ex NYPD here;

Conducted THOUSANDS of Stop Question and Frisks

Those lead to hundreds of arrests

Subjected to dozens of Mapp hearings

Never lost one

Article states "random" frisks are being conducted

Author should get off his ass, go out on the street with the cops and see what's what

NO ONE is jeopardizing his career by going out and tossing the public without justification

So, the searches in the article ONLY happen when you have probable cause? That's a relief.

[Oso]

Originally Posted by seanmac45

Prosecutor warned me never to try that crap again.

So it was justifiable, maybe?

[Brucev]

Re: OP. To put it briefly... end it. Period. If the police want to enforce the law, let them first be required to obey the law... not in a way that is convenient to them or that suits them but in a way that strictly meets the COTUS. It is this sort of thing that causes people to be justifiably skeptical of claims by police that they are acting with integrity.

[seanmac45]

Originally Posted by Brucev

Re: OP. To put it briefly... end it. Period. If the police want to enforce the law, let them first be required to obey the law... not in a way that is convenient to them or that suits them but in a way that strictly meets the COTUS. It is this sort of thing that causes people to be justifiably skeptical of claims by police that they are acting with integrity.

Each Stop and Frisk conducted is examined by the Patrol Supervisor, the Desk Officer, the CO or XO, the DA's involved with the case, as well as a unit at 1 PP whose sole function is to review Stop and Frisk reports with an eye towards uncovering procedural errors and outright abuse.

So when you question the integrity of the people and the process, know that you are swiping at more than just the cop on the street.


We act within the boundaries delineated by;

The Constitution of the United States of America

The NYS Penal Law

The NYS Criminal Procedure Law

Case Law established by the NYS Supreme Court

Case Law established by the US Supreme Court


If you are dissatisfied with the way we work, and the way the law is written take it up with them.

Have a good one, cousin brucie.

[LoadToadBoss]

So let me get this straight in my mind:

NYC LEOs can randomly stop people on the streets, ask them who they are and what their doing, and then search their persons and property without a warrant?

What happens if someone refuses to stop and talk? What happens if someone refuses to consent to a search? Does that become probable cause to cuff 'em and stuff 'em? Or are folk targeted who look less likely to be able to afford a lawyer?

It's really an honest question. I live in the free state of Louisiana. I can't imagine that happening anywhere here outside of (let's say) NOLA or Baton Rouge. And even there, the citizens would be in a uproar. All it would take is one news reporter to get stopped and all hell would break loose.

The article talks about how the stops are supposed to be "Random." But, are they random in same way as the TSA pad-downs are random? Are old ladies and crippled children stopped and risked for illegal substances or contraband?

[DonGlock26]

Originally Posted by Arron L

Glad it worked out for you, but I was under the ass-umption that you couldn't use criminal history or prior arrests as PC, does that not work for reasonable suspicion?

You can't use a prior criminal conviction in court in general, but if you know a convicted child molester is hanging out at the kiddie pool by himself, that certainly becomes part of reasonable suspicion that some crime is about to happen.



_

[Stang_Man]

Originally Posted by DonGlock26

You can't use a prior criminal conviction in court in general, but if you know a convicted child molester is hanging out at the kiddie pool by himself, that certainly becomes part of reasonable suspicion that some crime is about to happen.



_

That's a very good point!

[Brucev]

[QUOTE=seanmac45;18960452]Each Stop and Frisk conducted is examined by the Patrol Supervisor, the Desk Officer, the CO or XO, the DA's involved with the case, as well as a unit at 1 PP whose sole function is to review Stop and Frisk reports with an eye towards uncovering procedural errors and outright abuse. Glad to read that there is some restraint of what can only charitably be termed a problematic restriction of Constitutional rights of the individual by the state. In this case, it is like inmates in a prison being in charge of deciding if a corrections officer has been assaulted, etc. It simply is not believable.

So when you question the integrity of the people and the process, know that you are swiping at more than just the cop on the street. When and if I do so, I do so as is my right as a citizen. No function or functionary of govt. is beyond suspicion or criticism. It is the better part of good citizenship to hold in extreme skepticism the actions of both institutions and those who have a vested interest in those institutions.


We act within the boundaries delineated by;

The Constitution of the United States of America

The NYS Penal Law

The NYS Criminal Procedure Law

Case Law established by the NYS Supreme Court

Case Law established by the US Supreme Court.

Not at all impressed with NYC anything. I've been in and through NYC a good many times. Like anywhere else, it has its good and bad points. When it comes to policework, etc. it probably has its good and bad points. Hopefully there is more good than bad. Abuse of plainly stated and understood civil rights qualified by the excuse of police work is a glaring bad mark on a historically spotty record.

As to the sc, they've routinely gotten things wrong... that later were revisited and fixed. From Dred Scott to Heller, etc. lots of errors have been fixed. This is just an error that will have to be fixed.

If you are dissatisfied with the way we work, and the way the law is written take it up with them. It would appear that by the preceding brief post, that dissatisfaction was "taken up."

Have a good one, cousin brucie. Always do. Always do. Never have a bad day. You be sure and have some fun with yourself.

[I0WA]

I think this stop and frisk thing is a bit ridiculous, but blame the laws, and let's get them changed if we're all so offended. The Cops are enlisted to enforce laws, that's their job.

The real criminals here are the politicians that pass the laws that let the cops do these things. I'm sure if the law changed 99.9% of cops would comply.