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Old 05-22-2012, 05:39   #21
emt1581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eracer View Post
I've see too many videos where a LEO is beating some large drunken fool with an ASP, and the fool just stands there and laughs at the cop.
Do you have any links?

Again, I can't speak to ASP's but I've never seen such a thing.

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Old 05-22-2012, 05:40   #22
bdcochran
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For EMT

1. You google the following words: "are asps legal in pennsylvania". Interesting threads on the subject.

2. You think about what people used before the concept of stocking asp dealers came about. Kids tore off radio antennas on cars.

3. Building on item no. 2. Think about getting hit by a car radio antenna. No, it isn't as cool, threatening and impressive as an $80 heavy piece of junk in your hand. However, it is extremely light weight.

4. The best "weapon" is your brain. Everything else is secondary. Bad guys in the hood carry old fashioned razors? Because they shave more frequently than people in the suburbs? Why do Hell's Angels carry 20 ounce ball peen hammers instead of AR15s? Why do the homeless carry sharpened screwdrivers? Why do old folks (I am almost there) carry a simple stick when they take a morning walk?

5. As the prison guard advised, if you carry a baton, spend the time and money to get very skilled. If you don't, someone is probably going to take it away from you.
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Old 05-22-2012, 08:44   #23
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My buddy went toe to toe with an one-legged homeless dude and he used his ASP and he couldn't win the fight with it, so he just ended up kicking the one leg out from under the guy... it was a bad scene.
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Old 05-22-2012, 08:53   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongGun1 View Post
Yes...I have several (expandable batons).

I like them because they are fairly quiet, compact, many applications (non-lethal to lethal), other uses as well.
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Old 05-22-2012, 08:54   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawman800 View Post
My buddy went toe to toe with an one-legged homeless dude and he used his ASP and he couldn't win the fight with it, so he just ended up kicking the one leg out from under the guy... it was a bad scene.


I would love to see that video!!
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Old 05-22-2012, 09:46   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eracer View Post
I've see too many videos where a LEO is beating some large drunken fool with an ASP, and the fool just stands there and laughs at the cop.
Cops have strike rules.In a S/P not so much.'08.
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:31   #27
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As mentioned before - watch legalities carefully. I carried a 21" asp on duty for years and with just a small amount of training (I'm no expert or ninja), it's a far cry from 'junk'.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kirgi08 View Post
Cops have strike rules.In a S/P not so much.'08.
This. Nothing allowable in our policy above the shoulder, which seriously (and intentionally) limits damage done.

Once opened, an asp is just a steel bar (never messed with the aluminum ones). In a full-on, no-rules fight, if a guy can't do some damage with a two-foot steel bar called an asp, then he can't do damage with a two-foot piece of rebar either; and if a guy isn't capable of doing some serious damage with a two-foot piece of rebar, then he's probably about helpless anyway.
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Last edited by quake; 05-22-2012 at 10:32..
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Old 05-22-2012, 11:40   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quake View Post
Once opened, an asp is just a steel bar (never messed with the aluminum ones). In a full-on, no-rules fight, if a guy can't do some damage with a two-foot steel bar called an asp, then he can't do damage with a two-foot piece of rebar either; and if a guy isn't capable of doing some serious damage with a two-foot piece of rebar, then he's probably about helpless anyway.
That's sig material right there....(well, with a little editing to meet the 250 character limit)
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Old 05-22-2012, 11:56   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emt1581 View Post
Anyone have one as a citizen/civilian/non-LEO?

Where does it fit into your preps from EDC all the way to TEOTWAWKI....??

Thanks

-Emt1581
I've got one next to the front door.
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:25   #30
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I keep one in my console to bust out the glass if I'm ever trapped in an accident. No guarantee, but I'd rather have it than not.
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Old 05-22-2012, 13:37   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G29Reload View Post
I keep one in my console to bust out the glass if I'm ever trapped in an accident. No guarantee, but I'd rather have it than not.
It is for that reason I have a ASP glass breaker on mine.

Survival/Preparedness Forum

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Old 05-22-2012, 15:16   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirgi08 View Post
Cops have strike rules.In a S/P not so much.'08.

Exactly!
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Old 05-22-2012, 15:20   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quake View Post
As mentioned before - watch legalities carefully. I carried a 21" asp on duty for years and with just a small amount of training (I'm no expert or ninja), it's a far cry from 'junk'.



This. Nothing allowable in our policy above the shoulder, which seriously (and intentionally) limits damage done.

Once opened, an asp is just a steel bar (never messed with the aluminum ones). In a full-on, no-rules fight, if a guy can't do some damage with a two-foot steel bar called an asp, then he can't do damage with a two-foot piece of rebar either; and if a guy isn't capable of doing some serious damage with a two-foot piece of rebar, then he's probably about helpless anyway.

Good One!!


I was starting to wonder if some here were confusing the ASP..

..with a NERF Baton!


My ASP in a full-on, defense of my life fight has two settings..

..hospital or morgue!
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Last edited by LongGun1; 05-22-2012 at 15:27..
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Old 05-22-2012, 15:42   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emt1581 View Post
I've never carried one. But I do have a cheap one I paid $2 for at a flea market. That thing will break bone!

Saying these things will only cause discomfort makes them sound like toys to me. I can't speak for ASP's but the expandable one I have is good to go....just cheap and no frills.

-Emt1581
Most of the expandable batons are easy to carry around on your duty belt (ie they are light). Remember force=mass*velocity.

Very few of them have the weight of the old school straight sticks.

You will see plenty of videos of officers swinging away with a baton using both hands to swing them because they are so light, you need to swing them really hard. With all the political correctness going on, an officer swinging away using both hands like he is trying to hit a home run looks really bad on video, but it rarely causes any serious injuries.

Saying that there are no off limit strike zones in SP uses, then why even mess with one to begin with. If your going to go straight to wacking someone in the head with one, then why not keep your distance and use a firearm? Seems a lot safer.

I have seen people use the cheap ones, they tend to bend, rust and break or don't stay open.

My baton got very little use compared to spray. You had to get a lot closer and if your using only one hand, I could never generate enough force once it came to striking to make a difference. You may have some ungodly massive arms and be able to swing one a lot harder than I ever could, but something heavier would work better, but then you loose the attraction of the ASP.

Last edited by Pardoner; 05-22-2012 at 15:47..
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Old 05-22-2012, 17:05   #35
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First, before I thread-drift too bad, I really don't see a collapsible baton as a priority for an S&P item. Have one and it's legal for me to carry anywhere in the state, and I don't except when in uniform.

Additionally, another downside to asps that I haven't seen mentioned is that they rattle some; at least mine always has. The shorter, two-segment ones may not, but mine's a three-segment and the center segment free-floats inside when collapsed and does rattle in there somewhat. Not extremely loud, but not silent either.

That said...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pardoner View Post
Most of the expandable batons are easy to carry around on your duty belt (ie they are light). Remember force=mass*velocity.

Very few of them have the weight of the old school straight sticks.
I don't mean to come across as contentious, but they're so close weight-wise that I'm not following this.

My old 21" asp is 19.2 ounces and a 24" straight monadnock polymer weighs 20 oz. The 26" asp is 23.3 oz, and the 26" monadnock straight stick is 21.6 oz. Weight is basically identical between similar lengths of the two different types of baton.

Additionally, the weight of the asp is biased toward the head (striking) end, as the end held in the hand is hollow. With the same overall weight and the balance-point shifted more toward the striking end, the collapsible baton will actually deliver more force on impact for a given velocity.

I carried the asp because it was compact, not because it was light. It may be that you're used to the airweight (aluminum) asps; I never tried those as I always saw them as too light myself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pardoner View Post
Saying that there are no off limit strike zones in SP uses, then why even mess with one to begin with. If your going to go straight to wacking someone in the head with one, then why not keep your distance and use a firearm? Seems a lot safer.
Agree completely.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pardoner View Post
My baton got very little use compared to spray...
I quit carrying spray nearly ten years ago. Not knocking it at all - it works great, but I'm one of those people that it just completely ruins. Some folks can take it, but not me. It tears me up something awful, to the point that it'd be like me using a hand grenade to stop a bad guy in my living room; it'll definitely stop him, but I'm just about as bad off as he is afterward.

I genuinely envy people who aren't torn up as bad by OC as I am, but it's something I just can't take.
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Old 05-22-2012, 17:15   #36
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The asp and baton are tools of control and compliance. Tools of the state. No place in an individual preppers toolbox. Unless of course you were thinking of setting up your own state, complete with regulatory and tax regimes. Then you would need batons and a crew of guys to wield them.
Yeah, ok.....
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Old 05-22-2012, 17:22   #37
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...anyway

They are "nice" to have for a "particular" situation. More than likely, you won't be in that situation. If that makes any sense.

I have used one in the course of business and wasn't impressed. That being said, I took textbook green zone swings and am not that strong. If you hit a red zone, your results will be different.

In our shtf fantasy, if you are at contact distance...things have gone wrong. You will not be able to get it out in time if you are rushed by someone up close....you can tell me you will, but I have been there.
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Old 05-22-2012, 18:56   #38
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Now I just want to buy one to get a closer look at it and swing it to judge for myself.

-Emt1581
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Old 05-22-2012, 19:11   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emt1581 View Post
Now I just want to buy one to get a closer look at it and swing it to judge for myself.

-Emt1581
The re-bar analogy was accurate and if you have it out and ready to rock it is just as effective. I keep mine extended and hanging by the front door because I don't always carry a firearm at home.

Up close away from home I prefer an easily deployable knife as opposed to blunt trauma.

I always carry a knife unless I'm naked but I spend some quality time naked so I like to keep my options open
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Old 05-22-2012, 19:43   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quake View Post
First, before I thread-drift too bad, I really don't see a collapsible baton as a priority for an S&P item. Have one and it's legal for me to carry anywhere in the state, and I don't except when in uniform.

Additionally, another downside to asps that I haven't seen mentioned is that they rattle some; at least mine always has. The shorter, two-segment ones may not, but mine's a three-segment and the center segment free-floats inside when collapsed and does rattle in there somewhat. Not extremely loud, but not silent either.

That said...

I don't mean to come across as contentious, but they're so close weight-wise that I'm not following this.

My old 21" asp is 19.2 ounces and a 24" straight monadnock polymer weighs 20 oz. The 26" asp is 23.3 oz, and the 26" monadnock straight stick is 21.6 oz. Weight is basically identical between similar lengths of the two different types of baton.

I carried the asp because it was compact, not because it was light. It may be that you're used to the airweight (aluminum) asps; I never tried those as I always saw them as too light myself.


I carried the 21" Autolock on my belt. It rattled along with a bunch of other junk that rattled too. I also had easy access to a good wood baton when I figured things might need a thumping.

I guess I never directly compared the weight of the two. I found through experience that all the expandable did was leave welts unless you really went Babe Ruth on someone with it and I tried to avoid that if possible. I even had better results with a mag light when things got crazy.

Now the wood stick put them down when things got rough, in my experience. I even took the expandable off my belt because it never got used and it was one of the first pieces of gear I sold when I got out of the business without looking back.

Buy one if you want for SP, but I do not see any use for them in the civilian world. After carrying and using one for years, I wouldn't even consider buying another. There are too many other items that give you a lot more range and weigh a lot less.

Last edited by Pardoner; 05-22-2012 at 19:45..
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