[kirgi08]

Originally Posted by eracer

I've see too many videos where a LEO is beating some large drunken fool with an ASP, and the fool just stands there and laughs at the cop.

Cops have strike rules.In a S/P not so much.'08.

[quake]

As mentioned before - watch legalities carefully. I carried a 21" asp on duty for years and with just a small amount of training (I'm no expert or ninja), it's a far cry from 'junk'.

Originally Posted by kirgi08

Cops have strike rules.In a S/P not so much.'08.

This. Nothing allowable in our policy above the shoulder, which seriously (and intentionally) limits damage done.

Once opened, an asp is just a steel bar (never messed with the aluminum ones). In a full-on, no-rules fight, if a guy can't do some damage with a two-foot steel bar called an asp, then he can't do damage with a two-foot piece of rebar either; and if a guy isn't capable of doing some serious damage with a two-foot piece of rebar, then he's probably about helpless anyway.

[sebecman]

Originally Posted by quake

Once opened, an asp is just a steel bar (never messed with the aluminum ones). In a full-on, no-rules fight, if a guy can't do some damage with a two-foot steel bar called an asp, then he can't do damage with a two-foot piece of rebar either; and if a guy isn't capable of doing some serious damage with a two-foot piece of rebar, then he's probably about helpless anyway.

That's sig material right there....(well, with a little editing to meet the 250 character limit)

[syntaxerrorsix]

Originally Posted by emt1581

Anyone have one as a citizen/civilian/non-LEO?

Where does it fit into your preps from EDC all the way to TEOTWAWKI....??

Thanks

-Emt1581

I've got one next to the front door.

[G29Reload]

I keep one in my console to bust out the glass if I'm ever trapped in an accident. No guarantee, but I'd rather have it than not.

[Glockdude1]

Originally Posted by G29Reload

I keep one in my console to bust out the glass if I'm ever trapped in an accident. No guarantee, but I'd rather have it than not.

It is for that reason I have a ASP glass breaker on mine.

[LongGun1]

Originally Posted by kirgi08

Cops have strike rules.In a S/P not so much.'08.

Exactly!

[LongGun1]

Originally Posted by quake

As mentioned before - watch legalities carefully. I carried a 21" asp on duty for years and with just a small amount of training (I'm no expert or ninja), it's a far cry from 'junk'.



This. Nothing allowable in our policy above the shoulder, which seriously (and intentionally) limits damage done.

Once opened, an asp is just a steel bar (never messed with the aluminum ones). In a full-on, no-rules fight, if a guy can't do some damage with a two-foot steel bar called an asp, then he can't do damage with a two-foot piece of rebar either; and if a guy isn't capable of doing some serious damage with a two-foot piece of rebar, then he's probably about helpless anyway.

Good One!!


I was starting to wonder if some here were confusing the ASP..

..with a NERF Baton!


My ASP in a full-on, defense of my life fight has two settings..

..hospital or morgue!

[Pardoner]

Originally Posted by emt1581

I've never carried one. But I do have a cheap one I paid $2 for at a flea market. That thing will break bone!

Saying these things will only cause discomfort makes them sound like toys to me. I can't speak for ASP's but the expandable one I have is good to go....just cheap and no frills.

-Emt1581

Most of the expandable batons are easy to carry around on your duty belt (ie they are light). Remember force=mass*velocity.

Very few of them have the weight of the old school straight sticks.

You will see plenty of videos of officers swinging away with a baton using both hands to swing them because they are so light, you need to swing them really hard. With all the political correctness going on, an officer swinging away using both hands like he is trying to hit a home run looks really bad on video, but it rarely causes any serious injuries.

Saying that there are no off limit strike zones in SP uses, then why even mess with one to begin with. If your going to go straight to wacking someone in the head with one, then why not keep your distance and use a firearm? Seems a lot safer.

I have seen people use the cheap ones, they tend to bend, rust and break or don't stay open.

My baton got very little use compared to spray. You had to get a lot closer and if your using only one hand, I could never generate enough force once it came to striking to make a difference. You may have some ungodly massive arms and be able to swing one a lot harder than I ever could, but something heavier would work better, but then you loose the attraction of the ASP.

[quake]

First, before I thread-drift too bad, I really don't see a collapsible baton as a priority for an S&P item. Have one and it's legal for me to carry anywhere in the state, and I don't except when in uniform.

Additionally, another downside to asps that I haven't seen mentioned is that they rattle some; at least mine always has. The shorter, two-segment ones may not, but mine's a three-segment and the center segment free-floats inside when collapsed and does rattle in there somewhat. Not extremely loud, but not silent either.

That said...

Originally Posted by Pardoner

Most of the expandable batons are easy to carry around on your duty belt (ie they are light). Remember force=mass*velocity.

Very few of them have the weight of the old school straight sticks.

I don't mean to come across as contentious, but they're so close weight-wise that I'm not following this.

My old 21" asp is 19.2 ounces and a 24" straight monadnock polymer weighs 20 oz. The 26" asp is 23.3 oz, and the 26" monadnock straight stick is 21.6 oz. Weight is basically identical between similar lengths of the two different types of baton.

Additionally, the weight of the asp is biased toward the head (striking) end, as the end held in the hand is hollow. With the same overall weight and the balance-point shifted more toward the striking end, the collapsible baton will actually deliver more force on impact for a given velocity.

I carried the asp because it was compact, not because it was light. It may be that you're used to the airweight (aluminum) asps; I never tried those as I always saw them as too light myself.

Originally Posted by Pardoner

Saying that there are no off limit strike zones in SP uses, then why even mess with one to begin with. If your going to go straight to wacking someone in the head with one, then why not keep your distance and use a firearm? Seems a lot safer.

Agree completely.

Originally Posted by Pardoner

My baton got very little use compared to spray...

I quit carrying spray nearly ten years ago. Not knocking it at all - it works great, but I'm one of those people that it just completely ruins. Some folks can take it, but not me. It tears me up something awful, to the point that it'd be like me using a hand grenade to stop a bad guy in my living room; it'll definitely stop him, but I'm just about as bad off as he is afterward.

I genuinely envy people who aren't torn up as bad by OC as I am, but it's something I just can't take.

[beatcop]

Originally Posted by barbedwiresmile

The asp and baton are tools of control and compliance. Tools of the state. No place in an individual preppers toolbox. Unless of course you were thinking of setting up your own state, complete with regulatory and tax regimes. Then you would need batons and a crew of guys to wield them.

Yeah, ok.....

[beatcop]

...anyway

They are "nice" to have for a "particular" situation. More than likely, you won't be in that situation. If that makes any sense.

I have used one in the course of business and wasn't impressed. That being said, I took textbook green zone swings and am not that strong. If you hit a red zone, your results will be different.

In our shtf fantasy, if you are at contact distance...things have gone wrong. You will not be able to get it out in time if you are rushed by someone up close....you can tell me you will, but I have been there.

[emt1581]

Now I just want to buy one to get a closer look at it and swing it to judge for myself.

-Emt1581

[syntaxerrorsix]

Originally Posted by emt1581

Now I just want to buy one to get a closer look at it and swing it to judge for myself.

-Emt1581

The re-bar analogy was accurate and if you have it out and ready to rock it is just as effective. I keep mine extended and hanging by the front door because I don't always carry a firearm at home.

Up close away from home I prefer an easily deployable knife as opposed to blunt trauma.

I always carry a knife unless I'm naked but I spend some quality time naked so I like to keep my options open

[Pardoner]

Originally Posted by quake

First, before I thread-drift too bad, I really don't see a collapsible baton as a priority for an S&P item. Have one and it's legal for me to carry anywhere in the state, and I don't except when in uniform.

Additionally, another downside to asps that I haven't seen mentioned is that they rattle some; at least mine always has. The shorter, two-segment ones may not, but mine's a three-segment and the center segment free-floats inside when collapsed and does rattle in there somewhat. Not extremely loud, but not silent either.

That said...

I don't mean to come across as contentious, but they're so close weight-wise that I'm not following this.

My old 21" asp is 19.2 ounces and a 24" straight monadnock polymer weighs 20 oz. The 26" asp is 23.3 oz, and the 26" monadnock straight stick is 21.6 oz. Weight is basically identical between similar lengths of the two different types of baton.

I carried the asp because it was compact, not because it was light. It may be that you're used to the airweight (aluminum) asps; I never tried those as I always saw them as too light myself.

I carried the 21" Autolock on my belt. It rattled along with a bunch of other junk that rattled too. I also had easy access to a good wood baton when I figured things might need a thumping.

I guess I never directly compared the weight of the two. I found through experience that all the expandable did was leave welts unless you really went Babe Ruth on someone with it and I tried to avoid that if possible. I even had better results with a mag light when things got crazy.

Now the wood stick put them down when things got rough, in my experience. I even took the expandable off my belt because it never got used and it was one of the first pieces of gear I sold when I got out of the business without looking back.

Buy one if you want for SP, but I do not see any use for them in the civilian world. After carrying and using one for years, I wouldn't even consider buying another. There are too many other items that give you a lot more range and weigh a lot less.

[AK_Stick]

Originally Posted by emt1581

I wasn't implying anything about playing cop if it came across that way. I was thinking more along the lines of a quiet weapon with the potential to be used to disable or kill (lethal/non-lethal) quietly. It can also be used to gain leverage in certain situations (with objects not people). Good for smashing things (windows, etc.).

Again, just curious what use they may have and if anyone has tucked one away or carries one?

Thanks

-Emt1581

I don't really see anything "quiet" about using an ASP. If you use it right, its generally kinda noisy.


That said, "I" have and see no real use for an ASP in my Survival preps. I have two, and no idea where they are. I got them for work, and I've only ever used on one time.


SD speaking, you can't take an ASP anywhere you can't take a gun, so I don't see much of a real use for it.

[wjv]

I have an ASP, which is illegal to carry here, even with a concealed permit. Have a few other things that are illegal to carry (but not illegal to own).

If it's a major SHTF, I don't think most cops will be yelling: "Hey you with the Mini-14 and the Glock 19. Come over here and let me check you for a switchblade". . . .

[lawman800]

The ASP is a felony here if carried, and a loaded gun is a misdemeanor. Both will get you shot by the cops too if you have one in your hand and present a danger to the cop.

[syntaxerrorsix]

Originally Posted by lawman800

The ASP is a felony here if carried, and a loaded gun is a misdemeanor. Both will get you shot by the cops too if you have one in your hand and present a danger to the cop.

Well that makes perfect sense.

I'm glad I don't live where you do however I suspect cops anywhere will shoot you if you are a danger to them. Not really sure why you thought that was relevant.

ASP's and firearms are legal here and you can carry them concealed with a permit.

[lawman800]

Originally Posted by syntaxerrorsix

Well that makes perfect sense.

I'm glad I don't live where you do however I suspect cops anywhere will shoot you if you are a danger to them. Not really sure why you thought that was relevant.

ASP's and firearms are legal here and you can carry them concealed with a permit.

Okay, let me expand on the thought:

FOR CIVILIANS:

ASP's are illegal to carry, felony to own, and will get you shot as a deadly weapon.

Knives are legal to carry, felony if you conceal a fixed blade knife, cannot be double edged (dirk or dagger), legal to own, and will get you shot as a deadly weapon.

Guns are illegal (misdemeanor) to carry without permit or exemptions, legal to own, and will get you shot as a deadly weapon.

Just trying to show that there is no logic to any of this that while a relatively useless blunt impact weapon is a felony to own and there are no exemptions, a sharp deadly knife is a felony to conceal but can be openly carried without limit, a gun is a misdemeanor without a permit but can be legal to conceal, and all will get you shot by the cops equally.

[Glockdude1]

Originally Posted by lawman800

Okay, let me expand on the thought:

FOR CIVILIANS:

ASP's are illegal to carry, felony to own, and will get you shot as a deadly weapon.

Knives are legal to carry, felony if you conceal a fixed blade knife, cannot be double edged (dirk or dagger), legal to own, and will get you shot as a deadly weapon.

Guns are illegal (misdemeanor) to carry without permit or exemptions, legal to own, and will get you shot as a deadly weapon.

Just trying to show that there is no logic to any of this that while a relatively useless blunt impact weapon is a felony to own and there are no exemptions, a sharp deadly knife is a felony to conceal but can be openly carried without limit, a gun is a misdemeanor without a permit but can be legal to conceal, and all will get you shot by the cops equally.

What state are you in? Just asking.

[Bushflyr]

Originally Posted by lawman800

ASP's are illegal to carry, felony to own, and will get you shot as a deadly weapon.

That's insane. And plenty of people where I am carry big old sticks when they're out walking the dogs. Hickory stick > ASP any day of the week.

[actionshooter10]

ASP (and any other club) is illegal to carry in TX.

[mac66]

I carry one on my bicycle. They are handy at warding off dogs or cars that come too close or idiots who try to jack with you on the trail. Pulled it out a number of times only used it once.

[LongGun1]

Originally Posted by Glockdude1

What state are you in? Just asking.

He lives in the looney left(ist) coast state of California!